How to complete the season

[Marked Ox]

I would counter that and say all the current rules could be out.

I doubt that one will, at least for a while, and watching a game on City's pitch is an awful experience because it has been so badly done and that rubber crumb.

 

[Marked Ox]

This season is over. What is being discussed is whether next season can take place

If next season can't happen then any short period available should be used to finish this season.

 

[QR]

Furthermore, they should take the steps right now to say that no fans will be able to attend next season. Be proactive and remove that possibility right now - make the call and sidestep any nonsense down the road. Stream all games without restriction to all territories, and offer two price points for season passes - home only and home plus away. Plus one-off single game purchase stays as an option, obviously. The uptake will be huge as it’s the only way people can view the game, so you know what volume you’re likely to be dealing with and therefore revenue becomes simplified. Also, it comes with much lower costs. Virtually no match day staff what so ever - the economics can suddenly be done on the back of a fag packet. All grounds in the EFL can facilitate streams as standard; all of the highlights you see on TV are delivered back to a central location digitally via a hardwired, super-speed connection, which all EFL stadiums need to have as members. The handful of clubs who don’t offer iFollow purchases at all, and there really aren’t many, opt out of selling the stream because they’re old fashioned and think it will harm attendances in the stadium, rather than not having the capability. The system and facilities already exist at every single stadium in all EFL divisions - they only need to set a solid price point and unlock UK IPs for purchase. That’s it. The foundations have been in for years.

Most clubs would actually make more money from one season of streaming only than they currently do staging matches in front of crowds. The volume of signups would be enormous and even at a discount versus traditional match ticket prices, the profit is increased due to almost no costs in staging the event. More than this, the fan is saving a fortune. I’ve worked out that my season ticket plus average spend in travel and food and drink, so just home games alone, is over £800 per season. I go to probably 15 away games per season on top, which between tickets and all travel costs is well over £1,000 per season extra. So I’m at around £2,000 of annual football spend already, and there are thousands who spend just as much as I do, plus thousands more who don’t but still spend a very significant amount of money. If you have a season ticket for £300 and don’t touch away games, you’ll probably find that by the time you add in match day spend you’re racking up over £500 per season even with a very modest spend, and even if you miss a few fixtures. Minimum. So would I pay £350 to watch every home match with commentary? Damn right I would. Would basically everybody who goes? Yep. Also, because it’s available in this scenario, would thousands of UK fans who can’t currently attend home games for whatever reason sign up? Hands down. And would I pay a second £350 to watch every away game too? In a heartbeat, as would many others who travel regularly and now that the options is there, so would many others who can’t go away but would gladly watch if available to buy. I’m saving a fortune - everybody is. But the price of viewing, times volume of customers, minus unnecessary matchday costs = more money than clubs would make normally. There is a very real, very manageable opportunity to make next season the most lucrative in terms of revenue. It’s a (hopefully) once in a lifetime moment.

Football has needed dragging into the modern world for years. This is its chance. People will go back in the future - this “ooooh, if we let people stream they won’t come to the games anymore!” is absolute dog s**t. It simply isn’t true. All it’s doing is locking out consumers and squandering revenue. People will go to football if they can - that is safe. The notion that no one is going to the stadium again if we let streaming happen is the backwards mindset of a bunch of wealthy old blokes sitting around a table who can barely use Sky Go, and who don’t even know what a VPN is. They’re categorically wrong and the fact that they get paid what they do to run the game is an absolute outrage. They’ve got no business being near the damn sport, let alone controlling its finances and regulations. This is a chance to lock down next season, keep it safe and get a tight grip on finances, improve revenues in a booming stay at home economy, and then in the future we can finally have some common sense and live in a world where streaming and attending live games can actually co-exist, and where morons who don’t know what they’re on about can drop this idea that someone watching a game on a laptop in Darlington is going to kill the game.

They’ve got the time to get this right and all the infrastructure is in place. Which is exactly why they won’t even think of it.

It's not something I've thought a lot about to be honest but I can't think of a working alternative to your suggestion. There is much uptapped interest out there that could bring significant new income into clubs. That said this that will not be a complete bed of roses and the extent of its success will depend on the actual income generated across the game.

It is likely this will be more beneficial to us that others because we don't own our ground and therefore make very little from the commercial initiatives going on around the stadium on match day (and non match days). Tottenham have spent millions turning its new ground into a money making machine. Could all that lost income be recouped? So at worst it might reset the relative incomes of clubs.

Longevity. This definitely needs to be a big part of football and clubs income once things get back 'normall' ?. But, should we go for more than a year with empty grounds I wonder what impact it will have in bringing on the new younger supporters. Without that incredible impact on your senses of the match day experience will the young be drawn in the same numbers to smaller clubs when The Prems 'on the other channel'?

Finally I think any scheme will have to layout at the get go what would happen to punters' prepaid streaming passes should the season be halted again.

But will they listen?

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Good post Ryan. I will add a couple of points though. There is an argument that whether football and other sports, without crowds, is less of a spectacle and would dent appeal.

I agree that the crowds make football what it is, but if it’s a choice between this or no football at all, and possibly no Oxford United beyond that, what supporter of any kind is going to ignore it? I struggle to comprehend any fan shunning it and dooming the club in the process.

Also, we haven't really started to feel the economic impact of the virus yet, when it does people will look to minimize their expense.

Of course, couldn’t agree more that we are yet to see the state of play financially, but that’s going to be the case anyway. More people can afford to stream the match than can afford to attend it - whatever will be will be on that front. In a world where financial ruin strikes, this is still the best chance at revenue. You take the people who can afford to go and physically attend, and the people who can afford to go but can’t physically attend, and put them into one pot.

We are starting to see a drop in transfer prices as clubs simply won't be able to pay the wage costs.

A lot of clubs are starting to panic because they don’t know where their next bit of revenue is coming from. One season of streaming only which gives clarity in terms of games being able to take place, also allows for one of the most easily calculated seasons in history financially. When you reduce revenue to essentially one large stream with fewer outgoings than ever to boot, you know more or less exactly where you are and can plan accordingly.

It isn’t perfect, but after what’s happened it’s really important that football finds a way to protect its ability to complete fixtures, and to ensure that revenue continues to flow, as quickly as it possibly can. I really hope they’re looking at this seriously and running the numbers, but having a basic knowledge and experience of how football works and how the people who are usually in charge think, I highly doubt it. Let’s see...

 

[RyanioBirdio]

It is likely this will be more beneficial to us that others because we don't own our ground and therefore make very little from the commercial initiatives going on around the stadium on match day (and non match days). Tottenham have spent millions turning its new ground into a money making machine. Could all that lost income be recouped? So at worst it might reset the relative incomes of clubs.

You’re absolutely right, but what’s the alternative? Does anybody really believe a football stadium filled with any meaningful amount of people is something we can or will see for the next year? Concert promoters are preparing for the possibility of staging no concerts in venues until vaccination. Football is at a crossroads here - be proactive and protect the ability to stage fixtures and the ability of clubs to make money, or just follow the crowd and end up with already crippled clubs selling season tickets that they then have to refund a month or two later, and then scramble like mad to make sure the streaming is up to scratch when everybody is pissed off?

The Premier League will be fine. A season behind closed doors would probably generate more money and higher viewing figures than anyone has ever dreamed of. It’s going to go that way regardless - you’re not getting 60,000 people at Spurs again for donkeys. It’s already widely acknowledged that even in a month or two if people are slowly allowed to make their way outside, social distancing will still be a thing until they’ve conquered this thing. We’ll have to queue to get into shops, offices will have smaller capacity, even plane companies are saying they’ll have to basically scrap middle seats, all for the foreseeable. Stadiums of football fans sitting / standing shoulder to shoulder, screaming and shouting and singing, spraying droplets of saliva all over the shop... it won’t be allowed.

 

[QR]

You’re absolutely right, but what’s the alternative? Does anybody really believe a football stadium filled with any meaningful amount of people is something we can or will see for the next year? Concert promoters are preparing for the possibility of staging no concerts in venues until vaccination. Football is at a crossroads here - be proactive and protect the ability to stage fixtures and the ability of clubs to make money, or just follow the crowd and end up with already crippled clubs selling season tickets that they then have to refund a month or two later, and then scramble like mad to make sure the streaming is up to scratch when everybody is pissed off?

The Premier League will be fine. A season behind closed doors would probably generate more money and higher viewing figures than anyone has ever dreamed of. It’s going to go that way regardless - you’re not getting 60,000 people at Spurs again for donkeys. It’s already widely acknowledged that even in a month or two if people are slowly allowed to make their way outside, social distancing will still be a thing until they’ve conquered this thing. We’ll have to queue to get into shops, offices will have smaller capacity, even plane companies are saying they’ll have to basically scrap middle seats, all for the foreseeable. Stadiums of football fans sitting / standing shoulder to shoulder, screaming and shouting and singing, spraying droplets of saliva all over the shop... it won’t be allowed.

You missed my opening line.. I said there is no alternative. I'm supportive. ?I was just pointing out some of the challenges.

 

[Manorlounger]

No, no, dearest Matthew, you’re looking at this the wrong way...

We pay the rent anyway, and our only revenue is from match tickets. Firoz Kassam is the one who loses with a season behind closed doors. The club could make as much money as it normally would have, if not more, through online streaming, but he can’t. No kiosks in the concourses, no quad bar, no hospitality services, no burger vans paying rent, no people in the hotels on match day, or the other units he rents to people... he’s the one who misses out. We pay the money to play matches and use internal office space - that is our lot. Our only revenue is selling tickets for the match. He takes everything else. If we don’t choose to sell tickets, or aren’t able to, there’s nothing he can do about that. He loses match day revenue - ours simply moves online. We take our money because in a world where all focus and revenue comes from viewing the game digitally, it’s the only side to the match day experience that possesses any demand. That pesky lease of his completely flips on its head in a world where people don’t physically go to the stadium. In that world, Oxford United controls 100% of revenue. Pay him his rent - fine. Whatever. That’s his only money. He’s lost a fortune.

The only way his lease becomes a disaster, rather than a total master stroke, is in the event of some sort of global pandemic where society grinds to a halt and people don’t leave their houses.

Well. Lookie here.

I'd be cheering to the rooftops if this were all 100% but, sadly, all the outlets, such as Farr's, have all signed agreements to pay a fixed rate to FK. It doesn't matter to him if we play, don't play, play with spectators or without. His income is already secured. The only minor loss would be the sale of alcohol from the two bars in the stadium. Likewise with the hotels, they all pay him, much the same as OUFC, a licence fee. 100% occupancy or 0% they still pay. He can even get his company, Firoka, to furlough all their employees and reduce any outlay he might have incurred. (same for all his other ventures)

 

[Manorlounger]

Wycombe chairman calls for end to season

Wycombe chairman Rob Couhig would rather start a new League One season in August than finish the current campaign behind closed doors.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sorts out third place then?

 

[Northstandboy]

Its not just the players on the pitch, its all the facilities staff and the support network needed. TV cameras, operators, equipment etc etc

This season is finished, they just need to sort out the end play.
It has to finish before it has a greater knock on consequence for next season.
We can`t re-start some fudge/play off mini league in late July/August when a new season is due to start in early/mid August.

Clubs somehow stream each game now on iFollow, seems they have work experience kids judging by some of the camera work.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I'd be cheering to the rooftops if this were all 100% but, sadly, all the outlets, such as Farr's, have all signed agreements to pay a fixed rate to FK. It doesn't matter to him if we play, don't play, play with spectators or without. His income is already secured. The only minor loss would be the sale of alcohol from the two bars in the stadium. Likewise with the hotels, they all pay him, much the same as OUFC, a licence fee. 100% occupancy or 0% they still pay. He can even get his company, Firoka, to furlough all their employees and reduce any outlay he might have incurred. (same for all his other ventures)

You’ll be right on some of this, others will have caveats that aren’t as black and white. He would be affected more than the club regardless, even if it only came down to a few cash bars. And it would annoy the hell out of him.

At least he would have a genuine excuse not to clean the concourse toilets.

 

[holdsteady]

If next season can't happen then any short period available should be used to finish this season.

What are they going to pay the players with?

The truth is that if next season doesn’t happen again in some sort of form then most clubs will go under, getting money in for next season is more important at our level than making very little money in finishing this season at some time in the next 12 months.

 

[Marked Ox]

What are they going to pay the players with?

The truth is that if next season doesn’t happen again in some sort of form then most clubs will go under, getting money in for next season is more important at our level than making very little money in finishing this season at some time in the next 12 months.

At least there'd be income from iFollow. My response was to a post saying that basically next season is in doubt.

 

[Wallop]

Wycombe chairman calls for end to season

Wycombe chairman Rob Couhig would rather start a new League One season in August than finish the current campaign behind closed doors.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sorts out third place then?

There is no suggestion in that article of how you sort out the current standings. Rather he's saying that playing behind closed doors 'makes no financial sense to a club like Wycombe'. That statement from a L1 Chairman does go against Ryan's suggestions that playing behind closed doors with streaming might be the way forward.

 

[Sarge]

video conference type meeting ongoing right now ...

 

[Manorlounger]

There is no suggestion in that article of how you sort out the current standings. Rather he's saying that playing behind closed doors 'makes no financial sense to a club like Wycombe'. That statement from a L1 Chairman does go against Ryan's suggestions that playing behind closed doors with streaming might be the way forward.

A little tongue in cheek perhaps.
I was thinking more along the lines of ending the season and utilising a points per game average to sort out places.
Apologies if you thought I was being 100% serious!

 

[horseman]

How many who attend a game will take it up...i just don't see many on the days walk ups bothering and then you'll also have Groups of mates watching in one place = less income.
As 've mentioned before the leisure pound was already stretched and with people losing 20% of their income in a best case scenario where does the money come from? Long term the 80% the Government are now paying some people will need to be clawed back and so that = even less leisure spend..This is going to have an affect on people for a very long time and have a knock on affect for many Leisure industries,High st shops Restaurants etc.

 

[Wallop]

A little tongue in cheek perhaps.
I was thinking more along the lines of ending the season and utilising a points per game average to sort out places.
Apologies if you thought I was being 100% serious!

Sorry ML - my statement wasn't aimed at your comment, it was aimed at the article which makes no reference to any suggestion about what happens to the current standings and also seemed contrary to RB's suggestions about playing behind closed doors whilst streaming. The Wycombe Chairman may have provided more detail in his statement but the BBC article doesn't include it if he did. I do like the way he uses the word 'Heck' a lot. Dang it!

 

[RyanioBirdio]

That statement from a L1 Chairman does go against Ryan's suggestions that playing behind closed doors with streaming might be the way forward.

He never mentioned the idea of mass streaming with sanctions on purchase removed - his statement was made on the assumption of behind closed doors meaning basically no revenue from anything, and it was said in reference only to this season’s remaining few games. He’s also talking as though by August / September this thing will be largely taken care of. He’s a typical American peddling the idea that the virus will go away in a couple of months and then we can all get back to normal ready for next season - he outright says as much. He thinks next season it’ll be like nothing happened. Probably a Trump supporter. There will be no spectators this year - he is ignoring that fact.

Another rabbit chaser, it seems. But then most of the footballing powerbrokers are!

 

[Wallop]

He never mentioned the idea of mass streaming with sanctions on purchase removed - his statement was made on the assumption of behind closed doors meaning basically no revenue from anything, and it was said in reference only to this season’s remaining few games. He’s also talking as though by August / September this thing will be largely taken care of. He’s a typical American peddling the idea that the virus will go away in a couple of months and then we can all get back to normal ready for next season - he outright says as much. He thinks next season it’ll be like nothing happened. Probably a Trump supporter. There will be no spectators this year - he is ignoring that fact.

Another rabbit chaser, it seems. But then most of the footballing powerbrokers are!

Maybe although you infer a lot from his words. There has been a lot of discussion amongst the EFL clubs about how any closed doors scenario would work and the current assumption is that ST holders would get a free iFollow pass for their club's matches with the games streamed as PPV for any non-ST holders who wanted to buy them. As he is the Wycombe Chairman, I think I can realistically infer that he would be aware of this.

 

[MalaysiaYellow]

What are they going to pay the players with?

The truth is that if next season doesn’t happen again in some sort of form then most clubs will go under, getting money in for next season is more important at our level than making very little money in finishing this season at some time in the next 12 months.

That's very true. Banks are already pulling back on their exposures so unlikely to extend LoC's and overdrafts.

I don't think the EFL will let clubs go bust unless there is no penalty to them and its financially viable.

If players don't get paid, I believe they could cancel there contracts for breach of contract and become free agents.