National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175

LowerSouth

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
2,415
It’s a real travesty that many voters chose the referendum to register a protest.
The EU seems to have been blamed for all the ills in our economy and society.
The truth is a little closer to home.
Since the 70’s, successive governments whether Tory or Labour, have governed on a maximum 5 year cylce, with largely knee jerk or dogmatic policies.
In simple terms,UK Ltd has never done long term infrastructure planning, i.e. health and joined up welfare,education,transport etc.
This will not change if we stay or leave the EU, unless you and me press our politicians for change.
 
Last edited:

Sarge

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
27,570
Yeah, anyone over 60 shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

50- 60 year olds, each vote counts as half a vote.
30-50 year olds, each vote counts as one vote.
20-30 year olds, each vote counts as double.
Under 20s, each vote counts as three vote.
any former French citizens who have relocated and become British citizens I would imagine have votes that count double .... after all, everyone knows that away gauls count double in (or voting out of) Europe ;)
 

ZeroTheHero

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
4,141
This will not change if we stay in or leave the EU, unless you and me press our politicians for change.
Except that the politicians in the winning party will be unrestrained in what they can do. It is THEM who will have 'taken back control' not US. They will be unrestrained by any European legislation and will be able to do exactl as they please. Mmm - chlorine washed chicken and hormone impregnated beef. And the American drug companies taking over the NHS.
 

LowerSouth

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
2,415
Except that the politicians in the winning party will be unrestrained in what they can do. It is THEM who will have 'taken back control' not US. They will be unrestrained by any European legislation and will be able to do exactl as they please. Mmm - chlorine washed chicken and hormone impregnated beef. And the American drug companies taking over the NHS.
The EU has no restraining influence or power regarding how we provide basic life structure and infrastructure in the UK- that is solely down to the UK government.
EU laws do not stop us putting in place long term aims and goals- successive UK government is responsible for that NOT happening.
 

Sheik djibouti

Active member
Joined
8 Dec 2017
Messages
938
The EU has no restraining influence or power regarding how we provide basic life structure and infrastructure in the UK- that is solely down to the UK government.
EU laws do not stop us putting in place long term aims and goals- successive UK government is responsible for that NOT happening.
Can't like this post enough. Successive UK government's have all too often conveniently used the EU as the reason for their own shortcomings....what will they do when we're out?

I expect they will still try to blame them for the terrible predicament we're about to find ourselves in.

Still haven't seen a convincing argument as to why remain should not be on a people's vote ballot by the way.

If it were criminal proceedings, an unsafe conviction would be overturned and a re-trial ordered. Why are we not applying the same rigour to this "one in a lifetime" decision here?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ian

ZeroTheHero

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
4,141
Sorry, I think you've slightly misunderstood my post. For example the American food imports/standards. The UK has signed up to the EU rules that forbid the importation of this kind of crap (very wisely). I don't know how practical it would have been for the UK to try to get an exception so all the chlorine flavoured chicken aficionados here could have been supplied - I suspect hugely difficult, expensive and not practical at all. Once we are out of the EU, we might well have our own version of that legislation - but far easier for a UK government to repeal/revoke/alter that if they took mind to.

I do of course agree that the EU has been used as some sort of bogeyman to cover up the failings of successive governments - quite deliberately in the case of the extreme right of the Tory party.
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
6,817
Blimey. No - obviously they didn't. What they DID know was what is was like to live in a country that was part of a larger whole. A country where their rights were protected, where the environment was at least considered in legislation, where the country was part of a large trading block, where scientific and medical research was done in partnership with our European friends, where the size of the organisation meant we weren't bullied into accepting lower food/safety standards by the Americans/Chinese/Russians/etc, where a large number of people were quite prepared to take people as they were rather than worrying whether they had a 'funny' accent and looked a bit different to them etc etc etc. Obviously the creep towards greater federalisation was a worry, but talk about chucking the baby out with the bath water!

Those who voted on either side did so for a variety of reasons (some more laudable than others) but to claim that those who wanted the status quo didn't know what sort of society they were living in, but those who wanted to leave had a realistic view of what leaving would look like is silly, beause in the latter case - WE STILL DO NOT KNOW!
This is my point. The pressure is on Leavers to get educated, but as I found out, Leavers were naive about many things., As for the rest, not going to rehash old arguments again!
That’s such a specious argument! It’s like saying that no one can ever make an informed judgement at an election because they can’t accurately predict the future. Reductio ad absurdum.
The thing is, I don’t understand the desire to paint things this way. It was, and is, obvious that a large part of the leave vote was a protest vote, a revolutionary vote, and maybe not even limited to the question of brexit. It’s fine for people to vote on the basis of “f**k this lot, I’ve had enough”, but that doesnt translate into knowing what you’re voting for. Instead it translates into being convinced to take a risk on the unknown.
That’s where adults need to be adults - take responsibility for having chosen significant unpredictable risk, rather than asserting that the other side didn’t know what they were voting for.

Every time you use this same rhetorical device you weaken your argument! 😀
It's not at all, but it creates a perception that only Leavers didn't know what they were voting on! I have no doubt there were people who knew what they voted for and those who didn't. As I've found in person and online, there is a certain persistence attached when Remainers are asked did you know what you were voting on, especially when asked questions like are you ok about the federalisation of Europe? It's charming in a way.

It's almost like the question is only valid one way ;)
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
6,817
Sorry, I think you've slightly misunderstood my post. For example the American food imports/standards. The UK has signed up to the EU rules that forbid the importation of this kind of crap (very wisely). I don't know how practical it would have been for the UK to try to get an exception so all the chlorine flavoured chicken aficionados here could have been supplied - I suspect hugely difficult, expensive and not practical at all. Once we are out of the EU, we might well have our own version of that legislation - but far easier for a UK government to repeal/revoke/alter that if they took mind to.

I do of course agree that the EU has been used as some sort of bogeyman to cover up the failings of successive governments - quite deliberately in the case of the extreme right of the Tory party.
As was pointed out on Andrew Marr yesterday, the US always start with the chicken and steak gambit in negotiations. We also do not need to buy it as consumers if it is allowed in - we aren't going to be force fed it as soon as it is imported! But it's a convenient boogeyman about US trade to get people all angry about it.

Extreme right Govt. LOL.... Typical Tory scaremongering :D
 

SteMerritt

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
8 Dec 2017
Messages
3,932
any former French citizens who have relocated and become British citizens I would imagine have votes that count double .... after all, everyone knows that away gauls count double in (or voting out of) Europe ;)
I really don't know if I should be getting my coat and walking out after that joke, or standing up an saluting you for it 😂

So ill just say "well played" 😂
 

chuckbert

Well-known member
Joined
8 Dec 2017
Messages
1,712
when Remainers are asked did you knowwhat you were voting on, especially when asked questions like are you ok about the federalisation of Europe? It's charming in a way.
Or maybe they would be comfortable that with the status quo in Europe, the UK would be in a position of self-determination, just as we were with not becoming part of Schengen and not joining the Euro. That is all about knowing what you’re dealing with. Leave was/is about the unknown - again I’m not criticising those who chose that vote, but you’re the only one who seems to be arguing the point (although as usual you are trying to do so by flipping it and (falsely) suggesting that those who live in a particular system don’t know anything about living in that system).
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
6,817
Or maybe they would be comfortable that with the status quo in Europe, the UK would be in a position of self-determination, just as we were with not becoming part of Schengen and not joining the Euro. That is all about knowing what you’re dealing with. Leave was/is about the unknown - again I’m not criticising those who chose that vote, but you’re the only one who seems to be arguing the point (although as usual you are trying to do so by flipping it and (falsely) suggesting that those who live in a particular system don’t know anything about living in that system).
Maybe they are, but the nub of it really is that most of us are very uninformed when we vote, but it's been the last 2 referenda that people on the winning side have been accused of not knowing what they were voting for and we want another vote shortly after.

And yes, most people have absolutely no clue about what the EU is about, other than we're in it and it kind of doesn't affect my day to day life- which is fine if everyone is treated the same. Many moons ago I had to list out to a big Europhile on here (not a poster any longer) about the tenets of the single market as they had no idea about it and would not accept I was right, even when pointed to the EUs website! What a life!
 

Sheik djibouti

Active member
Joined
8 Dec 2017
Messages
938
And yet another example of the damaging, probably irreversible erosion Brexit will do to the things we're supposed to be world leaders in.

BBC News - Brexit Britain will be 'lost in space'
 

YellowTaxi

Active member
Joined
9 Jan 2018
Messages
880
NEW: the boss of BMW Mini steps up his warnings surrounding a no-deal Brexit telling @AdamParsons1 and I in Geneva that the company would “have to consider” moving production from its plant in Oxford as it couldn’t absorb costs of tariffs.Sorry to anyone who works at BMW
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
14,289
NEW: the boss of BMW Mini steps up his warnings surrounding a no-deal Brexit telling @AdamParsons1 and I in Geneva that the company would “have to consider” moving production from its plant in Oxford as it couldn’t absorb costs of tariffs.Sorry to anyone who works at BMW
Don't be silly, it can't be down to Brexit as we keep being told, it is all PROJECT FEAR by REMOANERS.
 

Essexyellows

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2017
Messages
4,024
Wow! Look forward to the rebuttal of that! 'Fake News' par extraordinaire, allegedly.
Feel free to read it yourself. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/5/the-treaty-of-lisbon
However take a forward looking view, it is about more centralised control over many aspects of "Union Life" over a longer period of time.
They are just playing the business model game on a grander scale....
1189

Replace the left hand 50% with Remainers and the right hand 50% with Leavers and thats what you have on a grander scale.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Ian

Similar threads


Top Bottom