National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

[Sarge]

Copied this below from the BTL comments on the Guardian. Perhaps the best summary of the situation I've seen and as someone who grew up just down the coast right on the money:

What left wing media fails to understand about Hartlepool is just how broken that place is.
The people that write these articles have absolutely no idea what it is like to come from a family where there are three generations that have never had gainful employment. I grew up in Teesside, and know firsthand that the government statistics on crime and unemployment are complete and utter B*****s. Until you've been sold a sixteenth of hash by a 10 year old through the front window of a terraced house, you really need shup about how you ‘understand the people of that region’.
Hartlepool isn't London. There is generational poverty everywhere you turn. Literally nobody on housing estate after housing estate owns 'assets'. The mere suggestion they ever could is laughable.
And Hartlepool is not in the least bit multi-cultural. The constant TV adverts with mixed race families tossing salad on a plush lawn mean absolutely nothing to them. Those 'other' people simply do not exist in Hartlepool. For Christs sake, they don't trust people from Billingham, never mind Romania.
You just don't get it do you? Keir Starmer swanning in his suit and side parting pretending he understands them, and telling them "what the people of Hartlepool need are jobs" when his party pressed on with trickledown economics and deregulation and resoundingly failed to create a single job up there in 20 years of power, and huge swathes of that community have never worked, and thousands more work shitty hours in shitty jobs that hold them a millimeter above the poverty line. They always will be in working poverty. They know that.
For christ sake, 10 miles down the road in Redcar, the Tories shut down the Steel Mill in order to cut a deal with the Chinese over Hinkley Point, and the people of Redcar still voted for them. Didn’t that give anyone in Labour HQ something to think about??? They don’t give a toss about jobs up there anymore. Most of them have never had a job that did more than stop them from starving.
Starmer and the Labour party offer them absolutely nothing. The bloke hasn't a clue what Hartlepool wants. In truth, Hartlepool stopped wanting or expecting any ecomomic miracle decades ago. Tory, Labour, Tory, Liberal coalitions... none of it made a tiny bit of difference to Teesside, and you can't blame these people for thinking nothing ever will change. They don't expect tech companies, financiers or front-end manufacturing to suddenly turn up, give them all a 500% pay rise and let them save for a dignified retirement.
Sadly though, Johnsons advisers do know what makes them tick. Kicking out foreigners is tangible. Booting out eastern European plasterers and brickies will do for the people of Hartlepool. At least somebody else is getting a kicking, right?
I'm not going to bother saying "until Labour understand this" because even if they did understand this, the truth of the matter is Hartlepool is fucked, and will remain fucked no matter who pretends to be ‘in charge’. That is a stone-cold economic fact.
With his Picaninnies and Letterbox comments, at least somebody is speaking to them in their own language, albeit with his ridiculous Eton accent. The left wont stoop that low, and rightly so! But stop fooling yourselves that Labour have any sort of economic model their sleeve that can resuscitate a town that was dead long, long ago and was barely even alive in the first place.
Is all the above awful? Yes, it is heartbreaking, xenophobic, terrible and cruel. But that is the way it is. And I know, because I used to live in Teesside. The only reasonable way to improve your life chances if you are from Hartlepool is to leave Hartlepool, but ironically, Brexit has made that way more difficult for anyone who understands the matter.
It’s a total shitshow up there man. In fact, the whole country is a s**t show. Heartbreaking, even for somebody who left 20 years ago.

well explained @Berliner

 

[QR]

Copied this below from the BTL comments on the Guardian. Perhaps the best summary of the situation I've seen and as someone who grew up just down the coast right on the money. EDITED TO ADD: The comment below isn't from me personally.:

What left wing media fails to understand about Hartlepool is just how broken that place is.
The people that write these articles have absolutely no idea what it is like to come from a family where there are three generations that have never had gainful employment. I grew up in Teesside, and know firsthand that the government statistics on crime and unemployment are complete and utter B*****s. Until you've been sold a sixteenth of hash by a 10 year old through the front window of a terraced house, you really need shup about how you ‘understand the people of that region’.
Hartlepool isn't London. There is generational poverty everywhere you turn. Literally nobody on housing estate after housing estate owns 'assets'. The mere suggestion they ever could is laughable.
And Hartlepool is not in the least bit multi-cultural. The constant TV adverts with mixed race families tossing salad on a plush lawn mean absolutely nothing to them. Those 'other' people simply do not exist in Hartlepool. For Christs sake, they don't trust people from Billingham, never mind Romania.
You just don't get it do you? Keir Starmer swanning in his suit and side parting pretending he understands them, and telling them "what the people of Hartlepool need are jobs" when his party pressed on with trickledown economics and deregulation and resoundingly failed to create a single job up there in 20 years of power, and huge swathes of that community have never worked, and thousands more work shitty hours in shitty jobs that hold them a millimeter above the poverty line. They always will be in working poverty. They know that.
For christ sake, 10 miles down the road in Redcar, the Tories shut down the Steel Mill in order to cut a deal with the Chinese over Hinkley Point, and the people of Redcar still voted for them. Didn’t that give anyone in Labour HQ something to think about??? They don’t give a toss about jobs up there anymore. Most of them have never had a job that did more than stop them from starving.
Starmer and the Labour party offer them absolutely nothing. The bloke hasn't a clue what Hartlepool wants. In truth, Hartlepool stopped wanting or expecting any ecomomic miracle decades ago. Tory, Labour, Tory, Liberal coalitions... none of it made a tiny bit of difference to Teesside, and you can't blame these people for thinking nothing ever will change. They don't expect tech companies, financiers or front-end manufacturing to suddenly turn up, give them all a 500% pay rise and let them save for a dignified retirement.
Sadly though, Johnsons advisers do know what makes them tick. Kicking out foreigners is tangible. Booting out eastern European plasterers and brickies will do for the people of Hartlepool. At least somebody else is getting a kicking, right?
I'm not going to bother saying "until Labour understand this" because even if they did understand this, the truth of the matter is Hartlepool is fucked, and will remain fucked no matter who pretends to be ‘in charge’. That is a stone-cold economic fact.
With his Picaninnies and Letterbox comments, at least somebody is speaking to them in their own language, albeit with his ridiculous Eton accent. The left wont stoop that low, and rightly so! But stop fooling yourselves that Labour have any sort of economic model their sleeve that can resuscitate a town that was dead long, long ago and was barely even alive in the first place.
Is all the above awful? Yes, it is heartbreaking, xenophobic, terrible and cruel. But that is the way it is. And I know, because I used to live in Teesside. The only reasonable way to improve your life chances if you are from Hartlepool is to leave Hartlepool, but ironically, Brexit has made that way more difficult for anyone who understands the matter.
It’s a total shitshow up there man. In fact, the whole country is a s**t show. Heartbreaking, even for somebody who left 20 years ago.

Other than telling me the guy can't do basic maths (1997 to 2010 is not 20 years) this says it all boils down to racism. I didn't think we were allowed to claim that anymore.

Edit :by 'it' I mean the appeal of the Tories.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

well explained @Berliner

Absolutely - let's stop pretending that anyone anytime soon is going to do the slightest thing to significantly help communities like Hartlepool and all the others up and down the country that have had the s**t ripped out of them for decades now. Their votes have been cynically bought and they were an easy buy too, because as Jarvis Cocker once said "because there's nothing else to do".

Thank your lucky stars if you are lucky enough to live in an affluent area and are comfortably enough off to not have to endure that grind day on day on day with no sign of let up. It is laughable to pretend that this government has got their back, but it does have their vote!

 

[Eaststanding]

I think you are seeing desperation in the wrong context here and maybe my clumsy use of language. They will always remain desperate to prove they are in touch and connected when they clearly are not and have absolutely no concept of what it is like to live like the vast, vast majority. They and their chums in the right-leaning media have done a fantastically hypocritical job of painting the socialists as the champagne quaffing, Westminster bubble inhabiting liberal and metropolitan elite, when in reality, the Tory elite are far more guilty of all those things that and much much worse by being the champagne quaffing landed gentry who own most of the country and the town that the liberal elite supposedly inhabit.

So when it comes to looking down their noses and sneering at the proles while exploiting them - I know who has the longer charge sheet. It is a sleight of hand whataboutism that the Tory elite and the media have carried off to great effect.

But hey, as I said the other day, maybe Champagne Conservatism is just more aspirational than Champagne socialism

I don’t disagree, and when towns like Hartlepool have been let down by Labour, or conversely any other party with a 50 odd year tenure, I wonder how much those populations really care about the reputation or public perception of those politicians and whether they’re in touch or not when what they really want is a party to give them hope?
The voters aren’t stupid, they see and read about politicans every day, the scandals, the rumours, the finger pointing....all of which is sadly ‘normal’ to the media and sells their papers, so so much of that bullshit has to be ‘accepted’ by the public because if it wasn’t they‘d never vote for any party.

 

[Essexyellows]

I don’t disagree, and when towns like Hartlepool have been let down by Labour, or conversely any other party with a 50 odd year tenure, I wonder how much those populations really care about the reputation or public perception of those politicians and whether they’re in touch or not when what they really want is a party to give them hope?
The voters aren’t stupid, they see and read about politicans every day, the scandals, the rumours, the finger pointing....all of which is sadly ‘normal’ to the media and sells their papers, so so much of that bullshit has to be ‘accepted’ by the public because if it wasn’t they‘d never vote for any party.

And which party projects a more optimistic & hopeful message?
Irrespective of your personal view that it`s smoke and mirrors but it's the Conservative party.
Taking a look at the County Council map of results so far that blue wall is becoming blue flooring as well.

How Labour reacts will define the next decade and beyond.
I would like to see them come out with some clear policies for Britain and not be "ashamed" of being British.
Ditch all the woke/liberal messaging and be straight with the electorate rather than seeking minorities to appease.

 

[holdsteady]

So according to middle class liberals if you are white and working class and you vote conservative it’s because you are a racist and come from a doomed area and a degenerate family?

It’s a load of B*****s, most of the underclass don’t vote, they are like students in that respect, the people who voted in the former red wall constitutes have jobs and want the best for there families, nothing more to it than that and they have seen Labour follow the Lib Dem’s into more and more ludicrous political stances to chase a mythical twitter vote which doesn’t account for much other than a lot of loud shouting, the obsession with social media has done more damage to the centre left than anything else other than the inability to move on from Brexit.

If you want to understand white working class England, and Labour can’t get elected without it, the last places you want to look are the Guardian and Twitter.

 

[QR]

they have seen Labour follow the Lib Dem’s into more and more ludicrous political stances to chase

Or you don't do well in politics if you have principles and standards. Better to lie because you'll get away with it.

 

[Essexyellows]

So according to middle class liberals if you are white and working class and you vote conservative it’s because you are a racist and come from a doomed area and a degenerate family?

It’s a load of B*****s, most of the underclass don’t vote, they are like students in that respect, the people who voted in the former red wall constitutes have jobs and want the best for there families, nothing more to it than that and they have seen Labour follow the Lib Dem’s into more and more ludicrous political stances to chase a mythical twitter vote which doesn’t account for much other than a lot of loud shouting, the obsession with social media has done more damage to the centre left than anything else other than the inability to move on from Brexit.

If you want to understand white working class England, and Labour can’t get elected without it, the last places you want to look are the Guardian and Twitter.

That too!! And I get called out for calling it Twatter.

Likes and retweets aren`t votes..... although some may wish they were!

 

[holdsteady]

Or you don't do well in politics if you have principles and standards. Better to lie because you'll get away with it.

If you don’t do well in an election blame the electorate seems a shite way to do better in elections, but it should get you a few likes and retweet’s on Twitter.

 

[Eaststanding]

And which party projects a more optimistic & hopeful message?
Irrespective of your personal view that it`s smoke and mirrors but it's the Conservative party.
Taking a look at the County Council map of results so far that blue wall is becoming blue flooring as well.

How Labour reacts will define the next decade and beyond.
I would like to see them come out with some clear policies for Britain and not be "ashamed" of being British.
Ditch all the woke/liberal messaging and be straight with the electorate rather than seeking minorities to appease.

Indeed, and even though the public know there’s going to be some bluster and bullshit in there, give them some hope and positivity.
Make no mistake, this is a huge spanking for Labour and the party is in disarray, it’s a long, long way back for them....again.
Back to the drawing board but they need to get on with it, it’s nearly not funny any more......

 

[QR]

If you don’t do well in an election blame the electorate seems a shite way to do better in elections, but it should get you a few likes and retweet’s on Twitter.

I'm not saying I sign up to all their particular principles but I can't deny they have them and it doesn't seem to do them any good. It hinders them. It's a lot easy and rewarding to tell the electorate, the majority of whom don't seem to have a real interest in politics, what they want to hear.

 

[SteMerritt]

One I'm sure @Essexyellows will appreciate...

https://www.facebook.com/470137386504043/posts/1742966482554454

 

[Essexyellows]

Can`t see much red wall yet.......

 

[ubermeistervonmeat]

Don't be soft! Moral fibre doesn't get the job done.

Any half-decent disciple of Bojo and the Tories would know that!

Which I most certainly am not

 

[QR]

I would like to see them come out with some clear policies for Britain and not be "ashamed" of being British.

Who are you to tell other people they are ashamed to be British?! They might be ashamed that Johnson and his cronies are British.

 

[Essexyellows]

Who are you to tell other people they are ashamed to be British?! They might be ashamed that Johnson and his cronies are British.

Hence the commas, it is the message that Labour put out whereas the Conservative party are far more positive.

And then there is this.... from your favourite source.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1390623411026731008

 

[ttg17]

Who are you to tell other people they are ashamed to be British?! They might be ashamed that Johnson and his cronies are British.

Absolutely. It's ridiculous that the statute-worshippers and flag-shaggers have claimed 'being British'.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Copied this below from the BTL comments on the Guardian. Perhaps the best summary of the situation I've seen and as someone who grew up just down the coast right on the money. EDITED TO ADD: The comment below isn't from me personally.:

What left wing media fails to understand about Hartlepool is just how broken that place is.
The people that write these articles have absolutely no idea what it is like to come from a family where there are three generations that have never had gainful employment. I grew up in Teesside, and know firsthand that the government statistics on crime and unemployment are complete and utter B*****s. Until you've been sold a sixteenth of hash by a 10 year old through the front window of a terraced house, you really need shup about how you ‘understand the people of that region’.
Hartlepool isn't London. There is generational poverty everywhere you turn. Literally nobody on housing estate after housing estate owns 'assets'. The mere suggestion they ever could is laughable.
And Hartlepool is not in the least bit multi-cultural. The constant TV adverts with mixed race families tossing salad on a plush lawn mean absolutely nothing to them. Those 'other' people simply do not exist in Hartlepool. For Christs sake, they don't trust people from Billingham, never mind Romania.
You just don't get it do you? Keir Starmer swanning in his suit and side parting pretending he understands them, and telling them "what the people of Hartlepool need are jobs" when his party pressed on with trickledown economics and deregulation and resoundingly failed to create a single job up there in 20 years of power, and huge swathes of that community have never worked, and thousands more work shitty hours in shitty jobs that hold them a millimeter above the poverty line. They always will be in working poverty. They know that.
For christ sake, 10 miles down the road in Redcar, the Tories shut down the Steel Mill in order to cut a deal with the Chinese over Hinkley Point, and the people of Redcar still voted for them. Didn’t that give anyone in Labour HQ something to think about??? They don’t give a toss about jobs up there anymore. Most of them have never had a job that did more than stop them from starving.
Starmer and the Labour party offer them absolutely nothing. The bloke hasn't a clue what Hartlepool wants. In truth, Hartlepool stopped wanting or expecting any ecomomic miracle decades ago. Tory, Labour, Tory, Liberal coalitions... none of it made a tiny bit of difference to Teesside, and you can't blame these people for thinking nothing ever will change. They don't expect tech companies, financiers or front-end manufacturing to suddenly turn up, give them all a 500% pay rise and let them save for a dignified retirement.
Sadly though, Johnsons advisers do know what makes them tick. Kicking out foreigners is tangible. Booting out eastern European plasterers and brickies will do for the people of Hartlepool. At least somebody else is getting a kicking, right?
I'm not going to bother saying "until Labour understand this" because even if they did understand this, the truth of the matter is Hartlepool is fucked, and will remain fucked no matter who pretends to be ‘in charge’. That is a stone-cold economic fact.
With his Picaninnies and Letterbox comments, at least somebody is speaking to them in their own language, albeit with his ridiculous Eton accent. The left wont stoop that low, and rightly so! But stop fooling yourselves that Labour have any sort of economic model their sleeve that can resuscitate a town that was dead long, long ago and was barely even alive in the first place.
Is all the above awful? Yes, it is heartbreaking, xenophobic, terrible and cruel. But that is the way it is. And I know, because I used to live in Teesside. The only reasonable way to improve your life chances if you are from Hartlepool is to leave Hartlepool, but ironically, Brexit has made that way more difficult for anyone who understands the matter.
It’s a total shitshow up there man. In fact, the whole country is a s**t show. Heartbreaking, even for somebody who left 20 years ago.

Annoyingly this guy kind of hits the nail on the head, but simultaneously falls into his own trap by patronising his townspeople and displaying his true colours.

There seems to be a constant narrative that "the people from the estates don't know what they're voting for" or "the people from the estates are being manipulated" as if the commenter is some sort of all-seeing entity.

Unfortunately being from Hartlepool doesn't excuse you from being a patronising a**e.

 

[QR]

As an aside, didn't think I would but I'm enjoying the results coming through at a more leisurely pace over a Friday evening. And more to come tomorrow.... and Sunday... and Monday. I may have lost my enthusiasm by then.

 

[ttg17]

And which party projects a more optimistic & hopeful message?
Irrespective of your personal view that it`s smoke and mirrors but it's the Conservative party.
Taking a look at the County Council map of results so far that blue wall is becoming blue flooring as well.

How Labour reacts will define the next decade and beyond.
I would like to see them come out with some clear policies for Britain and not be "ashamed" of being British.
Ditch all the woke/liberal messaging and be straight with the electorate rather than seeking minorities to appease.

The thing with this (and I know it's already been mentioned and we're just going in circles), but, if the 2019 results are anything to go by, around a half of the country are liberal. At the last election, the Conservatives and the Brexit Party won 45.6% of votes. A Labour led by Jeremy Corbyn, the Lib Dems and the Greens, the main left-leaning parties, won 46.4% (according to the BBC - Wikipedia actually has the Lib Dems getting an even higher percentage, but I suspect their numbers are off).

I'm not going to use this as evidence that the majority of the country is left-leaning (much as I would like that to be so!), as it's obviously far more multi-faceted and complicated than that, but at the very least it's evidence that the 'woke liberal' messaging of the left appeals to around half the country. It's the ridiculous FPTP system we have that rewards the right so generously.