National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

mooro said:
I think I noted that the actual deaths are now below the expected level, so is it the case that some of the excess is natural fluctuations around the line and/or natural deaths just brought forward by only a couple of months only.
Will probably need to look at numbers over the whole year to come up with a true picture
Click to expand...
Absolutely. It will be interesting to see how the figures change once PHE have a look at the data and possible recategorise COVID deaths.
 
Essexyellows said:
Not lie`s per se. Interpretation of data is very objective.
Poverty is also incredibly difficult to define and is very relative.
If you have minimal overheads and a low income you could be defined as "in poverty" but living life perfectly happily.
Vice versa you could have a larger income and higher overheads, not be "in poverty" but waiting for the next payment to feed the kids.
Click to expand...

You are being lied to and you are not just going along with it you are, as good as damn it, repeating the lie!

www.lbc.co.uk

Full Fact confirms Boris Johnson made "untrue claims" on child poverty

Fact-checking body Full Fact verifies that the Prime Minister has made "untrue claims" about the UK's level of child poverty on multiple occasions.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk

Fact-checking body Full Fact verifies that the Prime Minister has made "untrue claims" about the UK's level of child poverty on multiple occasions.

The Prime Minister has been untruthful about child poverty figures, the UK Statistics Authorities for Statistics Regulation has confirmed.

The watchdog found he made "incorrect claims about the level of child poverty under the Conservtiaves."

Mr Moy pointed out that poverty is subjective, thus very hard to measure, however "this wasn't a case of cherry picking...this was actually just claiming the numbers were different than they actually are."
 
QR said:
You are being lied to and you are not just going along with it you are, as good as damn it, repeating the lie!

www.lbc.co.uk

Full Fact confirms Boris Johnson made "untrue claims" on child poverty

Fact-checking body Full Fact verifies that the Prime Minister has made "untrue claims" about the UK's level of child poverty on multiple occasions.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk

Fact-checking body Full Fact verifies that the Prime Minister has made "untrue claims" about the UK's level of child poverty on multiple occasions.

The Prime Minister has been untruthful about child poverty figures, the UK Statistics Authorities for Statistics Regulation has confirmed.

The watchdog found he made "incorrect claims about the level of child poverty under the Conservtiaves."

Mr Moy pointed out that poverty is subjective, thus very hard to measure, however "this wasn't a case of cherry picking...this was actually just claiming the numbers were different than they actually are."
Click to expand...

You need some unconscious bias training......... poverty is subjective.... its even in your quote. ;-)
 
Essexyellows said:
You need some unconscious bias training......... poverty is subjective.... its even in your quote. ;-)
Click to expand...
Maybe you could do some conscious bias training at the same time? Either that or see a professional about your obvious myopia when it comes to Bojo ;) You see, the bit from that you have chosen to cherry pick about "poverty is subjective" neglects to recognise the fact that the person who said it (who happens to be somewhat of an expert) then goes on to say

however "this wasn't a case of cherry picking...this was actually just claiming the numbers were different than they actually are."

The underlined word is rather important...as is the rest of the sentence and you trying to defend it because "poverty is subjective" is pretty risible.

HE WAS ACTUALLY CLAIMING THAT THE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT TO WHAT THEY ARE.

Ask any optician and they will tell you that tunnel vision can lead to some pretty serious problems with balance;)
 
Essexyellows said:
You need some unconscious bias training......... poverty is subjective.... its even in your quote. ;-)
Click to expand...
You need to stop side stepping the point and trying to make out a different issues is being raised.

No one is saying poverty isn't subjective. They are saying Boris claimed the numbers were different to what they are. Do you really not get that or are you choosing to blank it?
 
Nothing to say about Blair lying I note................... how many died because of that?
Between 480,000 and 500,000 are the conservative estimates....

They all use information and numbers to suit their agenda`s........... its politics. Once you realise that, and that you can`t change it you will be at peace. Ohhhmmmmm.
 
Sheik djibouti said:
Maybe you could do some conscious bias training at the same time? Either that or see a professional about your obvious myopia when it comes to Bojo ;) You see, the bit from that you have chosen to cherry pick about "poverty is subjective" neglects to recognise the fact that the person who said it (who happens to be somewhat of an expert) then goes on to say

however "this wasn't a case of cherry picking...this was actually just claiming the numbers were different than they actually are."

The underlined word is rather important...as is the rest of the sentence and you trying to defend it because "poverty is subjective" is pretty risible.

HE WAS ACTUALLY CLAIMING THAT THE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT TO WHAT THEY ARE.

Ask any optician and they will tell you that tunnel vision can lead to some pretty serious problems with balance;)
Click to expand...

As there are differing definitions of poverty then it is very subjective and could easily be used to reflect what a political leader wished to reflect.

I`ll hand you over to the BBC Fact Check for the answers.
www.bbc.co.uk

Child poverty: Boris Johnson's claims fact-checked

The prime minister has made four claims on poverty, do the figures support them?
www.bbc.co.uk

Relative poverty had increased.
Relative poverty: This is calculated by taking the median or middle income in the country - that is the level at which half the people earn less and half more.

Absolute poverty had declined.
Absolute poverty: This uses the same 60% calculation as above, but it applies it to the median income of a fixed year - 2010-11.

And the questions to establish "poverty" have also changed.

It is certainly not black and white enough to say he lied, misled at worse which is different. ;-)
 
Essexyellows said:
Nothing to say about Blair lying I note................... how many died because of that?
Between 480,000 and 500,000 are the conservative estimates....

They all use information and numbers to suit their agenda`s........... its politics. Once you realise that, and that you can`t change it you will be at peace. Ohhhmmmmm.
Click to expand...
Er? Blair lied so it's ok for Doris to lie? It that really where you are at?
 
Essexyellows said:
As there are differing definitions of poverty then it is very subjective and could easily be used to reflect what a political leader wished to reflect.

I`ll hand you over to the BBC Fact Check for the answers.
www.bbc.co.uk

Child poverty: Boris Johnson's claims fact-checked

The prime minister has made four claims on poverty, do the figures support them?
www.bbc.co.uk

Relative poverty had increased.
Relative poverty: This is calculated by taking the median or middle income in the country - that is the level at which half the people earn less and half more.

Absolute poverty had declined.
Absolute poverty: This uses the same 60% calculation as above, but it applies it to the median income of a fixed year - 2010-11.

And the questions to establish "poverty" have also changed.

It is certainly not black and white enough to say he lied, misled at worse which is different. ;-)
Click to expand...
So misleading is now different to lying is it?

Try telling that to a judge when you are found to have mislead the jury when called as a witness under oath.
Try convincing the advertising standards authority that your misleading advertising campaign was not lying about your product.
Maybe you would not be so blaze about what is truth and lies if they had actual real personal consequences and you might be a little more careful about what you chose to say and what you chose to believe.

And I will never condone lying by any politician of any persuasion - it's rather unfortunate that you try to justify your BFFs misconduct with a good old dose of whataboutism - it really does undermine your argument somewhat.

Boris is economical with the truth......plenty of evidence of that over the years!
 
The point was they ALL are "economical with the truth".............. mostly because we ( the people) wouldn`t like it.

s**t happens, life goes on...... worry about what you can change not what you can`t. The more people do that the better the world would be..... make small changes to those that matter to you and where you can see a viable difference.
Politics is about finding those who mostly share your views but then the big stuff is out of our hands.............. deal with it.

Starmer said what Boris did about lock down was right, however he couldn`t be seen to completely agree, so sniped about the timing. <shrugs shoulders>
 
Essexyellows said:
Not lie`s per se. Interpretation of data is very objective.
Poverty is also incredibly difficult to define and is very relative.
If you have minimal overheads and a low income you could be defined as "in poverty" but living life perfectly happily.
Vice versa you could have a larger income and higher overheads, not be "in poverty" but waiting for the next payment to feed the kids.
Click to expand...


So poverty isn't a measure of your financial "clout" but how smily you are whilst being able to exercise it or not?
 
stokeu said:
So poverty isn't a measure of your financial "clout" but how smily you are whilst being able to exercise it or not?
Click to expand...

Depends how you define poverty.
Plenty round here, in our deprived neighbourhood, plead poverty but seem to find the money for "less important" things.
Poverty to me is choosing between food or paying the utilities, if you have a roof over your head.
Most of us are 2 or maybe 3 pay packets from the streets......but are we in poverty? Genuine question I would like to know.
 
Essexyellows said:
Depends how you define poverty.
Plenty round here, in our deprived neighbourhood, plead poverty but seem to find the money for "less important" things.
Poverty to me is choosing between food or paying the utilities, if you have a roof over your head.
Most of us are 2 or maybe 3 pay packets from the streets......but are we in poverty? Genuine question I would like to know.
Click to expand...
The sad thing is that there will be members of this board reading this who are struggling with long term poverty and not wanting to say anything, while a bunch of self-satisfied comfortably-off people discuss what poverty is and how chronically poor people should behave.
 
I dont have strong political allegiances generally, and have voted both red and blue. But these lot. Wow. Corrupt, inept, entitled, self serving, arrogant, callous, lying, almost evil in some cases.

Im 36 and i have never encountered a worse government.
 
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