National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175

Sheik djibouti

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I have the utmost respect for your opinions Mr Essex, because they're usually well researched even if I don't agree with them, but just referencing a treaty that came into force 10 years ago while suggesting we should fear what might happen in 2020 - a date that doesn't appear in the treaty - is not convincing! Where's the actual proof that the EU seeks centralised control, by 2020 or any other date?
And we seem to be conveniently ignoring the role that member states and their elected representatives to the EU play.
It's almost like people are working under the assumptio that the EU is some unelected bureaucratic dictatorship which forces member states to do its bidding in all circumstances.....
 

Essexyellows

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I have the utmost respect for your opinions Mr Essex, because they're usually well researched even if I don't agree with them, but just referencing a treaty that came into force 10 years ago while suggesting we should fear what might happen in 2020 - a date that doesn't appear in the treaty - is not convincing! Where's the actual proof that the EU seeks centralised control, by 2020 or any other date?
My concern is based on the direction of travel, the "one size fits all" narrative. in the real world it doesn`t.

@Sheik djibouti Most British MEPs do not sit in the groups that dominate the European parliament agenda.
And even when they do sit in these groups – such as the Conservatives in EPP before 2009, and Labour in S&D – British MEPs are often opposed to the majority positions of these groups.
As a result, British MEPs often find themselves on the losing side in key votes. So we have very little real influence as the Union grows ever larger.
 

Marked Ox

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My concern is based on the direction of travel, the "one size fits all" narrative. in the real world it doesn`t.

@Sheik djibouti Most British MEPs do not sit in the groups that dominate the European parliament agenda.
And even when they do sit in these groups – such as the Conservatives in EPP before 2009, and Labour in S&D – British MEPs are often opposed to the majority positions of these groups.
As a result, British MEPs often find themselves on the losing side in key votes. So we have very little real influence as the Union grows ever larger.
Our Govt has a veto and we chose not to be in the Schengen Agreement and the Euro.
 

Essexyellows

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Our Govt has a veto and we chose not to be in the Schengen Agreement and the Euro.
I`ll just leave this here................ an ever weakened "influence" that was only rebalanced in 2017, and other countries/the Council can use the "older" system if they wish.
1190

I would also suggest you good people research the "Passerelle clause", you will then find there are a further six specific clauses written into EU law where the Council have no or very little say.
In four of them it is the Council of Ministers rather than the European Council which make the decision to use the clause.
The European Parliament has no role in four of the clauses and is limited to being consulted in the other two.
A national parliamentary veto is only retained in one of them.

Democracy ??? Its not on the table of the "Superstate"....
 

Paul Cannell

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I`ll just leave this here................ an ever weakened "influence" that was only rebalanced in 2017, and other countries/the Council can use the "older" system if they wish.
View attachment 1190

I would also suggest you good people research the "Passerelle clause", you will then find there are a further six specific clauses written into EU law where the Council have no or very little say.
In four of them it is the Council of Ministers rather than the European Council which make the decision to use the clause.
The European Parliament has no role in four of the clauses and is limited to being consulted in the other two.
A national parliamentary veto is only retained in one of them.

Democracy ??? Its not on the table of the "Superstate"....
Dear me. Sling enough undifferentiated mud and some will stick.

Passarelle clauses definition:
"Passerelle clauses allow derogation from the legislative procedures initially provided for by the treaties. Specifically, and under certain conditions, they make it possible:

  • to switch from the special legislative procedure to the ordinary legislative procedure in order to adopt an act in a given policy area;
  • to switch from voting by unanimity to qualified majority voting in a given policy area.
Activating a passerelle clause still depends on a decision being adopted unanimously by the Council or by the European Council. Thus, in every case, all EU countries must be in agreement before such a clause may be activated."

Download containing definition of the"6 clauses": "The specific passerelle clauses have certain features of procedure regarding the general passerelle clause. For example, national parliaments have generally a right to object, this right is granted to them by the general clause. In other cases, the application of certain specific clause may be authorized by a decision of the Council, and not the European Council as is the case for the general clause. Therefore, the rules for applying the specific terms vary from case to case and are described in the articles of treaties providing for their application. There are six specific passerelle clauses to be applied to: 1) Multiannual financial framework (art. 312 TFEU); 2) Common Security and Defence Policy (art. 31 TEU); 3) Judicial cooperation concerning family law (art. 81 TEU). This specific clause is the only clause regarding which national Parliaments retain the right to object; 4) Enhanced cooperation in the areas covered by unanimity or a special legislative procedure (art. 333 TFEU); 5) Social Affairs (art. 153 TEU); 6) Environmental (art. 192 of the TEU). "

Each country has the right to object, they say.
 

Essexyellows

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From your handy link @PC .................

"The objective is to contribute towards EU integration by rendering decision-making more efficient. In the ordinary legislative procedure, EU countries do not have a right of veto and there are more ways of reaching an agreement."

Try looking further ahead than the "now"..... they want a unified political & financial structure applied over all the member nations.
That will make the poorer countries richer from the wealth generated by others.
Very altruistic but someone, somewhere will be working harder, paying more and not being any better off......
 

Paul Cannell

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We'll get worse off faster under direct trade agreements with the USA. At least, most of us - the 99%.


From your handy link @PC .................

"The objective is to contribute towards EU integration by rendering decision-making more efficient. In the ordinary legislative procedure, EU countries do not have a right of veto and there are more ways of reaching an agreement."
By the way, that quote states that the 'pasarelle' provides greater abilities above the ordinary legislative procedure for the 6 key cases and potentially others for countries to protect their interests. It work the opposite way to what you say.
 

Essexyellows

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Anyway, on the brightside there are 12 Parliamentary working days left.............................................. 😁🍾;)🍸

Chin chin, nice weekend all!
 

YellowTaxi

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9 Jan 2018
Messages
435
My concern is based on the direction of travel, the "one size fits all" narrative. in the real world it doesn`t.

@Sheik djibouti Most British MEPs do not sit in the groups that dominate the European parliament agenda.
And even when they do sit in these groups – such as the Conservatives in EPP before 2009, and Labour in S&D – British MEPs are often opposed to the majority positions of these groups.
As a result, British MEPs often find themselves on the losing side in key votes. So we have very little real influence as the Union grows ever larger.
Yes the conservatives left the mainstream Christian Democrats and went to sit in the same group as the German neo-Nazis and the far right Polish "Law and Justice" party . Nice friends...
 

cassox

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9 May 2018
Messages
513
We didnt vote for a deal..........Decent deals can only be made AFTER we leave........the EU wont give us jack sh#t.....why should they at the moment....we should have left within the month of the leave result.......#ucking idiots and traitors
running our country
 

Oufcrealist

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13 Dec 2017
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We didnt vote for a deal..........Decent deals can only be made AFTER we leave........the EU wont give us jack sh#t.....why should they at the moment....we should have left within the month of the leave result.......#ucking idiots and traitors
running our country
Well, the Tories did elect a remainer as their leader to negotiate Brexit for them. She doesn't want to leave at all and won't without a deal.
 

YellowTaxi

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9 Jan 2018
Messages
435
We didnt vote for a deal..........Decent deals can only be made AFTER we leave........the EU wont give us jack sh#t.....why should they at the moment....we should have left within the month of the leave result.......#ucking idiots and traitors
running our country
How would that have worked, Cassox? Every one go to Dover and start pushing us westwards?.
 

Gary Baldi

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6 Dec 2017
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Juncker did say last night it was "legally binding", whatever it is.

It's the only lipstick the pig will get from what I can see, so Parliament will like it or lump it I suppose.
 

Sheik djibouti

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8 Dec 2017
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547
JRM has said he's waiting to see what the DUP decide....

If ever this was an example of the whole of parliament being held to ransom by a small group of extremists...who have already trousered £1billion for their "support".....

What a shameful state UK politics is in!
 

Essexyellows

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Its an interesting dichotomy really........ untangling 40 odd years of regulation, legislation and the like. Just like a complex divorce.
Leave on the 29th then sort the mess out.
 

YellowTaxi

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Its an interesting dichotomy really........ untangling 40 odd years of regulation, legislation and the like. Just like a complex divorce.
Leave on the 29th then sort the mess out.
Brilliant Idea.

I did exactly the same when I moved house. No point sorting through everything and packing it into boxes.I just left. We sorted the stuff out later.
 

Essexyellows

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Brilliant Idea.

I did exactly the same when I moved house. No point sorting through everything and packing it into boxes.I just left. We sorted the stuff out later.
I left with a suitcase, left the ex in the house & sorted it out later.................... bought another place and moved on. It can be done.
So ....... we leave on the 29th (me with the case) we negotiate the rest (I`m not against us paying for what we signed up to.... leaving the ex in the house) .... we move on. See how simple it can be.
 

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