National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

[tonyw]

Bit of a balls up from Nige & co. last night, wasn't it?

I mean Plaid Cymru and the Greens elected not to field a candidate because they didn't want to split the Remain vote.
The Brexit Party do field a candidate, do split the Brexit vote, and as a result we've got another Lib Dem MP.

However much BoJo talks - he's still either going to have to get some sort of deal through parliament, or survive a no confidence vote there if he just decides to run out the clock. He's now got one fewer Brexit vote to do that with. And given how close some of the votes were earlier in the year (I think one on indicative votes was even tied) that may be a vote he could really have done with.

That's the problem with fanatics I guess - they don't think pragmatically or strategically.

 

[Marked Ox]

Bit of a balls up from Nige & co. last night, wasn't it?

I mean Plaid Cymru and the Greens elected not to field a candidate because they didn't want to split the Remain vote.
The Brexit Party do field a candidate, do split the Brexit vote, and as a result we've got another Lib Dem MP.

However much BoJo talks - he's still either going to have to get some sort of deal through parliament, or survive a no confidence vote there if he just decides to run out the clock. He's now got one fewer Brexit vote to do that with. And given how close some of the votes were earlier in the year (I think one on indicative votes was even tied) that may be a vote he could really have done with.

That's the problem with fanatics I guess - they don't think pragmatically or strategically.

Johnson isn't fanatic unless you mean about his own ambition.

 

[tonyw]

Johnson isn't fanatic unless you mean about his own ambition.

When I said fanatics, I meant Nige & co.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Farage isn't fanatic unless you mean about his own ambition.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Bit of a balls up from Nige & co. last night, wasn't it?

I mean Plaid Cymru and the Greens elected not to field a candidate because they didn't want to split the Remain vote.
The Brexit Party do field a candidate, do split the Brexit vote, and as a result we've got another Lib Dem MP.

However much BoJo talks - he's still either going to have to get some sort of deal through parliament, or survive a no confidence vote there if he just decides to run out the clock. He's now got one fewer Brexit vote to do that with. And given how close some of the votes were earlier in the year (I think one on indicative votes was even tied) that may be a vote he could really have done with.

That's the problem with fanatics I guess - they don't think pragmatically or strategically.

If Farage is able to get enough votes to affect the outcome of elections, he’s incredibly valuable. Don’t assume he unwittingly split the Brexit vote. He’s merely showing that his sway is enough to have a genuine impact so that he can use it to his advantage down the line.

 

[tonyw]

If Farage is able to get enough votes to affect the outcome of elections, he’s incredibly valuable. Don’t assume he unwittingly split the Brexit vote. He’s merely showing that his sway is enough to have a genuine impact so that he can use it to his advantage down the line.

But surely he's demonstrated this already?
Fear of the votes that UKIP would pick up was what drove Cameron to call the referendum in the first place.
Then the Brexit Party performance in the Peterborough by-election demonstrated to the Tories that, without doubt, the Brexit Party could decimate their vote. And it probably contributed in some way to them putting a Brexiteer in charge.

What exactly are the Brexit Party going to gain by doing it again?
BoJo has already set his stall out unequivocally behind Brexit by Halloween.
All last night's vote has achieved is - for the second time in as many months - putting another Remain, rather than another Brexit, vote in parliament.

If it is indeed a strategy, it's a bad one.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

But surely he's demonstrated this already?
Fear of the votes that UKIP would pick up was what drove Cameron to call the referendum in the first place.
Then the Brexit Party performance in the Peterborough by-election demonstrated to the Tories that, without doubt, the Brexit Party could decimate their vote. And it probably contributed in some way to them putting a Brexiteer in charge.

What exactly are the Brexit Party going to gain by doing it again?
BoJo has already set his stall out unequivocally behind Brexit by Halloween.
All last night's vote has achieved is - for the second time in as many months - putting another Remain, rather than another Brexit, vote in parliament.

If it is indeed a strategy, it's a bad one.

What exactly Farage wants and is after will dictate if this is a bad strategic move or a clever one. Boris’ already bodged majority has now been cut to just one. If Farage wants something, this is yet another shot across the brow that he means business.

He might be an odious toad, but I don’t think Nigel Farage is a stupid man. He will have a reason for this, however despicable or outrageous it might be.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I suspect it's more to do with a game of chicken between Johnson/the Brexiteers and Farage than being a considered strategy.
Watch Johnson offer a 'coalition' to the Farage led loons and a place in the cabinet to Farage if he is forced to call a general election!

 

[PottersRightBoot]

People who vote for,and who run, the Brexit Party are not ‘loons’. They just happen to have a different set of political beliefs to you. I do wish that people used more measured language.

 

[Marked Ox]

People who vote for,and who run, the Brexit Party are not ‘loons’. They just happen to have a different set of political beliefs to you. I do wish that people used more measured language.

Tbf, watching Ann Widdecombe on Euro election night and her rant speech in the European Parliament, she is doing a damn good impression then.

 

[Peterdev]

Nigel Farage has a strategy I’m sure. If there should be an election I’m sure he’ll stand aside at marginal Tory seats but split the Labour vote up north where a pro EU candidate stands.
One way or another the U.K. will leave the EU. The brexit party will probably vanish after we’ve left. UKIP will be gone long before as they couldn’t enough votes to beat Lady Lily The Pink in Wales

 

[Gary Baldi]

Nigel Farage has a strategy I’m sure. If there should be an election I’m sure he’ll stand aside at marginal Tory seats but split the Labour vote up north where a pro EU candidate stands.
One way or another the U.K. will leave the EU. The brexit party will probably vanish after we’ve left. UKIP will be gone long before as they couldn’t enough votes to beat Lady Lily The Pink in Wales

Farage was annoyed at the Tories for standing in the Peterborough buy election, so Brecon was his revenge. A small minded revenge though.

 

[Peterdev]

One that might push Johnson into a pact. I’m sure like all PMs he wants to stay in power beyond the honeymoon period

 

[ZeroTheHero]

People who vote for,and who run, the Brexit Party are not ‘loons’. They just happen to have a different set of political beliefs to you. I do wish that people used more measured language.

The Brexit party are not a political party. As with the previous Farage led vehicle they are a one issue pressure group. They have one uniting political belief, but no other policies. Given that, I think anyone who thinks it might be an idea to vote for them and therefore give them any semblance of power is indeed a 'loon'. And as has been pointed out, anyone listening to Anne Widdecombe (not to mention Trump's best little chum, Farage) might well have that suspicion confirmed. If you don't like the word 'loon' please feel free to substitute with 'unbalanced fanatic'.
You're welcome.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

‘Loon’ indicates mental illness. Poor choice of language.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

You KNOW that the word is never used that way any more. If someone says 'that bloke is a total loon' absolutely nobody thinks he actually means the chap is mentally ill.
HOWEVER - if anyone really is offended by that word then I apologise.
It does not change the sentiment though.

 

[Paul Cannell]

‘Loon’ indicates mental illness. Poor choice of language.

Perhaps Zero means they've been gulled, master.

If so, he's bang on.

 

[Cass63]

All the s**t that’s going on in politics in this country at the moment and you are worried about the word loon, you couldn’t make it up.

 

[Whingit]

Nobody is worried about the word loon, in the same way that nobody who moans about a bit of mess being made when there's a festival or something on cares about the environment.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Perhaps Zero means they've been gulled, master.

If so, he's bang on.

The European Anglophone name "diver" comes from the bird's habit of catching fish by swimming calmly along the surface and then abruptly sinking without trace below the surface plunging into the water. The North American name "loon" likely comes from either the Old English word lumme, meaning lummox or awkward person, or the Scandinavian word lum meaning lame or clumsy. While numbers of common loons remain stable, yellow-billed and red-throated loon numbers appear to be in decline. By contrast, numbers of gammon-faced loons are thought to be on the increase*

*Some, none or all of this is true