National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM
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Essexyellows
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Just a thought regarding the "sensitive" Irish border issue.
We do nothing.
We leave on the 31st.
Its an EU "problem" then.
What are they going to do ? "Build a Wall" ?
We do nothing.
We leave on the 31st.
Its an EU "problem" then.
What are they going to do ? "Build a Wall" ?
RyanioBirdio
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As much as I think Brexit is utterly pointless and crooked, and as mad as a lot of its supporters appear to be, I do admit that I'd like to know the answer to this. Are they going to get every police officer and every military member in the republic to line up across the border the second it all kicks in? Who is building a physical border and installing checkpoints? Why would we put a border in if we turned around and went, "Well, we don't mind people crossing back and forth between the two, so...?"
This does appear to be one of those weird things where it was never really comprehended, and no one ever considered it could or would become an issue, so nobody really has any idea what happens or what it all means. The principle of a member state and a third country is fine, but how do you enforce it in this case? Short of sticking soldiers and man made sandbag and barbed wire blockades on every road (which I assume would be the reality?) how else do you do it? And how do you sell that to people when within a few weeks, let alone months, everyone on both sides is sick of it and screaming, "For crying out loud, none of us care, just let us through!"
The posturing and the arm waving on both sides is all good and well, but I'd be fascinated to see the reality of what goes down.
If we leave without a deal, what happens to the Irish border? - Full Fact
This article is part of our Ask Full Fact series on Brexit, answering your questions about Brexit and the latest negotiations between the UK and the EU.
fullfact.org
RyanioBirdio
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For such an apparently impossible and complex issue, they've managed to sum that up quite quickly. And what I'm seeing is essentially a shrug and a bit of, "Meh... guess we'd probably just have to keep it open and figure out a few checks on some bits and pieces somewhere else for a bit?"If we leave without a deal, what happens to the Irish border? - Full Fact
This article is part of our Ask Full Fact series on Brexit, answering your questions about Brexit and the latest negotiations between the UK and the EU.
It's still incredibly vague, but how interesting to see that Ireland are saying they're more concerned about the peace process and keeping the border open than protecting the EU and their rules. Their priority doesn't appear to be what Brussels wants.
Either way, I'm genuinely fascinated to see what goes down here in the event that we ever actually leave at all.
Sheik djibouti
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I would assume that, like any other 3rd party country, the goods can't simply be exported to the EU without the correct export licences and accompanying paperwork that has been checked, along with confirmation that any applicable tariff has been paid. Otherwise that constitutes an illegal import to the EU.
Illegal imports could be repatriated to their source with the government and illegal exporter picking up the cost of that repatriation and any potential disposal cost. There's also a risk that the illegal exporter would not stand much chance of getting an export/import licence from the EU should they have already broken the law and could face legal proceedings. And depending on how much that business relies on the EU/Eire as an export market, I would suggest it could be pretty catastrophic for them.
How would you expect our government to try and prevent illegal imports to this country?
What would you think were reasonable steps in the event of no deal?
Illegal imports could be repatriated to their source with the government and illegal exporter picking up the cost of that repatriation and any potential disposal cost. There's also a risk that the illegal exporter would not stand much chance of getting an export/import licence from the EU should they have already broken the law and could face legal proceedings. And depending on how much that business relies on the EU/Eire as an export market, I would suggest it could be pretty catastrophic for them.
How would you expect our government to try and prevent illegal imports to this country?
What would you think were reasonable steps in the event of no deal?
Sheik djibouti
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Yep..and it will undercut legitimate business making it even harder for them to trade. I would expect those trying to do the right thing would expect a little bit of protection from their goverment...of course they'll probably get next to none.
It's everyone for themselves...isn't that the Tory motto?
Navegante
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But what about when Turkey joins the EU and 80m brown people (most of whom are Islamic Muslims) all at once decide to decamp to UK simultaneously?
We were promised that we would take control of our boarders! They will be able to take a flight to Ireland and waltz over the boarder to Albion unchallenged!
We and the EU will have to follow WTO rules at the Irish border at a minimum otherwise both will be breaking those rules opening themselves up to appeals by other countries. I have a vague notion of reading that if we didn't do checks then it would open us up to other countries being able to demand the same access which would rather screw up UK companies but could be wrong.
S
Shropshire U
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It's not just "an EU problem" because a border has 2 sides and Northern Ireland is part of the UK. So it's about the UK's sovereignty (so precious to Brexiteers) even more than the EU's boundaries.
It's an issue with extra force because of the history of the island of Ireland. The question of smuggled goods is nothing compared to the political and symbolic weight of that border.
S
Shropshire U
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Apparently he was trying to get into a meeting organised to launch the Tories as the party of law and order
So the Irish border is about 500km long - meaning that if we do leave the EU, it will become (I believe) the 10th longest border between the EU and a non-EU nation (trailing Norway, Russia, Switzerland, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Bosnia & Herzegovina and - hilariously - Brazil and Suriname [well played, French Guiana])
Obviously some of the above have free trade deals and free movement of people with the EU, but many - including Russia - do not. Yet they certainly don't have a physical barrier covering the entire 2,257 km of the Russia-EU border.
It'll function - as Sheik describes - as most big land borders function. There won't be infrastructure to stop everyone from crossing - but if you carry goods across the border without declaring and paying tariffs on them, then they become illegal imports.
Presumably, until other legislation is agreed by both sides, any person who crosses the border without the appropriate visas and paperwork will also be, in theory at least, an illegal immigrant.
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Bloody hooligans the lot of them. Perhaps there should be some sort of compulsory ID card they should be forced to carry.
m
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What's your solution to the Irish border problem?
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52% of those who were elegible to vote on that day, and of who voted.
