National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[IsleofWightYellow]

And how will the votes be counted then?

Are you suggesting adding up all the Leave options against Remain?

Then going with the larger of the three Leave options?

So, based on the previous referendum, the 52% gets split 3 ways...... but one of them, possibly as few as 34% of Leave voters alone gets to decide the exit route for the country?

Yes, that’s the minimum possible. In the same way that by having the In-Out referendum we had, as few as 50.1% of voters (or, as it was, about 25% of the country) could have a say on our future. That’s just how it goes.

Or, more likely, 60%+ of leave voters would pick one of the deals and then it would have a clear mandate.

 

[Essexyellows]

Under the remain box you put the 3 leave options as well. If leave wins, the entire electorate then has a say in how to leave. It's pretty simple.

As it currently stands the remain vote has a "voice" and can contribute to the debate.

On the "3 Leave" options they would have no voice, because a voter would have to vote leave to have a say in how we leave.
Ergo said ballot would be unfair/unlawful.

Everyone needs to accept that we are leaving and there needs to be a deal reached, or we leave without!

 

[Essexyellows]

Who are you replying to?

I`m assuming it wasn`t me. ? ?

 

[sadoldsod1778]

Not you Pete .
SARGE

 

[SteMerritt]

how will the votes be counted then?

Personally I'd go for Hex, Binary can get a bit long with big numbers. I expect the bloody government will go with Base-10 though.

 

[Sarge]

Not you Pete .
SARGE

And your an ardent remainder anyone right of JC is a right wing henchmen sums you up;

Sorry to disappoint, but actually I'm not an ardent remainer as it happens

I'm quite liberal (small letter l ) in my general outlook ... which kinda shoots down your erroneous assumption that, "anyone right of JC is a rightwing henchman sums me up" - a bit more work required on mastering your Jedi mindreading skills required yet?

my major concern is how, since the current Tory leader 'excommunicated' any MPs who dared to vote against him, from the tory party, the minority tory government have lurched to the right of UK politics.... which I believe, is a matter of concern for working people everywhere in the UK.

Johnson's so called deal is worse for the UK ( IMO) much worse than the Theresa May deal which was rejected 3 times by HoC.... Johnson has 'U turned ' about practically everything in his dogmatic attempt to cling to power. IMO he is both dangerous and toxic , he doesnt much care about what is or isn't good for the UK, as he has been proven to have lied, lied and lied again, to anyone and everyone from our Queen downwards.

People such as Rory Stewart, Ken Clarke, Ed Vaisey, Amber Rudd, Phip Hammond etc are middle/ centre ground Torys , well they were until, they had the party whip withdrawn, while right-wing Tory's such as Raab, Patel & co have been installed as cabinet members, which illustrates my point that Johson's government indeed is much more right-wing in all aspects, than under the previous PM- as they were picked by Johnson (and the non party member advisor Cummings), which, by default, makes them Johnson's Henchmen and Henchwomen, and as they are from the right-wing of the Tory party that would make them right-wing.

Heres a link (to a few of many publications) that also apparently, by your definition, think 'anyone right of JC is a rightwing henchmen' as they all state Johnson's cabinet is indeed 'right-wing'

Philip Hammond: Brexiteer entryists have turned Tory party into 'extreme right-wing faction'

Brexiteer "entryists" have turned the Conservative Party in an "extreme right-wing faction", according to Philip Hammond.

www.politicshome.com

Boris Johnson's Tory Cabinet built round authors who branded Brit workers 'lazy'

Britannia Unchained, written by five members of the PM's Cabinet, slated Brits as the "worst idlers in the world”.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Conservative Party ‘fully taken over by hard right’ and turning into Brexit Party, says former Tory MP

'They are basically turning themselves into the Brexit party in order to hold off Nigel Farage' warns once-leading moderniser Nick Boles

www.independent.co.uk

hmmmm, it appears it isnt just me who sees Johnson's minority government cabinet a right wing then?


BTW it tends to help if you tag in the post you're replying to, @sadoldsod1778

 

[chuckbert]

I don't understand why it can't be done by preferential voting like in Australian elections. It allows you to have a consensus decision from a range of options. You have, say, 4 options and each voter numbers them 1 (most favoured) to 4 (least favoured) on the ballot. Then when the counting is done, you see how many voted number 1 for each option. The option with the smallest pile of votes is knocked out, and they are redistributed based on their 2nd vote. Then again the smallest pile is knocked out and the votes are redistributed amongst the final two piles, and the the biggest pile wins.

 

[Essexyellows]

So the Speaker has just decided that the house will not be debating it today............... Boris`s timetable wins..... and now they pish around about letters and "substantial changes".

Tick tock......

 

[Essexyellows]

I don't understand why it can't be done by preferential voting like in Australian elections. It allows you to have a consensus decision from a range of options. You have, say, 4 options and each voter numbers them 1 (most favoured) to 4 (least favoured) on the ballot. Then when the counting is done, you see how many voted number 1 for each option. The option with the smallest pile of votes is knocked out, and they are redistributed based on their 2nd vote. Then again the smallest pile is knocked out and the votes are redistributed amongst the final two piles, and the the biggest pile wins.

Far to sensible............. will never happen!

 

[chuckbert]

Far to sensible............. will never happen!

In fact, if they used preferential voting in parliament for complex issues they could probably have got something through the house earlier in the year when there was that stupid shitfest of votes for different versions of brexit.

 

[Essexyellows]

Stephen Barclay has just rinsed Corbyn like a bit of wet washing......................

 

[tonyw]

So with the caveat that I hate the concept of a referendum in general, because that's not how our democracy has been designed......

…...my understanding of a Confirmatory referendum is very different to what's being debated in the last few pages of this thread.

My understanding is that a Confirmatory referendum simply offers the people one piece of legislation to vote on - which is this case would be BoJo's Withdrawal Agreement. Do you agree with the UK enacting this piece of legislation? And the result is legally binding.

If the answer comes back Yes, then we leave the European Union on that basis. No ifs, no buts, no arguments.

If the answer comes back No......then the issue is thrown back to parliament to try again. No to a Confirmatory referendum does not mean revoking Article 50 (unless MPs vote to do so) and does not mean No Deal (unless MPs vote for it, or the EU refuses continued extensions).


If we really have to hold a referendum of any type (and that ship obviously sailed long ago on Brexit), then a Confirmatory referendum does seem to have the twin benefits of specificity and being legally binding. I struggle to see too many other arguments against it (other than exhaustion with Brexit in general)

 

[YellowTaxi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1186246410699788288

 

[LondonRoader]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1186246410699788288

Isn't he putting his personal feelings aside and trying to deliver how the vote was decided?

 

[SteMerritt]

Isn't he putting his personal feelings aside and trying to deliver how the vote was decided?

No, he campaigned to leave for his personal political ambitions.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Personal feelings?? He'd have to have some first. Aside from an unquenchable thirst for power and unshakeable sense of entitlement, that is...

 

[Gary Baldi]

That is the part which invalidates your entire argument. The vote was, in your words, based on lies, and on no thought of how to go forwards. Therefore another is needed. To say, after saying the first vote was won by lies and with a lack of information, we have to honour it before seeing where to go next, is frankly bonkers.

The thing is.. Can you guarantee the next won't be? And who arbiters the facts, etc etc? It's easy with the jabs, but each time I ask that question, no one answers it. It must be 10 times now.

 

[YellowTaxi]

So because the side that won cheated you can’t have another vote because they might cheat again?

Meanwhile the Bullingdon boys are trying to rush through a piece of legislation that will transform the country for the next 50 years in three days.

Only con men are in such a hurry.

 

[Gary Baldi]

As for another Referendum, the fact that no has really worked out a) what is legal b) what is fair c) who decides on what is voted on d) when we vote e) who can vote on it f) what type of referendum it is, says a lot about the whole idea. An ill conceived mess.

Considering how much Leaves are criticised for being flippant about No Deal, talking of a referendum without a single thought, for on example, on what the electoral commission will allow is worse.

 

[Gary Baldi]

So because the side that won cheated you can’t have another vote because they might cheat again?

Meanwhile the Bullingdon boys are trying to rush through a piece of legislation that will transform the country for the next 50 years in three days.

Only con men are in such a hurry.

At least you must agree that after 3 1/2 years that this certainly hasn't been rushed?

Who cheated on what in that election? Is there electoral fraud you have found? Or do you mean the Govt propaganda that landed on our doorsteps?