How to complete the season

[South London]

Question for South London and Wanderer as it concerns their club.

Why wasn't Coventry v Wycombe (postponed from 25 Jan) not played on 18 Feb or 10 March. Neither team had a game that day and Birmingham City didn't either so the pitch was available. Oxford were told to cram in their postponed games on the first available midweek date which is why we played 9 matches in February. So why didn't Cov v Wyc get played? Seems to be no reason why it should not have been played as there were dates available. And now not doing so has caused an imbalance in the number of games played by the top of the table teams. Wycombe would have had to have beaten Coventry to be 3rd in the table, a draw was not going to be enough, but an unweighted PPG gives more that one point and enough to take 3rd.

I have no idea, I wasn’t privy to the discussions between the two clubs at the time.

It’s also worth noting that we were due to play Bury on the 7th March and had we done so we would be level on games with the majority of teams in League One.

 

[christenedinjericho]

John Mousinho’s actions to get Akinfenwa sent off could also be described as ‘anti football’ embarrassing.

Wycombe have done wonders on a shoe string budget to have had the season that they’ve had. WWFC didn’t invent covid and the subsequent mess that league one is in, they are also acting admirably with their chairman preferring the season to be voided as opposed to playing in front of empty stadiums. They aren’t looking to profit from this situation unlike the likes of Darragh MacAnthony.

We didn't invent it either. Now if it was first past the post in the conventional way it would be the top three as it stood at the close of play when it was halted no matter who thought what...unless someone somewhere knew different. I'm sure GA and it's board members didn't want to go down the playoff route because they stand more of a chance of getting a shoe in (or a shoestring your word) than playing out with the big guns and probably ending up more even more deflated than they were feeling before the lockdown.

As for some of our posters saying the top two should go up and forget about the rest I do wander what the posters real message is here. The club before lockdown was at its best position for years and to have your legs swept away and your hard work smashed you probably ought to go into the oufc's training ground when the chance evolves and have a one to twenty one chat with them all about chucking the towel in...virtual or not.

 

[Jason N]

I don't think our form is as bad as you think. We'd just had Onyedinma (our best player) back from an injury experienced on October 5th (he missed almost all of the season). We had a nice run in. And we were still picking up wins in half of our matches when we were supposedly plummeting down the league

Besides, you can't predict our last 10 games based on current form anyway. Oxford are the case in point: you impressively won 5 matches in a row before lockdown. But who on this forum would have predicted that after you lost at home to Sunderland, the culmination of a patch of just one win over the previous eight games before your winning run started?

Honest answer, who has the easiest run-in:

Wycombe:
Oxford Home
Shrews Away
Rotherham Home
Sarfend Away
Wimbledon Home
Lincoln Away
Gillingham Home
Accrington Away
Coventry Away

Oxford:
MK Dons Home
Wycombe Away
Portsmouth Home
Rochdale Away
Bristol Home
Coventry Away
Fleetwood Home
Tranmere Away
Bolton Home

Oxford form : won 5 lost 1
Wycombe form: won 3 lost 3

You have 5 away games to play. You've only won 4 away games out of 16 so far this season!! You might get one win out of your remaining away games and you are realistically likely to win only 1 of your remaining 4 home games.

 

[South London]

We didn't invent it either. Now if it was first past the post in the conventional way it would be the top three as it stood at the close of play when it was halted no matter who thought what...unless someone somewhere knew different. I'm sure GA and it's board members didn't want to go down the playoff route because they stand more of a chance of getting a shoe in (or a shoestring your word) than playing out with the big guns and probably ending up more even more deflated than they were feeling before the lockdown.

As for some of our posters saying the top two should go up and forget about the rest I do wander what the posters real message is here. The club before lockdown was at its best position for years and to have your legs swept away and your hard work smashed you probably ought to go into the oufc's training ground when the chance evolves and have a one to twenty one chat with them all about chucking the towel in...virtual or not.

It’s upto the clubs and the EFL to decide the way forward.

If we were to have this multi team play off situation then yes it’s going to be difficult for clubs like Wycombe and Oxford to overcome the big guns and gain promotion.

 

[Mellowyellow]

Honest answer, who has the easiest run-in:

Wycombe:
Oxford Home
Shrews Away
Rotherham Home
Sarfend Away
Wimbledon Home
Lincoln Away
Gillingham Home
Accrington Away
Coventry Away

Oxford:
MK Dons Home
Wycombe Away
Portsmouth Home
Rochdale Away
Bristol Home
Coventry Away
Fleetwood Home
Tranmere Away
Bolton Home

Oxford form : won 5 lost 1
Wycombe form: won 3 lost 3

You have 5 away games to play. You've only won 4 away games out of 16 so far this season!! You might get one win out of your remaining away games and you are realistically likely to win only 1 of your remaining 4 home games.

Can you imagine Coventry away, electric it would have been, electric!

 

[South London]

Honest answer, who has the easiest run-in:

Wycombe:
Oxford Home
Shrews Away
Rotherham Home
Sarfend Away
Wimbledon Home
Lincoln Away
Gillingham Home
Accrington Away
Coventry Away

Oxford:
MK Dons Home
Wycombe Away
Portsmouth Home
Rochdale Away
Bristol Home
Coventry Away
Fleetwood Home
Tranmere Away
Bolton Home

Oxford form : won 5 lost 1
Wycombe form: won 3 lost 3

You have 5 away games to play. You've only won 4 away games out of 16 so far this season!! You might get one win out of your remaining away games and you are realistically likely to win only 1 of your remaining 4 home games.

Likely to win only 1 of our 4 home games? Have you seen our home form? It’s superb.

I’d have backed us to beat Rotherham again and to beat you lot. Two real six pointers and they would have been important victories for us.

 

[SteMerritt]

Sod it, let's just promote the top 2, play-off single game for 3rd, Oxford v Wycombe, the PPG tie-break game, and be done with it.

 

[horseman]

We didn't invent it either. Now if it was first past the post in the conventional way it would be the top three as it stood at the close of play when it was halted no matter who thought what...unless someone somewhere knew different. I'm sure GA and it's board members didn't want to go down the playoff route because they stand more of a chance of getting a shoe in (or a shoestring your word) than playing out with the big guns and probably ending up more even more deflated than they were feeling before the lockdown.

As for some of our posters saying the top two should go up and forget about the rest I do wander what the posters real message is here. The club before lockdown was at its best position for years and to have your legs swept away and your hard work smashed you probably ought to go into the oufc's training ground when the chance evolves and have a one to twenty one chat with them all about chucking the towel in...virtual or not.

who suggested it's about throwing the towel in?

If you take your biased hat off a moment explain to me why a team in 3rd in League 1 is entitled to be promoted when 3rd-6th does not guarantee promotion?

The thought process is how we end the season and if the powers that be had the balls to make a decision there would be no debate.

i've stated my position from the off and that will never change regardless of which team i support, The Fact before us that no team with a game in hand can reach an auto place or escape a relegation spot...Promote those in the Auto places, scrap the play offs and then adjust relegation places accordingly is the most logical easy way and is fair to all and avoids any lawsuits etc because as stated 3rd-6th did not guarantee promotion so there is no argument to have.

i suspect if we were 4th 5th 7th or wherever nobody would say promote the team in 3rd

 

[yellowbow]

Sod it, let's just promote the top 2, play-off single game for 3rd, Oxford v Wycombe, the PPG tie-break game, and be done with it.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Belgium Yellow]

Sod it, let's just promote the top 2, play-off single game for 3rd, Oxford v Wycombe, the PPG tie-break game, and be done with it.

Down side of that is that they'd use that match forever to claim some sort of historic rivalry.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I have no idea, I wasn’t privy to the discussions between the two clubs at the time.

It’s also worth noting that we were due to play Bury on the 7th March and had we done so we would be level on games with the majority of teams in League One.

So is this yet another example of the EFL being weak, inconsistent and incompetent? This is a directive from the EFL which Oxford had to comply with in February but it seems the EFL didn't apply the same rules for other clubs. And they should be doing absolutely no extra favours to Coventry having already given them a huge favour in July to even allow them to start the season.

Even if they let only 2 be promoted I can see the likes of Peterborough and Sunderland or the 3rd bottom place from the Championship launching a legal challenge against Coventry going up when they won't have a ground to play on next season.

 

[SteMerritt]

As stated 3rd-6th did not guarantee promotion so there is no argument to have.

You could argue that nowhere does it state first or second with 9 games to go guarantees promotion either.

 

[Jason N]

Likely to win only 1 of our 4 home games? Have you seen our home form? It’s superb.

I’d have backed us to beat Rotherham again and to beat you lot. Two real six pointers and they would have been important victories for us.

You'd be lucky to beat Oxford, Gillingham and Rotherham at home.

Care to comment about your away form also?

 

[nige01ox]

And of course I'd be frustrated if you were bumped up into 3rd ahead of us. We have the third best PPG. Accounting for one variable without others would be frustrating

Except Oxford wouldn't be getting 'bumped' anywhere, would we? We are 3rd. And finish 3rd in the most scientifically fair method proposed to date. And no, 3rd is not ordinarily enough to achieve automatic promotion nor do I necessarily think whomever finishes there should be given it.

I get that there's quite a few on here that probably don't fully understand the maths behind it all and maybe think we're twisting things to suit us, but fortunately there are others like @ttg17, @AbsoluteZero, @chuckbert, @BigCrompy that do either have a scientific/data background or a strong grasp of the subject and see that when you delve a bit deeper one of the PPG methods becomes far more statistically relevant and fairer than the other. Now I personally have a heavy mathematical academic background, however I cannot claim to be a statistician in that it is not my job day in day out, nor do I have postgraduate qualifications in the subject. But there is a rather prestigious University just down the road that has plenty of such people, and it would honestly take them less than half an hour to draw up a watertight report that the Club could take to any judge in the country who would see and decide that one method has a far higher degree of fairness and accuracy than the other. Frankly, from a statistical perspective, unweighted PPG shouldn't even be in the discussion

Will be an interesting week ahead as we all wait to see what madness the EFL comes out with next.

 

[Wanderer]

Honest answer, who has the easiest run-in:

Wycombe:
Oxford Home
Shrews Away
Rotherham Home
Sarfend Away
Wimbledon Home
Lincoln Away
Gillingham Home
Accrington Away
Coventry Away

Oxford:
MK Dons Home
Wycombe Away
Portsmouth Home
Rochdale Away
Bristol Home
Coventry Away
Fleetwood Home
Tranmere Away
Bolton Home

Oxford form : won 5 lost 1
Wycombe form: won 3 lost 3

You have 5 away games to play. You've only won 4 away games out of 16 so far this season!! You might get one win out of your remaining away games and you are realistically likely to win only 1 of your remaining 4 home games.

It's probably about equal tbh, although opinions will differ

- You have 4 matches to play against the "Top 8" promotion contenders. We have 3
- You have 3 tough matches against relegation battling teams (AKA Tranmere, Wimbledon, MK, Accrington, Rochdale). We have 2
- We both have 1 left against no-hopers who are basically already relegated (Southend and Bolton)
- We have 4 left against mid-table "on the beach" teams (Gillingham, Shrews, Lincoln, Burton). You have just 1 (Bristol)

So if you looked at it purely based on the opposition team, we'd definitely have an easier run-in. But obviously we've got to play 6 matches away and 4 at home, whereas most of yours are at home, so it pretty much evens out. I think that's a fair analysis/categorisation of each team

 

[horseman]

You could argue that nowhere does it state first or second with 9 games to go guarantees promotion either.

My thought is based on where things are now and how to resolve this situation, of course it wont state that but the facts are that even at the end of a season 3rd-6th does not guarantee promotion and for anyone to state the 3rd place should be promoted is a very weak argument and is mentioned only because it would suit us whereas if we were 4th 5th 6th etc nobody would think it a good move.
This whole thing needs sorting Now because as i keep saying the moment another ball is kicked and anyone gets the symptoms you're in trouble and a decision would still have to be made only you will have complicated things further..The thought process should be about Next season and ensuring not one team goes to the wall.

 

[christenedinjericho]

It’s upto the clubs and the EFL to decide the way forward.

If we were to have this multi team play off situation then yes it’s going to be difficult for clubs like Wycombe and Oxford to overcome the big guns and gain promotion.

Love it...I knew you would be back with this ol' chestnut as I left the chair door open on purpose. Listen we have overcome all but two clubs to be in third place when the season was halted and whatever way any nobody has chosen to dress it up...the table my chairboy doesn't lie. And one more point (operative table word here) you should never be mentioned in the same breath as us.

 

[Jason N]

Sod it, let's just promote the top 2, play-off single game for 3rd, Oxford v Wycombe, the PPG tie-break game, and be done with it.

This is not such a bad idea. I've just compared the 3 EFL leagues finishes with weighted and unweighted PPG. The only 2 clubs affected are Oxford and Wycombe.

oooh.. and maybe get more cash from neutral iFollowers looking for their football fix.

 

[Wanderer]

Love it...I knew you would be back with this ol' chestnut as I left the chair door open on purpose. Listen we have overcome all but two clubs to be in third place when the season was halted and whatever way any nobody has chosen to dress it up...the table my chairboy doesn't lie. And one more point (operative table word here) you should never be mentioned in the same breath as us.

You are one point ahead of us having played one more game. The last time we'd played the same number of games, we were two points ahead???? You can hardly claim that you've "overcome" us. We've got a higher PPG, which is why you would be "bumped" above us if weighted PPG was used

 

[Sarge]

You are one point ahead of us having played one more game. The last time we'd played the same number of games, we were two points ahead???? You can hardly claim that you've "overcome" us. We've got a higher PPG, which is why you would be "bumped" above us if weighted PPG was used

shouldnt playing Bolton's weakened/ youth team - which Wycombe did, as did a few others, while Oxford, and many others didnt- in the interests of at least a semblance of 'fairness' be factored in to any PPG equations? I think it should