European Championships England v Malta/Macedonia

[holdsteady]

Please tell me TAA, Henderson and Gallagher wasn’t the midfield three?! That’s so defensive at home to Malta! I thought England had turned to a 4-2-3-1 much like Oxford play, with Bellingham behind the striker? In his absence surely Foden or Palmer should have played there.

Southgate’s obsession with Henderson is bordering on the psychotic

It is weird, the World Cup and then Henderson moving to Saudi Arabia was the perfect time to move on from a player whose best days are behind him and who is fairly limited anyway. He gets stick for picking Maguire but given the lack of options I get why, picking Henderson, especially for this game is just bizarre.

 

[werthersoriginal]

I just watched the first half, reminded me of our game against Maidenhead? But we did the business against Italy.

 

[yellowbow]

That really was one of the worst games of football I’ve ever seen.

The FA should give a refund to every poor unfortunate soul who bought a ticket and turned up for that.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

That really was one of the worst games of football I’ve ever seen.

The FA should give a refund to every poor unfortunate soul who bought a ticket and turned up for that.

Just back from it, certainly wasn't any better being there although nice to see Bobby Charlton bring respected so well .

 

[Oxford57]

Watched children in need, wanted a bit of entertainment, rather than 90 minutes of dross

 

[unification]

Yet England had qualified with two games to spare, having beaten Italy twice en route.

What did you expect? They only have to play these last two matches because the authorities demand it. They could have allowed them to be walkovers. France drew with Luxembourg at home in their qualifying campaign ahead of winning the World Cup in 2018. Think anyone gave a toss after that? Likewise, Portugal have eased through qualifying but they won’t be lifting the trophy in Germany next summer.

No one will give a monkeys when the Euros begin. In qualifying done is better than perfect.

 

[Foley]

The best part of thr game I saw was a teriffic goal by Declan Rice that was disallowed for offside

As an aside, how did Kane get booked and not have a penalty with VAR there?

 

[Swaby39]

Yet England had qualified with two games to spare, having beaten Italy twice en route.

What did you expect?

The handbrake to come off, for a start, since we play with it permanently on and could do with exploring an extra gear for when we need it (say, losing in a World Cup semi final with 20 mins to go). I’d also have liked to see a bit more rotation than what we got as we learned absolutely nothing from yesterday’s game.

I personally despise Southgate’s management of the squad - though, I’d never go as far as to say he’s failed as that’s far from true.

It annoys me that Kane gets every available minute through Southgate’s fear of dropping him in case we get rumbled. But it blocks the likes of Wilson, Watkins, Toney who may not be on Kane’s level but well-worthy of a good number of England caps. There was no need for Kane to play yesterday, besides boosting his goal tally which should not even be in Southgate’s mind. We know everything there is to know about Kane, Pickford, Maguire, Henderson, Rashford, Tippier etc. Pointless run-out.

His unbearable obsession with a particular clutch of players is what hacks off the majority of England fans as he is not extracting the maximum out of a quite ridiculous generation of players. It’s untapped depth, untapped options to change games. Once plan A (built around Harry Kane) starts to crumble, he hasn’t tried or tested anything else and that’s why he can’t and probably won’t win a tournament.

 

[Marked Ox]

The best part of thr game I saw was a teriffic goal by Declan Rice that was disallowed for offside

As an aside, how did Kane get booked and not have a penalty with VAR there?

The VAR Official was indisposed in the toilet.

 

[yellowbow]

Yet England had qualified with two games to spare, having beaten Italy twice en route.

What did you expect? They only have to play these last two matches because the authorities demand it. They could have allowed them to be walkovers. France drew with Luxembourg at home in their qualifying campaign ahead of winning the World Cup in 2018. Think anyone gave a toss after that? Likewise, Portugal have eased through qualifying but they won’t be lifting the trophy in Germany next summer.

No one will give a monkeys when the Euros begin. In qualifying done is better than perfect.

Wasn’t it mentioned last night that they are still not guaranteed a top seed place? I’m not 100% sure because it was between snoozes…

To be honest I don’t get as excited about any England games like I used to - even tournaments. I’m not sure if it’s anything to do with the ‘possession for possession’s sake’ style of play we’ve adopted or just grumpy old age and being turned off by the overpaid prima donnas that represent us and cynicism for all things ‘elite football’

 

[holdsteady]

Wasn’t it mentioned last night that they are still not guaranteed a top seed place? I’m not 100% sure because it was between snoozes…

To be honest I don’t get as excited about any England games like I used to - even tournaments. I’m not sure if it’s anything to do with the ‘possession for possession’s sake’ style of play we’ve adopted or just grumpy old age and being turned off by the overpaid prima donnas that represent us and cynicism for all things ‘elite football’

We should barring an absolute disaster now be in the top seeds, it would require us to lose to North Macedonia away and both Turkey and Denmark to win away at Wales and Nothern Ireland but also requires an 11 and 12 goal difference swing against us respectively, which obviously isn’t going to happen.

 

[Leysboy]

France already going through, didn’t hold back against a poor team. Ok they had 10 men (Gibraltar) but the French put them to the sword.

Just imagine England winning 14-0 versus poor nations.

 

[Cotswolds Cowboy]

Yet England had qualified with two games to spare, having beaten Italy twice en route.

What did you expect? They only have to play these last two matches because the authorities demand it. They could have allowed them to be walkovers. France drew with Luxembourg at home in their qualifying campaign ahead of winning the World Cup in 2018. Think anyone gave a toss after that? Likewise, Portugal have eased through qualifying but they won’t be lifting the trophy in Germany next summer.

No one will give a monkeys when the Euros begin. In qualifying done is better than perfect.

I was at the game
The first half was stupifying - we went to the bar till half time and watched on the big screens in the concourse
There were huge numbers of young kids there
Maybe the kids tickets were cheaper than usual
I was amazed to see that it was advertised as a sell out for what was a virtually meaningless game

 

[m]

France already going through, didn’t hold back against a poor team. Ok they had 10 men (Gibraltar) but the French put them to the sword.

Just imagine England winning 14-0 versus poor nations.

Yeah, they also drew 0-0 to Luxembourg, before they went on to win the world cup.

You've plucked an irrelevant stat because you don't like Southgate.

 

[yellowbow]

Yeah, they also drew 0-0 to Luxembourg, before they went on to win the world cup.

You've plucked an irrelevant stat because you don't like Southgate.

I don’t really have anything against Southgate. He’s a nice, safe pair of hands. But I think it’s understandable to wonder what a more vibrant, imaginative, less cautious manager could do with this current squad of players?

We’ve been having similar discussions on here regarding Manning’s approach to the game.

Having said all that, I once read an article suggesting that Steve Holland is the man that calls all the tactical shots and Southgate is just the mouthpiece/polished spokesperson

Edit: I know your post wasn’t directed at me m, I just wanted to jump in with my tuppence worth

 

[m]

I don’t really have anything against Southgate. He’s a nice, safe pair of hands. But I think it’s understandable to wonder what a more vibrant, imaginative, less cautious manager could do with this current squad of players?

We’ve been having similar discussions on here regarding Manning’s approach to the game.

Having said all that, I once read an article suggesting that Steve Holland is the man that calls all the tactical shots and Southgate is just the mouthpiece/polished spokesperson

Edit: I know your post wasn’t directed at me m, I just wanted to jump in with my tuppence worth

Ha, no worries!

To pick up on your first point: it's happening again, just like it always does. I find myself being told again that this is one of the best England squads EVER. Just like I have, every few years, over several decades. As usual, it's plainly nonsense, look at the defensive options!

Winning a World Cup or the Euros is hardly ever about just having the best players though. Obviously it helps, but it's just as important that everyone knows what they're doing, that they believe in themselves and eachother, that they really want to win, and that they're a bit lucky.

I think we've looked more likely to win something under Southgate than under any other manager in my lifetime.

 

[yellowbow]

Ha, no worries!

To pick up on your first point: it's happening again, just like it always does. I find myself being told again that this is one of the best England squads EVER. Just like I have, every few years, over several decades. As usual, it's plainly nonsense, look at the defensive options!

Winning a World Cup or the Euros is hardly ever about just having the best players though. Obviously it helps, but it's just as important that everyone knows what they're doing, that they believe in themselves and eachother, that they really want to win, and that they're a bit lucky.

I think we've looked more likely to win something under Southgate than under any other manager in my lifetime.

Yep fair points.

For me though the Euro Final was my moment where I lost patience. Just as with KR when we had a great opportunity against WW at Wembley to finally ‘achieve’ something.

1-0 up against an ageing Italy early on - an Italy who failed to qualify for the following WC - in front of a crowd almost entirely made up of home supporters, and we completely went into our shell, allowed Italy to gain momentum and, ultimately, victory.

I agree, it’s not easy to win silverware, but I’d rather go down fighting than fail through over thinking/analysing and possibly thinking we are tactically cleverer than what we actually are. Which I do wonder if that’s something we (Steve Holland) can be guilty of.

 

[m]

Yep fair points.

For me though the Euro Final was my moment where I lost patience. Just as with KR when we had a great opportunity against WW at Wembley to finally ‘achieve’ something.

1-0 up against an ageing Italy early on - an Italy who failed to qualify for the following WC - in front of a crowd almost entirely made up of home supporters, and we completely went into our shell, allowed Italy to gain momentum and, ultimately, victory.

I agree, it’s not easy to win silverware, but I’d rather go down fighting than fail through over thinking/analysing and possibly thinking we are tactically cleverer than what we actually are. Which I do wonder if that’s something we (Steve Holland) can be guilty of.

Yep. It's hard to imagine a better chance than against that Italian side.

Was the failure tactical, mental or both? Buggered if I know.

 

[tonyw]

To pick up on your first point: it's happening again, just like it always does. I find myself being told again that this is one of the best England squads EVER. Just like I have, every few years, over several decades. As usual, it's plainly nonsense, look at the defensive options!

I was thinking about this.....but is there a case, from an attacking perspective, that this genuinely is the best England squad in a generation?

After all, our striker is absolutely tearing the place to shreds with Bayern Munich (21 goals & 7 assists in 15 Bundesliga/Champions League games!)
And the guy that plays behind him is currently top scorer in La Liga, and is widely being talked about as possibly the best player in the world (and not just by the English!)

We got overexcited by the likes of Owen & Beckham, but they never demolished leagues overseas the way Kane & Bellingham have been doing lately.

With a whole slew of very good Premiership players to play either side of them, and a very capable water carrier to sit behind them in Rice.......I genuinely don't think there's another front six in the world that I would swap for ours (France is the closest.......)

Yeah, the defense is a bit of a mess, particularly in the centre, which is why we're not runaway favourites for the Euros. But we should have as good a chance as anyone.

(not that I think the Malta result has any bearing on this.....because it doesn't. Although still, Jordan Henderson? Really?)

 

[Leysboy]

England 0-1 Macedonia.

Best thing that could have happened. We might see England play some attacking football now.