BMW plant - Brexit

Ian

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Nothing unexpected - from those who know a little bit about manufacturing and international supply lines and trade. In fact, Professor Minford, champion of the Brexiters desperate for economic justification, has said that manufacturing in the UK will be devastated by Brexit - but he believes we can simply move on as with the coal industry.

 

Pete Burrett

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Yes, but we should know by now that statements by manufacturing chiefs are not informed insights but examples of 'Project Fear'.

It would be great if intelligent Brexit supporters on here would acknowledge that there will at least be some problems linked to leaving that will affect people's lives and incomes.

For balance, I'd also like to hear specific examples of how Brexit will enrich our lives, rather than the rehashing of slogans and soundbites ('leave means leave' etc).
 

Paul Cannell

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Nothing unexpected - from those who know a little bit about manufacturing and international supply lines and trade. In fact, Professor Minford, champion of the Brexiters desperate for economic justification, has said that manufacturing in the UK will be devastated by Brexit - but he believes we can simply move on as with the coal industry.
Large parts of the country could not 'simply move on' after the destruction of the coal industry - a generation was ruined and people's way of life was irrevocably altered for the worse in many mining areas.

[comment on Minford's opinion, not @Ian's.
 

Paul Cannell

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For balance, I'd also like to hear specific examples of how Brexit will enrich our lives, rather than the rehashing of slogans and soundbites ('leave means leave' etc).
Well, here's 2:
people between 22 and 66 will on average have more free time and less money,
people between 18 and 22 will have lots more time and no work or money.

Brexit means enhanced leisure experiences.
 

Pete Burrett

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Well, here's 2:
people between 22 and 66 will on average have more free time and less money,
people between 18 and 22 will have lots more time and no work or money.

Brexit means enhanced leisure experiences.
Nonsense! The UK might have only sealed six trade deals in nearly three years of trying, but come the day of Brexit trade delegates will be queuing in Whitehall to sign tariff-free agreements with us, because we're GREAT. We just need to hold our nerve and shovel up the wealth.
 

Essexyellows

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"BMW may shift......."

Equally they may not!

Lets not forget the car factory isn`t the same as when my generation left school, nor is it the same as when my father worked there.
Ironically in "Stores" , something no longer needed by the "LEAN/JIT" modern way of working.

Things change, people adapt. Companies are only interested in the bottom line.

Just look at the Mini crankshaft........ Cast in France, machined in Birmingham, put in the engine in Munich, then the engine gets put in the car in Oxford.

And we complain about waste & global warming???? Pissshhhh.
 
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Pete Burrett

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It's never that many. Either Mr Fox is fibbing or Mr Werrity's been fiddling with his balls on the abacus again.
Ooh er ....

But on Thursday, International Trade Minister George Hollingbery told the Commons: "There are no deals yet that have been actually signed."

 

YellowTaxi

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"BMW may shift......."

Equally they may not!

Lets not forget the car factory isn`t the same as when my generation left school, nor is it the same as when my father worked there.
Ironically in "Stores" , something no longer needed by the "LEAN/JIT" modern way of working.

Things change, people adapt. Companies are only interested in the bottom line.

Just look at the Mini crankshaft........

And we complain about waste & global warming???? Pissshhhh.
That was how it happened when we were in the EU.

Now it it will be
"Cast in France, machined in The Netherlands, put in the engine in Munich, then the engine gets put in the car in Austria"
 

OUFCGav

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"BMW may shift......."

Equally they may not!

Lets not forget the car factory isn`t the same as when my generation left school, nor is it the same as when my father worked there.
Ironically in "Stores" , something no longer needed by the "LEAN/JIT" modern way of working.

Things change, people adapt. Companies are only interested in the bottom line.

Just look at the Mini crankshaft........ Cast in France, machined in Birmingham, put in the engine in Munich, then the engine gets put in the car in Oxford.

And we complain about waste & global warming???? Pissshhhh.
Yes they are only interested in the bottom line, but if port delays mean the line is stopped (believe it comes in at £50,000 a minute for an unplanned stoppage), then they will be affected, will look for a better option for them, and that will affect thousands of people in the UK that have jobs both directly and indirectly associated. As we are cutting off our nose to spite our face we want to be encouraging businesses and making sure they are as confident as possible as to future plans for the country, instead as that video shows, nobody in the brexit leading government actually gives the slightest **** about manufacturing or the people employed.
 

OUFCGav

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Nonsense! The UK might have only sealed six trade deals in nearly three years of trying, but come the day of Brexit trade delegates will be queuing in Whitehall to sign tariff-free agreements with us, because we're GREAT. We just need to hold our nerve and shovel up the wealth.
of course the 7 trade deals they have secured aren't actually new. they are continuation (or rollover) deals - ie the same terms as we currently have with the EU (so what is the point in leaving?). The "big" 7 deals are with Switzerland, Chile, Mauritius, Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Seychelles and the Faroe Islands (totalling less than 2.2% of our exports).
 
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Sheik djibouti

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of course the 7 trade deals they have secured aren't actually new. they are continuation (or rollover) deals - ie the same terms as we currently have with the EU (so what is the point in leaving?). The "big" 7 deals are with Switzerland, Chile, Mauritius, Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Seychelles and the Faroe Islands (totalling less than 2.2% of our exports).
Altogether now....."Walking in a Brexit Wonderland "
 

Essexyellows

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Yes they are only interested in the bottom line, but if port delays mean the line is stopped (believe it comes in at £50,000 a minute for an unplanned stoppage), then they will be affected, will look for a better option for them, and that will affect thousands of people in the UK that have jobs both directly and indirectly associated. As we are cutting off our nose to spite our face we want to be encouraging businesses and making sure they are as confident as possible as to future plans for the country, instead as that video shows, nobody in the brexit leading government actually gives the slightest **** about manufacturing or the people employed.
Have they not already rejigged the maintenance shutdown to minimise impact?
The reality (much as folk seem to be avoiding it) is that the majority that voted voted to leave.
HMG have been kicking the can around and dithering for more than 2 years in the vain hope that "something" might knock it off the rails.
An election? Nope had one of those. No confidence motion? Nope had one of those.

Its like the Miners strike, nobody gave a slightest **** about collieries and now those areas have moved on to other things......... some changes are small, some are big.

Crack on and get it done...it is the uncertainty that is causing the damage nothing else.

PS: Half my week is taken up "planning continuity" post Brexit and considering all options. If I was only looking at one outcome such as WTO default it would be much easier!
 

Pete Burrett

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Its like the Miners strike, nobody gave a slightest **** about collieries and now those areas have moved on to other things......... some changes are small, some are big.
Contentious! I'd like to see evidence of these areas having 'moved on' to any significant degree. The immediate effect of the mine closures (many unnecessary, but that's another story) was mass unemployment in towns that were often reliant on that one industry. Those who had the required skills and ability to be mobile might have moved away from their families and community, but most didn't and either relied on benefits or took work in Tesco, insurance call centres and other relatively low paid sectors. Hardly a substitute for the collieries.

Places like Hatfield Main, Stainforth and Thorne in South Yorkshire have still not recovered, 35 years on.

The effects of Brexit will obviously be different, as defined geographical areas may not be affected en masse, but who knows what those effects will be? No-one on this forum, that's for sure.
 

OUFCGav

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Have they not already rejigged the maintenance shutdown to minimise impact?
The reality (much as folk seem to be avoiding it) is that the majority that voted voted to leave.
HMG have been kicking the can around and dithering for more than 2 years in the vain hope that "something" might knock it off the rails.
An election? Nope had one of those. No confidence motion? Nope had one of those.

Its like the Miners strike, nobody gave a slightest **** about collieries and now those areas have moved on to other things......... some changes are small, some are big.

Crack on and get it done...it is the uncertainty that is causing the damage nothing else.

PS: Half my week is taken up "planning continuity" post Brexit and considering all options. If I was only looking at one outcome such as WTO default it would be much easier!
only for the first couple of weeks. if we crash out with no deal, the disruption will last longer than that. If we crash out with no deal we will have large WTO tariffs and trade obligations that we are in no way ready to deal with - there are thousands that would need to be employed at the ports to cope (the magical 'technological developments' that the brexiteers promise is a fantasy of the future).

Yes the majority that voted did so to leave, but how many were influenced by the lies peddled by the illegally funded, foreign backed campaign, led up to by the lies peddled by a chunk of the media in the years before (remember things like the straight banana story - made up (and he admits so) by Boris Johnson when he was a journalist for the Telegraph). But even allowing for that, most of them would have hoped that someone somewhere had an actual plan and that the things that were promised could be delivered. But the one thing you notice about all the leading brexiteers, they have all run away from any actual responsibility. The "easiest trade deals in history" haven't happened (unless you are desperate for goods from the Faroe Islands. The people left have discovered exactly what was predicted, that shooting yourself in the foot is harder than you would imagine.

Many of the areas where mining was closed down are still devastated and abandoned.

WTO is in reality neither easy, nor good for business. The only countries actively relying solely on WTO trading rules are:
  • Holy See
  • Mauritania
  • Monaco
  • Montenegro
  • Palau
  • Timor-Leste
  • Sao Tome and Principe
  • Serbia
  • Somalia
  • South Sudan
  • Sudan
  • Western Sahara
Any trade deals with our major partners are likely to take years, and we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and desperation. The US is already drawing up their list of demands, and its not good for us (very good for them). India has already demanded an expanded and easier access visa system in return - so the control of our borders keeping out the immigrants argument will actually cause more immigration, just from different countries.
 

Essexyellows

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"Solely on WTO"..... we wont be.
You seem to neglect the fact that we are a consumer nation ...that drives supply.
The "how it gets here & what it costs" is a moot point. If your Starbucks skinny latte goes up by 10p you adjust accordingly.
The US ............................ we have a [B]surplus[/B] of circa £34 billion with the US accounting for 18% of exports.
The EU ...........................we have a [B]deficit[/B] of circa £80 billion accounting for 43% of exports.
More here: https://fullfact.org/economy/trade-deficit-surplus-USA-EU/

PS: Don
t mention chicken..... the purpose of chlorination is to reduce post slaughter pathogens that currently kill folk over here.
More here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56eddde762cd9413e151ac92/t/59747741bf629a8e3d01a494/1500804930480/Chlorinated+Chicken.pdf
 

ZeroTheHero

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The purpose of chlorinated chicken is to allow the US producers to have virtually no health standards in their production, relying on chemicals to wash everything off at the last moment. Which (oddly enough) allows them to produce stuff cheaper than those with decent health and animal welfare standards.

That 'paper' you link to is produced by the Adam Smith Institute, who as well as their extreme free-market policies also want to slash (further) tax for the rich and dismantle the NHS in favour of US 'health' companies - forgive me if I take it with a very large pinch of very strong snuff.
 
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