Sheik djibouti
Well-known member
- Joined
- 8 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 6,382
So the integration of all of these various European initiatives, agreements and institutions that have evolved over the last 75 odd years into one place under one common set of rules and definitions is a bad thing because........?
I get that you feel we've had no say in this, but you also admit that we have the ability to elect representatives to that Parliament every 5 years (much as we do to our own Parliament). They get to have a say in what the EU carries forward (much as MP's do in our own domestic parliament when bills are brought forward). Moreover, as a member state we can ultimately veto anything and vote against measures, regulations or directives we simply cannot live with....but how many times have we actually done that?
In our domestic parliament, if we don't like they way it is going, we can kick them out and maybe the government too if enough people think they same way. However - and here is the news.....you as an individual, get very little say whatsoever in what bills are brought forward, nor how your MP chooses ultimately to vote, based on the evidence presented or on the wishes of the party they represent. Would you like a peoples vote on the contents of the queens speech, I wonder?
I wonder if bills such as Universal Credit or the Bedroom Tax would've been passed into law if a plebiscite had been used to decide their fate?
And yet, you are saying this is the very thing the EU is guilty of - not putting decisions on legislative and policy matters back to the people...and this is why they are unaccountable...........really?
As for block voting, Politicians will pretty much always try to find a block to vote with because that is how they use their influence to best effect, regardless of if this is domestic or EU - sometimes they have to swallow hard to do that, sometimes they are lobbied and influenced by industry groups to do it, sometimes they are whipped into it and every now and again, they do so because that's what their constituents will tell them they want. But lets not kid ourselves that block voting is a phenomenon of EU politics.
When the opportunity arose, 17.4 million people decided that all these things that the EU do have an undue and negative influence on their everyday life and because that decision making process was too remote for them, it was a bad thing. You can hopefully understand why I and many others have such a problem with this point of view. Firstly, I would seriously question the negative impact, secondly I would seriously question the perception of how politics, either domestic or European is influenced by the electorate and thirdly, I would point out that the end result is that you will still have people who may not represent your views making decisions on and passing into law legislation you do not like and feel disenfranchised by.
As for the contribution. It would be fair to compare that to the size of our economy in global terms in comparison to other member state contributions. And is that 13% before or after our rebate
I get that you feel we've had no say in this, but you also admit that we have the ability to elect representatives to that Parliament every 5 years (much as we do to our own Parliament). They get to have a say in what the EU carries forward (much as MP's do in our own domestic parliament when bills are brought forward). Moreover, as a member state we can ultimately veto anything and vote against measures, regulations or directives we simply cannot live with....but how many times have we actually done that?
In our domestic parliament, if we don't like they way it is going, we can kick them out and maybe the government too if enough people think they same way. However - and here is the news.....you as an individual, get very little say whatsoever in what bills are brought forward, nor how your MP chooses ultimately to vote, based on the evidence presented or on the wishes of the party they represent. Would you like a peoples vote on the contents of the queens speech, I wonder?
I wonder if bills such as Universal Credit or the Bedroom Tax would've been passed into law if a plebiscite had been used to decide their fate?
And yet, you are saying this is the very thing the EU is guilty of - not putting decisions on legislative and policy matters back to the people...and this is why they are unaccountable...........really?
As for block voting, Politicians will pretty much always try to find a block to vote with because that is how they use their influence to best effect, regardless of if this is domestic or EU - sometimes they have to swallow hard to do that, sometimes they are lobbied and influenced by industry groups to do it, sometimes they are whipped into it and every now and again, they do so because that's what their constituents will tell them they want. But lets not kid ourselves that block voting is a phenomenon of EU politics.
When the opportunity arose, 17.4 million people decided that all these things that the EU do have an undue and negative influence on their everyday life and because that decision making process was too remote for them, it was a bad thing. You can hopefully understand why I and many others have such a problem with this point of view. Firstly, I would seriously question the negative impact, secondly I would seriously question the perception of how politics, either domestic or European is influenced by the electorate and thirdly, I would point out that the end result is that you will still have people who may not represent your views making decisions on and passing into law legislation you do not like and feel disenfranchised by.
As for the contribution. It would be fair to compare that to the size of our economy in global terms in comparison to other member state contributions. And is that 13% before or after our rebate
