How to complete the season

[yellowbow]

Probably not the best place to post this but can I take this opportunity to tell the Premier League to f#ck off with its B team agenda?

Clubs may have to 'share resources'

The controversial concept of B teams may be back on the agenda as football tries to navigate a way through Covid-19, Brighton technical director Dan Ashworth says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[werthersoriginal]

Only way it works if every team has played the same amount of games. You would descriminate against teams that have played more games as their ppg would be lower. Only way it is fair is void or carry on the season. I'm don't think either ppg options are fair.

Probably not the best place to post this but can I take this opportunity to tell the Premier League to f#ck off with its B team agenda?

Clubs may have to 'share resources'

The controversial concept of B teams may be back on the agenda as football tries to navigate a way through Covid-19, Brighton technical director Dan Ashworth says.

www.bbc.co.uk

who cares what some back room bloke at Brighton thinks. We’ll be above them soon anyway

 

[holdsteady]

Probably not the best place to post this but can I take this opportunity to tell the Premier League to f#ck off with its B team agenda?

Clubs may have to 'share resources'

The controversial concept of B teams may be back on the agenda as football tries to navigate a way through Covid-19, Brighton technical director Dan Ashworth says.

www.bbc.co.uk

You knew it was coming, surprised it has taken so long to rear it’s ugly head.

 

[ttg17]

Wycombe would go up under Corbyn.

Weighted home and away PPG? Got Cummings’ fingerprints all over it

 

[NottsYellow]

If the play offs are scrapped, is it right 3 teams are promoted? As team in 3rd place does not have automatic right to a promotion place, 3 other teams have a right to compete, on a knock out basis for this place. Therefore, it might simplify matters if relegation & promotion was reduced to just 2 teams between Championship & league 1; 3 teams between league 1 & 2; 2 teams between premiership & championship.
This means 1 less team gets relegated. This takes a lot of the heat of debate out of relegation. Looking at the tables the top two or bottom two have a gap between the other teams so it simplifies matters and reduces the claims some teams may have.
Then at bottom of league 2 and top of National. Barrow are well clear at top of National, so promote them and forget pay offs in National. No relegation in league 2 (although it would be shame not to see Stevenage back where they belong), this then effectively replaces the spare place arising from Bury demise.

 

[ttg17]

Would just like to say I would actually like to thank @Wanderer for coming on here to explain their point of view without being a dickhead (despite some of the jibes!). It’s obviously a pretty emotive subject for fans of all the teams in the top 8, as they have all probably been the best team in the league at some point over the season and will all feel they could reasonably have earned a promotion, and there is no ‘right’ way to go about it.

I am trying to be objective and, while my first preference would be null and void, if the season is to be ‘finished’, I have been persuaded that weighted PPG is the most accurate reflection of teams’ relative sporting merit. However, if it came to it, I wouldn’t be particularly disappointed if straight PPG were used, either. I wonder if any of our arguments have changed your mind at all, Wanderer? Or are we all just fruitlessly screaming into the void?

 

[MC Yellow]

Would just like to say I would actually like to thank @Wanderer for coming on here to explain their point of view without being a dickhead (despite some of the jibes!). It’s obviously a pretty emotive subject for fans of all the teams in the top 8, as they have all probably been the best team in the league at some point over the season and will all feel they could reasonably have earned a promotion, and there is no ‘right’ way to go about it.

I am trying to be objective and, while my first preference would be null and void, if the season is to be ‘finished’, I have been persuaded that weighted PPG is the most accurate reflection of teams’ relative sporting merit. However, if it came to it, I wouldn’t be particularly disappointed if straight PPG were used, either. I wonder if any of our arguments have changed your mind at all, Wanderer? Or are we all just fruitlessly screaming into the void?

Fair comment. I did throw in a couple of comments but I think it was all taken in pretty good spirit. It certainly didn’t degenerate like some other threads have, so fair play to him for that.

Personally, if any PPG is decided as the solution, I would be surprised if 3rd place is offered up for auto anyway.

 

[Shev]

Another Wycombe fan here. I would make the following points:

1. This really is not ideal either way. I would prefer to get promoted, and therefore have a natural bias towards PPG, and I would still celebrate it. But it would not feel like an achievement in a sense, and I would genuinely feel sorry for Oxford. If you get promoted, I would genuinely feel sorry for us! It just feels crappy either way, though I would fully expect either fan base who gets the nod to revel in it. We should all still celebrate good things happening to our clubs!

2. There are genuine arguments for both type of PPG, but they all deflect from the fact that it is not going to be ideal, or objectively fair, whatever happens. The simple fact of it is that teams have only been tested fairly if they play each other once at home, and once away, in front of the same crowds. Even "behind closed doors" changes the test, so to speak.

3. I would prefer a playoff, either between our two clubs at Wembley, or a four team playoff with two other sides. I doubt that happens, but it would feel a lot more fair, even though it would lower our chances. It would also give that defining moment to whichever fanbase gets to celebrate promotion. Beating out the likes of Oxford, Fleetwood and Peterborough/Portsmouth would make it feel earned, as I am sure it would for whichever club won.

4. If one of us goes up, our prize may be a shortened season behind closed doors in the Championship, with higher costs and bigger losses, coming back down in worse position after the joy of seeing the likes of Brentford hammer us in front of empty stands.

5. The most important thing in all this is continued survival for all clubs, and also avoiding some kind of Premier League coup where they try to foist the B Team nonsense on us.

I am looking forward to Tuesday (or whenever), but it is a weird feeling in the pit of the stomach, and I certainly won't come back on here shouting "They chose our PPG over yours!"

 

[werthersoriginal]

Another Wycombe fan here. I would make the following points:

1. This really is not ideal either way. I would prefer to get promoted, and therefore have a natural bias towards PPG, and I would still celebrate it. But it would not feel like an achievement in a sense, and I would genuinely feel sorry for Oxford. If you get promoted, I would genuinely feel sorry for us! It just feels crappy either way, though I would fully expect either fan base who gets the nod to revel in it. We should all still celebrate good things happening to our clubs!

2. There are genuine arguments for both type of PPG, but they all deflect from the fact that it is not going to be ideal, or objectively fair, whatever happens. The simple fact of it is that teams have only been tested fairly if they play each other once at home, and once away, in front of the same crowds. Even "behind closed doors" changes the test, so to speak.

3. I would prefer a playoff, either between our two clubs at Wembley, or a four team playoff with two other sides. I doubt that happens, but it would feel a lot more fair, even though it would lower our chances. It would also give that defining moment to whichever fanbase gets to celebrate promotion. Beating out the likes of Oxford, Fleetwood and Peterborough/Portsmouth would make it feel earned, as I am sure it would for whichever club won.

4. If one of us goes up, our prize may be a shortened season behind closed doors in the Championship, with higher costs and bigger losses, coming back down in worse position after the joy of seeing the likes of Brentford hammer us in front of empty stands.

5. The most important thing in all this is continued survival for all clubs, and also avoiding some kind of Premier League coup where they try to foist the B Team nonsense on us.

I am looking forward to Tuesday (or whenever), but it is a weird feeling in the pit of the stomach, and I certainly won't come back on here shouting "They chose our PPG over yours!"

Nice one mate, very sensible

 

[The Forgotten Highlander]

Another Wycombe fan here. I would make the following points:

1. This really is not ideal either way. I would prefer to get promoted, and therefore have a natural bias towards PPG, and I would still celebrate it. But it would not feel like an achievement in a sense, and I would genuinely feel sorry for Oxford. If you get promoted, I would genuinely feel sorry for us! It just feels crappy either way, though I would fully expect either fan base who gets the nod to revel in it. We should all still celebrate good things happening to our clubs!

2. There are genuine arguments for both type of PPG, but they all deflect from the fact that it is not going to be ideal, or objectively fair, whatever happens. The simple fact of it is that teams have only been tested fairly if they play each other once at home, and once away, in front of the same crowds. Even "behind closed doors" changes the test, so to speak.

3. I would prefer a playoff, either between our two clubs at Wembley, or a four team playoff with two other sides. I doubt that happens, but it would feel a lot more fair, even though it would lower our chances. It would also give that defining moment to whichever fanbase gets to celebrate promotion. Beating out the likes of Oxford, Fleetwood and Peterborough/Portsmouth would make it feel earned, as I am sure it would for whichever club won.

4. If one of us goes up, our prize may be a shortened season behind closed doors in the Championship, with higher costs and bigger losses, coming back down in worse position after the joy of seeing the likes of Brentford hammer us in front of empty stands.

5. The most important thing in all this is continued survival for all clubs, and also avoiding some kind of Premier League coup where they try to foist the B Team nonsense on us.

I am looking forward to Tuesday (or whenever), but it is a weird feeling in the pit of the stomach, and I certainly won't come back on here shouting "They chose our PPG over yours!"

Totally agree. You make a great point (no.4) concerning the implications of promotion. It could be a poisoned chalice.
I get the impression things are about to turn real nasty.......

 

[holdsteady]

I don’t get what Sunderland, Peterborough etc have a problem with in all this, they are not going up (unless we carry this season on somehow and they don’t seem to want to do that) under any ppg scenarios that I have seen (well goal difference I suppose but that’s unlikely to count) and voiding it all, which in my view would be fair enough but they don’t seem to want that either, will get them the same result.

Surely they want this mess over as soon as possible so they can concentrate on trying to get some income out of the mess of next season, so with nothing to gain they will just agree to whatever is suggested to move on quickly.

 

[Northstandboy]

I don’t get what Sunderland, Peterborough etc have a problem with in all this, they are not going up (unless we carry this season on somehow and they don’t seem to want to do that) under any ppg scenarios that I have seen (well goal difference I suppose but that’s unlikely to count) and voiding it all, which in my view would be fair enough but they don’t seem to want that either, will get them the same result.

Surely they want this mess over as soon as possible so they can concentrate on trying to get some income out of the mess of next season, so with nothing to gain they will just agree to whatever is suggested to move on quickly.

They want and so are pressing for the season to restart.

 

[holdsteady]

They want and so are pressing for the season to restart.

Have they got a plan for restarting the season?

 

[Northstandboy]

Have they got a plan for restarting the season?

Desperation, so probably not ?

 

[Wanderer]

Don't worry everyone I've sorted it all out.

If we use the weighted PPG we have from nige01ox, but add in a difficulty factor we have the solution.
I'll explain, try to keep up

Oxford have a Home PPG of 2.1176 and an away PPG of 1.3333. These are the teams we have to play with their PPG:

View attachment 3623

For each game still to be played the 3 points available are allocated based on a formula using each team's PPG. The formula being:
Home pts = 3 * (Home PPG/(Home PPG + Away PPG))
Away pts = 3 * (Away PPG/(Home PPG + Away PPG))

So when we play MK Dons the points are split 2.4 to us and 0.6 points to them. In other words the PPG is adjusted for the difficulty of the game.

The points for the remaining fixtures come out as :

View attachment 3621

We get a further 16.41 points making our season adjusted total 76.41.

Sparing you the workings, the Wycombe points total is adjusted by 15.77 points, with a final value of 74.77.

So do we get promotion? I haven't worked out the other protagonists yet. But we finish above WWFC.

Fair enough! I haven't checked the maths but I trust you've added it all up correctly. If they used that I wouldn't have too many complaint

Would just like to say I would actually like to thank @Wanderer for coming on here to explain their point of view without being a dickhead (despite some of the jibes!). It’s obviously a pretty emotive subject for fans of all the teams in the top 8, as they have all probably been the best team in the league at some point over the season and will all feel they could reasonably have earned a promotion, and there is no ‘right’ way to go about it.

I am trying to be objective and, while my first preference would be null and void, if the season is to be ‘finished’, I have been persuaded that weighted PPG is the most accurate reflection of teams’ relative sporting merit. However, if it came to it, I wouldn’t be particularly disappointed if straight PPG were used, either. I wonder if any of our arguments have changed your mind at all, Wanderer? Or are we all just fruitlessly screaming into the void?

Thank you! I've tried to be as civil as possible, despite some of the jibes coming back at me. It's only to expected though, with such an emotive subject.

You guys have actually changed my view quite a bit. If you use the model suggested above which accounts for fixture difficulty and home/away performance, then I would likely accept Oxford finishing ahead of us (even though it would be a huge shame). I haven't bothered to verify those stats, but it seems fairer than either of the other PPG options.

I never came on here this morning to wind up Oxford fans - despite what some may think. Just to put across the opposite view in an objective way. I actually live in Oxford, so I'm not exactly a stranger to Oxford fans - lots of them are close friends. Weighted PPG just seemed like a big con to me

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Personally, I think that any variation of PPG is unsatisfactory. As we all know, football is quite unpredictable and never more so at the end of the season. They have two realistic options IMO:
a) Finish the season somehow. Looking increasingly unlikely.
b) Write the season off completely.

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

Probably not the best place to post this but can I take this opportunity to tell the Premier League to f#ck off with its B team agenda?

Clubs may have to 'share resources'

The controversial concept of B teams may be back on the agenda as football tries to navigate a way through Covid-19, Brighton technical director Dan Ashworth says.

www.bbc.co.uk

“When the swimmer is bleeding into the sea, the sharks will start to circle “

Quotes Eric Cantona never made

 

[MC Yellow]

Bundesliga set to start next week but Dynamo Dresden have just put there entire squad into 2 week isolation which means that they will be unable to fulfil their opening fixtures.

If this is a problem in Germany there is absolutely no way we are getting it sorted over here.

 

[Northstandboy]

Bundesliga set to start next week but Dynamo Dresden have just put there entire squad into 2 week isolation which means that they will be unable to fulfil their opening fixtures.

If this is a problem in Germany there is absolutely no way we are getting it sorted over here.

I read that EPL players will have to quarantine 2 weeks before but then also during the season restart, so unable to see family.

Are the Germans doing this?

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

Just want to add to the approval of our Wycombe visitors. They’ve come on with decorum, taken a bit of a bashing but not thrown toys out the pram or gone to ludicrous city.

Probably lucky we aren’t rivals like Swindon , Reading, Luton etc otherwise this would be a harder debate to have in civility