National News National Lockdown coming

There shouldn’t be a difference of more than one tier between neighbouring constituencies. It’s nonsensical that you can have a two tier jump between villages that are two or three miles apart where there happens to be a county boundary in between. This suggests that the decision isn’t being based on any sort of logic or - dare I say it - common sense. And it certainly isn’t being made with any fundamental understanding of how viruses transmit.

Any area bordering Tier 4 shouldn’t be allowed to be less than Tier 3 by default, so that the system is always erring on the side of caution and the higher tiered, more infectious areas dictate the restrictions on the areas closest to them.
 
So I am the unclean of the unclean. Tier 4 for me. My office is 2 miles away in tier 2. And I can see tier 1 from my bedroom window. So near to a great Xmas yet so far.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
There shouldn’t be a difference of more than one tier between neighbouring constituencies. It’s nonsensical that you can have a two tier jump between villages that are two or three miles apart where there happens to be a county boundary in between. This suggests that the decision isn’t being based on any sort of logic or - dare I say it - common sense. And it certainly isn’t being made with any fundamental understanding of how viruses transmit.

Any area bordering Tier 4 shouldn’t be allowed to be less than Tier 3 by default, so that the system is always erring on the side of caution and the higher tiered, more infectious areas dictate the restrictions on the areas closest to them.
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The border has to fall somewhere.
I live in tier 2 less than a mile from a tier 4 area so what do they do, make it a tier 3 for a mile as a buffer then down to tier 2? Of course not.
Gov.uk has plenty of information about how the tiers are decided and includes hospital capacity and positive case trends in age groups , it’s all there to read and has been for months, but why let facts get in the way of a misinformed forum discussion?
 
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RyanioBirdio said:
There shouldn’t be a difference of more than one tier between neighbouring constituencies. It’s nonsensical that you can have a two tier jump between villages that are two or three miles apart where there happens to be a county boundary in between. This suggests that the decision isn’t being based on any sort of logic or - dare I say it - common sense. And it certainly isn’t being made with any fundamental understanding of how viruses transmit.

Any area bordering Tier 4 shouldn’t be allowed to be less than Tier 3 by default, so that the system is always erring on the side of caution and the higher tiered, more infectious areas dictate the restrictions on the areas closest to them.
Click to expand...
Logic like that will get you a job in government, there again perhaps it won't!!!
 
RyanioBirdio said:
There shouldn’t be a difference of more than one tier between neighbouring constituencies. It’s nonsensical that you can have a two tier jump between villages that are two or three miles apart where there happens to be a county boundary in between. This suggests that the decision isn’t being based on any sort of logic or - dare I say it - common sense. And it certainly isn’t being made with any fundamental understanding of how viruses transmit.

Any area bordering Tier 4 shouldn’t be allowed to be less than Tier 3 by default, so that the system is always erring on the side of caution and the higher tiered, more infectious areas dictate the restrictions on the areas closest to them.
Click to expand...
spot on
 
Eaststanding said:
I live in tier 2 less than a mile from a tier 4 area so what do they do, make it a tier 3 for a mile as a buffer then down to tier 2? Of course not.
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No, your entire constituency should be in Tier 3. Your whole county should be the ‘buffer’. The idea of bringing in a one mile strip, or splitting constituencies into more than one tier, is moronic.

This isn’t difficult.
 
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RyanioBirdio said:
No, your entire constituency should be in Tier 3. Your whole county should be the ‘buffer’. The idea of bringing in a one mile strip and splitting constituencies into more than one tier is moronic.

This isn’t difficult.
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Steady on fella, I’m happy to have a discussion about something that neither you or I are experts on without the need for insults.
I gave that as an example, based on no evidence at all as you have, but as I said, the tier selection is based on a number of factors that are likely to be more inconsistent the larger the county is and the more diverse in terms of population density and age profile it is; Look at Reading and Slough; moved into tier 3 sometime before the rest of Berkshire reached the higher tier.
 
Eaststanding said:
Steady on fella, I’m happy to have a discussion about something that neither you or I are experts on without the need for insults.
Click to expand...
With due respect, you took a perfectly logical comment and started spitballing about one mile walls and barriers, which is nowhere near the principle of my original point and seems designed merely to muddy it. The debate isn’t about “there has to be a line somewhere”, it’s about the fact that they’ve stacked two separate borders right on top of each other. It can never make sense that way.

There is also a world of difference between an entire major town / city being different to the rest of the surrounding county, and creating some sort of invisible barrier that isn’t any wider than a few football pitches and which over complicates things. It’s incredibly easy to understand that an entire town like Reading or Slough is different, rather than telling people to remember that Farmer John’s field is some sort of transition zone. The aforementioned major towns were also moved to be just one tier different to the areas around them, which makes some basic semblance of sense. There is no sense in skipping straight from 4 to 2, or vice versa, in the way that today’s new system allows. The jump is too big and will only lead to people dismissing the restrictions, because they’d be right to say that there is no sense to it.

The key to keeping an entire country on side is not just to be honest but to make logical decisions that are easy to explain and therefore easy to follow. That’s where this mob has fallen short since day one. They’ve done nothing but P**s in the wind and it’s not funny anymore.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
There shouldn’t be a difference of more than one tier between neighbouring constituencies. It’s nonsensical that you can have a two tier jump between villages that are two or three miles apart where there happens to be a county boundary in between. This suggests that the decision isn’t being based on any sort of logic or - dare I say it - common sense. And it certainly isn’t being made with any fundamental understanding of how viruses transmit.

Any area bordering Tier 4 shouldn’t be allowed to be less than Tier 3 by default, so that the system is always erring on the side of caution and the higher tiered, more infectious areas dictate the restrictions on the areas closest to them.
Click to expand...

If I walk across the road from my house and over a very small bridge I am going from tier 2 to tier 4, down the road a bit further and you have a roundabout that separates Hampshire, Surrey and Berkshire, take 3 exits and you are in tier 4 but take the 4th and you are in 2. It will be ignored around here because those boundaries are administrative lines not lines that divide people’s family, friends, work etc.

Mind you considering bottling the water of the River Blackwater that divides North East Hampshire from Berkshire and Surrey, keeps coronavirus away obviously.
 
Thanks Boris, as Xmas is cancelled I better start on my box of Malbec. Not allowed to share it with anyone so might as well drink 🍷 it myself. Small consulation
 
RyanioBirdio said:
With due respect, you took a perfectly logical comment and started spitballing about one mile walls and barriers, which is nowhere near the principle of my original point and seems designed merely to muddy it. The debate isn’t about “there has to be a line somewhere”, it’s about the fact that they’ve stacked two separate borders right on top of each other. It can never make sense that way.

There is also a world of difference between an entire major town / city being different to the rest of the surrounding county, and creating some sort of invisible barrier that isn’t any wider than a few football pitches and which over complicates things. It’s incredibly easy to understand that an entire town like Reading or Slough is different, rather than telling people to remember that Farmer John’s field is some sort of transition zone. The aforementioned major towns were also moved to be just one tier different to the areas around them, which makes some basic semblance of sense. There is no sense in skipping straight from 4 to 2, or vice versa, in the way that today’s new system allows. The jump is too big and will only lead to people dismissing the restrictions, because they’d be right to say that there is no sense to it.

The key to keeping an entire country on side is not just to be honest but to make logical decisions that are easy to explain and therefore easy to follow. That’s where this mob has fallen short since day one. They’ve done nothing but P**s in the wind and it’s not funny anymore.
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No attempt to muddy anything; there will be different interpretations of your suggestion, I put one up that is clearly illogical to highlight the fact that in my opinion there are many more illogical interpretations to your idea than logical; we have different views on what is logical. I don’t have the answers and won’t have unless someone wants to pay me lots of money to come up with some.

But, the line does have to fall somewhere and no one yet has any better ideas than the Govt.

So where do you draw a line when the criteria for tier selection is:
‘Case detection rates in all age groups, case detection rates in the over 60s, the rate at which cases are rising or falling, positivity rate (the number of positive cases detected as a percentage of tests taken), pressure on the NHS alongside consideration of ‘human geographies’ like travel patterns’ as well as interplay between each metric.
On top of this remember that tier 4 was introduced today as the result of virus variant spreading like wildfire through the south east, and no one, despite the ‘experts’ saying the govt knew about this in September, could predict its impact or rate of impact.
We could argue this one until Farmer John’s cows come home and get nowhere.

No doubt you’ll say the govt should have seen the variant coming, they should have come up with an idea about differentiating between tier boundaries before now and they’ll fall short whatever they do. You think they’ve fallen short since day one, I say they can‘t win whatever they do but in my view as someone who was shielding and has had nothing but exceptional local and central Govt support from day one they have my understanding and support.
 
The 'whole counties' tiering is a very blunt instrument. But TBH, although my particular rural area is much more likely to have the same rates as Tier 2 Northants (a few miles away) rather than those of Luton/Dunstable (20 miles away), I am not that upset about now being in Tier 4. Maybe it will persuade those who can't exercise self control to behave a bit better. If they do so, we stand a better chance of getting back to a more normal life much quicker.
 
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Pompeyyellows said:
Thanks Boris, as Xmas is cancelled I better start on my box of Malbec. Not allowed to share it with anyone so might as well drink 🍷 it myself. Small consulation
Click to expand...
Box? The word is case dear boy.

I don’t think there are any obvious answers to the question of tiers, it’s all been done in a rush and there will always be inconsistencies. Would have been a lot better if they hadn’t tried to make such a thing of Christmas
 
My Daughter a season ticket holder like myself lives near Farnham Surrey just gone in to tier 4, yet Aldershot 7/8 mins away is in tier 2. the Hampshire / Surrey border split by the M3 , just doesnt make sense, understand the reasons behind it with the virus spreading in that part of the country, but i do think they have taken things too far without thinking much about the expense people have already paid out getting stuff in for the families for Christmas.
 
what a mess, should never had announced a 5 day break, that was madness and asking for trouble.
the whole country will be in Lockdown in Jan anyway so should have done so directly not try to be santa then take the presents away.
Back in March everything was so clear, all that's followed is ambiguity rather than hard and fast "Laws"
Yet again all todays announcement will do is allow the i'm alright jacks to carry on their merry way.
 
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