European Championships England v Malta/Macedonia

[Mad Dog]

I take it you don’t watch much football if you think Saka is s**t.

No I don't really think he's s**t, but it was a perfect opportunity to use my brilliant bit of wordplay, and it was good wordplay, and you know it was, admit it!

 

[tonyw]

Saka is like so many "top level" young players these day, does the odd brilliant thing here and there that makes them look great, and then they're in the England team, but the rest of the time, they don't do much to impress me I'm afraid.

Give me a young up and coming Owen, Rooney or Beckham any day

Saka had 14 goals and 11 assists in the Premier League for Arsenal last year. So 25 total goal contributions.

Beckham never managed more than 11 goals or 22 Gs+As in any single season at any point in his career!

 

[Mad Dog]

Give over - Beckham played in the Premier League when it was basically a higher quality version of the SPL. Noone other than Man U or Arsenal won the PL while he was playing in it, and there was zero chance at the beginning of the season that either of them would fail to finish in the top three, such was their advantage in resources over everyone else.

Complain all you like about Abrahamovic, Sheikh Mansour, Saudi money and the PL TV deal (and I do, often) but the Premier League is vastly more competitive nowadays than it ever was in the late 90s and early 00s when Becks was playing.....

The premier league is a borefest compared to what it was like in those days, both on the pitch and in the stands.

And it's not even an English football league anymore, it's a foreign league, that just so happens to be played in England.

 

[38yearsofpain]

No I don't really think he's s**t, but it was a perfect opportunity to use my brilliant bit of wordplay, and it was good wordplay, and you know it was, admit it!

Don't try that line anywhere near The Emirates, or you make have to take it up the Arsenal.

 

[Mad Dog]

Saka had 14 goals and 11 assists in the Premier League for Arsenal last year. So 25 total goal contributions.

Beckham never managed more than 11 goals or 22 Gs+As in any single season at any point in his career!

That's that then, Saka is better than Beckham....stats

 

[Basham Wonderland]

Give over - Beckham played in the Premier League when it was basically a higher quality version of the SPL. Noone other than Man U or Arsenal won the PL while he was playing in it, and there was zero chance at the beginning of the season that either of them would fail to finish in the top three, such was their advantage in resources over everyone else.

Complain all you like about Abrahamovic, Sheikh Mansour, Saudi money and the PL TV deal (and I do, often) but the Premier League is vastly more competitive nowadays than it ever was in the late 90s and early 00s when Becks was playing.....

This is mental.

Somewhat more athletic, yes.

Vastly more competitive, absolutely not.

There were 4 different English champions in the 90s, 3 different champions in the 00s and 5 different champions in the 10s. No significant uptick in competition, just a lucky season from Leicester differentiates the 10s from the two previous decades.

We all know how slim the chance of Leicester winning the league was.

 

[38yearsofpain]

The premier league is a borefest compared to what it was like in those days, both on the pitch and in the stands.

And it's not even an English football league anymore, it's a foreign league, that just so happens to be played in England.

Interesting viewpoint, it is the most watched league on the planet that doesn't really indicate a borefest. The game has changed in terms of fitness and tactics in that period and has moved more into mainstream entertainment. Like the other world's leading watched sports.
Back in the 1990's hooliganism and racism were still rife, Today more families and females watch football than ever before, the game is now is firmly placed in the global entertainment industry.
I accept it might not be what die hard football fans remember or want, but the games fan base has changed and with it have the value of clubs. As an example in 1989 Man U accepted a £20m bid from Michael Knighton for the club, the Glazers paid £790m in 2005 whilst it is currently valued at £6bn.
That argues the world at large does not think it is a borefest.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

Interesting viewpoint, it is the most watched league on the planet that doesn't really indicate a borefest. The game has changed in terms of fitness and tactics in that period and has moved more into mainstream entertainment. Like the other world's leading watched sports.
Back in the 1990's hooliganism and racism were still rife, Today more families and females watch football than ever before, the game is now is firmly placed in the global entertainment industry.
I accept it might not be what die hard football fans remember or want, but the games fan base has changed and with it have the value of clubs. As an example in 1989 Man U accepted a £20m bid from Michael Knighton for the club, the Glazers paid £790m in 2005 whilst it is currently valued at £6bn.
That argues the world at large does not think it is a borefest.

I suppose the counter to your argument is F1. F1 is now a wildly more lucrative sport than it ever has been in the past, with many more families and women watching than ever before.

You can say with almost 100% certainly, and almost objective authority, that F1 is more boring than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.

Money and families does not make something interesting.

 

[SteMerritt]

I suppose the counter to your argument is F1. F1 is now a wildly more lucrative sport than it ever has been in the past, with many more families and women watching than ever before.

You can say with almost 100% certainly, and almost objective authority, that F1 is more boring than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.

Money and families does not make something interesting.

A point that is spectacularly driven (no pun intended) home if you watch the Brawn GP documentary currently on Disney+. That season had wins for 4 different teams, something that hasn't come close to happening recently.

 

[tonyw]

This is mental.

Somewhat more athletic, yes.

Vastly more competitive, absolutely not.

There were 4 different English champions in the 90s, 3 different champions in the 00s and 5 different champions in the 10s. No significant uptick in competition, just a lucky season from Leicester differentiates the 10s from the two previous decades.

We all know how slim the chance of Leicester winning the league was.

The early 90s - when the Premier League hadn't yet started funneling all the money to a select few - was still a fun and crazy time.
Teams like Palace, Norwich, Forest, Wednesday and Villa managed to finish in the top three, and Leeds and Blackburn actually managed to win the thing.

But then it fell into a pattern. Man U and Arsenal both had a twenty year period where they never finished outside of the Top 4; Chelsea had a decade in the Top 4 after Abrahamovic took over. You just never felt that there was any sense of jeopardy for those top clubs - a terrible season usually still meant Champions League football the following year for those three.

Other than Manchester City, who are so wealthy and so well managed (and/or so good at cheating the system) that they seem to be able to sustain excellence, that's not the case today. The combination of more TV money (that is still spread around relatively evenly, all things considered - as long as you have a seat at the top table) and more foreign wealth means that there's more clubs that are in a position to kick and overtake those big clubs when they have a down year.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that it's a socialist utopia where every team competes on an even keel.......but we're a third of the way through the season, and there's five teams within three points of the lead whilst the biggest spenders (on transfers, at least) are languishing mid-table again.......I don't ever remember either of those things happening in Beckham's era.

 

[38yearsofpain]

I suppose the counter to your argument is F1. F1 is now a wildly more lucrative sport than it ever has been in the past, with many more families and women watching than ever before.

You can say with almost 100% certainly, and almost objective authority, that F1 is more boring than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.

Money and families does not make something interesting.

I understand and accept your viewpoint but people don't watch football, F1, NFL, Basketball or whatever because they find it boring. Everybody has many more choices, they watch because they enjoy it.
It may not be as competitive or enjoyable as we remember it, but to literally billions of people it is entertaining. The sports certainly appeal to a wider audience, it may well be better marketed or suit modern lifestyle or have been made more accessible. But the reality is those sports are more popular worldwide than they were 10,20,30 or 40 years ago.
Whilst us old farts may find them less enjoyable, they have become global successes and the stars are global icons rather than stars of a particular sport.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

After watching that really poor performance last night, it is clear to me that England are not a great side. A good side but not great.
To Labour like that to a side of their limited ability is so telling.
Harry Maguire can count himself extremely fortunate not to have conceded a blatant penalty.
That was a game that perhaps we should have lost.
Southgate needs to wake up because we just looked so disjointed last night.

 

[Mad Dog]

Interesting viewpoint, it is the most watched league on the planet that doesn't really indicate a borefest

Yes but most of the planet is full of morons, who would watch s**t drip down the screen if someone told them it was fashionable.

Plus, the “English” (foreign) premier league is only the most watched league on the planet, because all the other “elite” leagues are even worse and even more boring!

Nowadays it’s just high speed chess with human pieces