National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

Sheik djibouti said:
I'm not sure you really understand why they're taking industrial action in the first place do you?
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Yes I do - T&C`s and pay. They want better, that is fair enough. They have reached a point where they withdraw their labour. So the backlog of justice gets bigger, juniors will be expected to work harder and the circle goes round again. Eventually somewhere in the middle will be agreed and that`ll be that for a while. 🤷‍♀️
QR said:
I can see you are trying to hit new lows with those false equivalents you love so much. Absolutely bullshit.
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Just how life is if you can pay you can get things done quickly or receive a better quality of service. You`ll learn.
 
Essexyellows said:
Yes I do - T&C`s and pay. They want better, that is fair enough. They have reached a point where they withdraw their labour. So the backlog of justice gets bigger, juniors will be expected to work harder and the circle goes round again. Eventually somewhere in the middle will be agreed and that`ll be that for a while. 🤷‍♀️
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This has much more of the Thatcher v the unions feel to it. Not the same dynamics but a set of circumstances where those pay has been kept below the average of most other workers for a number of years have finally said enough is enough and at a time when the government is weak despite its huge majority. Most people can simply move jobs in the job market, but when the role becomes fundamentally under valued by the employer and the hope of the unions is that they are not by society. Ultimately this will turn into a battle between the government and the electorate.
The fundamental political battleground will always be pay orientated because it is the one area where people will eventually stand and fight. In this extreme where many who have never worried about standard of living are now becoming affected means the battleground dynamic is rife for action.
 
And now Doctors are threatening action with a 30% pay rise over 5 years, simply to restore them to the level they were being paid (in real terms) back in 2008 before the Tories embarked on the ridiculous folly of austerity. The same argument can and will be made right across the public sector.

And whilst the government are seen as hypocrites for the 10% pension rise and the lack of restraint on bankers pay and bonuses and the levels of pay rise in some prviate sector quarters (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/p...s that many employees,across the UK this year.), this is all going to get rather messy. What makes it worse is that the Government have already decided this is one of those "wedge" issues from which they think they can make political capital (as they have tried with the RMT).

And the much-maligned public sector workers continue to be maligned, especially in the Tory supporting press as lazy and wasteful, when the reality is that the vast, vast majority are providing vital services that we all rely on in everyday life, or are grateful they are there in our time of need.. I have friends who work in the public sector who tell me that they are almost ashamed to tell people what they do when asked, such is the reaction and stigma that has become attached. Many see it as "not a proper job" or "an overhead" or "you;re the reason I pay so much tax".

And what makes this even worse is the reality that the overall package has been denuded to such an extent over the last 12 years, that it is no longer attractive (or financially viable in many cases) to take those Public Sector roles. There is a significant recruitment and retention problem in may parts of the Public Sector, especially areas where cost of living and housing is higher than average. Many older workers are getting out as soon as they can afford to because the demands and expectation are completely unrealistic. It has become a perfect storm and yet all the government seem interested in is setting out those standing up for parity and fairness as the villains in all this.

General strike by Xmas anyone?
 
You would never believe I was/am a Left Sider, still in touch with Pluggy and a good few old lads. :)

I`m uncertain that there is the appetite for a GS, nobody wants rubbish piling up and the lights going out.
We will probably find that each group/union will step up, ask for the moon on a stick, get the stick and no moon, inflation/cost of stuff will rise to pay for it and we will all be worse off. :)

Most people realise that there will be payback/pain to cover Covid etc its about balancing things out.
The rebates/tax changes/NI etc will take time to bed in for most folk.
Sort out fuel prices (hefty fuel duty cut ,not pennies, and get the producers to match it) and that would make a huge difference to many things and push the economy along.

Bit socialist but there we are. :)
 
Sheik djibouti said:
And now Doctors are threatening action with a 30% pay rise over 5 years, simply to restore them to the level they were being paid (in real terms) back in 2008 before the Tories embarked on the ridiculous folly of austerity. The same argument can and will be made right across the public sector.

And whilst the government are seen as hypocrites for the 10% pension rise and the lack of restraint on bankers pay and bonuses and the levels of pay rise in some prviate sector quarters (https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/pwc-pay-increase-2022-cost-of-living/#:~:text=It means that many employees,across the UK this year.), this is all going to get rather messy. What makes it worse is that the Government have already decided this is one of those "wedge" issues from which they think they can make political capital (as they have tried with the RMT).

And the much-maligned public sector workers continue to be maligned, especially in the Tory supporting press as lazy and wasteful, when the reality is that the vast, vast majority are providing vital services that we all rely on in everyday life, or are grateful they are there in our time of need.. I have friends who work in the public sector who tell me that they are almost ashamed to tell people what they do when asked, such is the reaction and stigma that has become attached. Many see it as "not a proper job" or "an overhead" or "you;re the reason I pay so much tax".

And what makes this even worse is the reality that the overall package has been denuded to such an extent over the last 12 years, that it is no longer attractive (or financially viable in many cases) to take those Public Sector roles. There is a significant recruitment and retention problem in may parts of the Public Sector, especially areas where cost of living and housing is higher than average. Many older workers are getting out as soon as they can afford to because the demands and expectation are completely unrealistic. It has become a perfect storm and yet all the government seem interested in is setting out those standing up for parity and fairness as the villains in all this.

General strike by Xmas anyone?
Click to expand...
The trouble is, a lot of people who have bad pay and conditions with no union representation tend to side with the government and bosses, on the basis that if they have a shitty job then so should everyone else. It seems a peculiarly English, bitter and twisted attitude.
 
werthersoriginal said:
The trouble is, a lot of people who have bad pay and conditions with no union representation tend to side with the government and bosses, on the basis that if they have a shitty job then so should everyone else. It seems a peculiarly English, bitter and twisted attitude.
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Similar to America’s ultra poor campaigning against free healthcare because it’s communist.
 
werthersoriginal said:
The trouble is, a lot of people who have bad pay and conditions with no union representation tend to side with the government and bosses, on the basis that if they have a shitty job then so should everyone else. It seems a peculiarly English, bitter and twisted attitude.
Click to expand...
I completely agree and it is nothing short of criminal that people with no representation (or even in many cases the right to representation) are exploited in that way. It really is an abusive relationship where the abused often have very little choice other than to accept their lot. The government will use it to their advantage (as you have said) to portray those who do take industrial action as being greedy, when in reality it is much more about being valued rather than devalued. This is precisely what has happened to the majority who are fortunate enough to have representation over the last 12 or so years.

Nobody wants to lose a days pay and strike, nobody wants to walk out of their job where they are providing essential services, but It has reached crisis point for so many that they feel they have no option and this has been building for a long time, not just since the Cost of Living crisis.

I feel sorry for those who do not have that protection, nor that last resort to turn to.
 
Essexyellows said:
You would never believe I was/am a Left Sider, still in touch with Pluggy and a good few old lads. :)

I`m uncertain that there is the appetite for a GS, nobody wants rubbish piling up and the lights going out.
We will probably find that each group/union will step up, ask for the moon on a stick, get the stick and no moon, inflation/cost of stuff will rise to pay for it and we will all be worse off. :)

Most people realise that there will be payback/pain to cover Covid etc its about balancing things out.
The rebates/tax changes/NI etc will take time to bed in for most folk.
Sort out fuel prices (hefty fuel duty cut ,not pennies, and get the producers to match it) and that would make a huge difference to many things and push the economy along.

Bit socialist but there we are. :)
Click to expand...
Just as well we had the austerity years to ensure the economy was on a sound footing and public services were suitably invested in.
 
38yearsofpain said:
I love this thread, there is definitely we are the left side left side followed by we are the right side right side theme to it, with very few vocal fences sitters. They sit by and watch but are the silent majority.
Click to expand...

Just the scream of pain with all these splinters in my a**e.
 
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