National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 51 29.1%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 77 44.0%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 37 21.1%

  • Total voters
    175

Pete Burrett

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Isn’t the sensible widely-applied approach to not use 50:50 as the decision point? To enact a significant change you set the threshold for change at, say 60%. It is a bit conservative but puts the onus on changers to get a solid majority. Unfortunately that boat sailed with the first referendum.
I agree. But if 60% were used as the threshold, imagine the distress of one side if the vote was 59:41!
 

Yellow River

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Leave won the referendum, but a way will be found to remain, or BRINO.

It’s all about how we get to that point now, and has been since May called an election and reduced her majority.
 

m

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Agree with most of that, but the bit I've highlighted is not really relevant, in my opinion. Another vote should be about not whether we leave or not, but HOW we leave, which shouldn't be as divisive as the original in/out vote.
Exactly this!
 

tonyw

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But then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll, I'll, I'll set the building on fire.....

Twenty years old this month. Still a great film.


Oh sorry - getting sidetracked from the main point! Although there's nothing much going on right now, and I can see a long extension to Article 50 coming, meaning I doubt much is going to be happening any time soon.
 

tonyw

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Go on then, give us a clue
Hmmm....well if you didn't get the movie from the article and the long iconic quote in my previous post, then it's possible that you may not be familiar with this cult classic!

But I guess I would follow with:

No! Not again! Why does it say paper jam when there is no paper jam! I swear to God one of these days I’m just going to kick this piece of s**t out of the window
 

Gary Baldi

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Doing that “even-handed” both-sides thing again GB?
No, both sides were not equally informed. Those voting remain knew what it was like to continue to be in the EU. Those who voted leave had no idea of how it would work and what the consequences would be (FFS even the govt still doesn’t know what it will mean years later). That isn’t a criticism of leavers - I’m quite fond of idealism, bravery and optimism as motivations.
But, it does quite clearly mean that there was not a level playing field of “knowing what they were voting for”.
It's true! Does every Remainer you talk to understand the basic principles of the single market? Or their desire to further federalise and the impact it would have on the UKs status if we had stayed?

I rest my case m'lud
Agree with most of that, but the bit I've highlighted is not really relevant, in my opinion. Another vote should be about not whether we leave or not, but HOW we leave, which shouldn't be as divisive as the original in/out vote. What questions to ask would, as you say, be the tricky bit, (Come to think of it, it could be just as divisive .... what a mess!)
The reason I say the 52-48, is because how some Remainers have constantly called it too close to call and not a clear result, angling for a new vote. My perspective is it's a majority, we move on, whoever won. But the last 2 1/2 years would make people like me on principle alone, say it's not legitimate and we need another vote.

It is an absolute mess from left to right, and my desire now is just to get on with it and move to sorting the mess the country has been since Brexit reared it's head. The worst thing we can do for the youth of the country is to carry on arguing about a vote in 2016 and ignore everything else.

Time for adults to be adults...
 

ZeroTheHero

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It's true! Does every Remainer you talk to understand the basic principles of the single market? Or their desire to further federalise and the impact it would have on the UKs status if we had stayed?
Blimey. No - obviously they didn't. What they DID know was what is was like to live in a country that was part of a larger whole. A country where their rights were protected, where the environment was at least considered in legislation, where the country was part of a large trading block, where scientific and medical research was done in partnership with our European friends, where the size of the organisation meant we weren't bullied into accepting lower food/safety standards by the Americans/Chinese/Russians/etc, where a large number of people were quite prepared to take people as they were rather than worrying whether they had a 'funny' accent and looked a bit different to them etc etc etc. Obviously the creep towards greater federalisation was a worry, but talk about chucking the baby out with the bath water!

Those who voted on either side did so for a variety of reasons (some more laudable than others) but to claim that those who wanted the status quo didn't know what sort of society they were living in, but those who wanted to leave had a realistic view of what leaving would look like is silly, beause in the latter case - WE STILL DO NOT KNOW!
 

chuckbert

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It's true! Does every Remainer you talk to understand the basic principles of the single market? Or their desire to further federalise and the impact it would have on the UKs ...
That’s such a specious argument! It’s like saying that no one can ever make an informed judgement at an election because they can’t accurately predict the future. Reductio ad absurdum.
The thing is, I don’t understand the desire to paint things this way. It was, and is, obvious that a large part of the leave vote was a protest vote, a revolutionary vote, and maybe not even limited to the question of brexit. It’s fine for people to vote on the basis of “f**k this lot, I’ve had enough”, but that doesnt translate into knowing what you’re voting for. Instead it translates into being convinced to take a risk on the unknown.
That’s where adults need to be adults - take responsibility for having chosen significant unpredictable risk, rather than asserting that the other side didn’t know what they were voting for.

Every time you use this same rhetorical device you weaken your argument! 😀
 

Pete Burrett

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At its simplest, while I fully accept that the way the EU is run may not be perfect, my country being a member works for me for numerous reasons, hence my vote. My country not being a member presents significant risks that these reasons may be prejudiced.

The argument I'm looking forward to reading from a leaver is that there are more risks in staying than going.

What I'm actually reading from leavers - baseless nationalistic junk apart - is that leaving will somehow present more opportunities than threats, but without specific reasoning or logical examples.

If some people want to leave just for a change, that's sort of understandable but not persuasive.
 

Pete Burrett

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Does anyone know what the 2nd referendum campaigners preferred question is on the ballot paper?
No. Important to reiterate that a second referendum should be about the manner of leaving though, not a rehash of the original in/out vote.

The as yet undetermined choices of the manner of leaving would, I'm sure, dictate the way that those who want to remain or leave vote. (And some will have changed their minds since 2016).
 

makv

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It's true! Does every Remainer you talk to understand the basic principles of the single market? Or their desire to further federalise and the impact it would have on the UKs status if we had stayed?

I rest my case m'lud

The reason I say the 52-48, is because how some Remainers have constantly called it too close to call and not a clear result, angling for a new vote. My perspective is it's a majority, we move on, whoever won. But the last 2 1/2 years would make people like me on principle alone, say it's not legitimate and we need another vote.

It is an absolute mess from left to right, and my desire now is just to get on with it and move to sorting the mess the country has been since Brexit reared it's head. The worst thing we can do for the youth of the country is to carry on arguing about a vote in 2016 and ignore everything else.

Time for adults to be adults...
It’s a pity the youth of the country didn’t get a say in the matter, isn’t it? Instead, they were shafted by the over 60s, who, frankly, aren’t going to have to live with the consequences for very long.
 

Yellow River

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No. Important to reiterate that a second referendum should be about the manner of leaving though, not a rehash of the original in/out vote.
The as yet undetermined choices of the manner of leaving would, I'm sure, dictate the way that those who want to remain or leave vote. (And some will have changed their minds since 2016).

I suspect campaigners for a 2nd referendum such as Alistair Campbell, Andrew Adonis, Tony Blair, etc want leave on the ballot paper.
 

Yellow River

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It’s a pity the youth of the country didn’t get a say in the matter, isn’t it? Instead, they were shafted by the over 60s, who, frankly, aren’t going to have to live with the consequences for very long.
Yeah, anyone over 60 shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

50- 60 year olds, each vote counts as half a vote.
30-50 year olds, each vote counts as one vote.
20-30 year olds, each vote counts as double.
Under 20s, each vote counts as three vote.
 

LowerSouth

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It’s a real travesty that many voters chose the referendum to register a protest.
The EU seems to have been blamed for all the ills in our economy and society.
The truth is a little closer to home.
Since the 70’s, successive governments whether Tory or Labour, have governed on a maximum 5 year cylce, with largely knee jerk or dogmatic policies.
In simple terms,UK Ltd has never done long term infrastructure planning, i.e. health and joined up welfare,education,transport etc.
This will not change if we stay or leave the EU, unless you and me press our politicians for change.
 
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Sarge

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Yeah, anyone over 60 shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

50- 60 year olds, each vote counts as half a vote.
30-50 year olds, each vote counts as one vote.
20-30 year olds, each vote counts as double.
Under 20s, each vote counts as three vote.
any former French citizens who have relocated and become British citizens I would imagine have votes that count double .... after all, everyone knows that away gauls count double in (or voting out of) Europe ;)
 

ZeroTheHero

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This will not change if we stay in or leave the EU, unless you and me press our politicians for change.
Except that the politicians in the winning party will be unrestrained in what they can do. It is THEM who will have 'taken back control' not US. They will be unrestrained by any European legislation and will be able to do exactl as they please. Mmm - chlorine washed chicken and hormone impregnated beef. And the American drug companies taking over the NHS.
 

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