National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

Brexit - Deal or No Deal?

  • Deal

    Votes: 47 29.0%
  • No Deal

    Votes: 74 45.7%
  • Call in the Donald

    Votes: 4 2.5%
  • Call in Noel Edmonds

    Votes: 5 3.1%
  • I don't care anymore

    Votes: 32 19.8%

  • Total voters
    162

Peterdev

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17 Dec 2017
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1,149
The guys obviously upset if a hard brexit happens because the contributions will stop and they will have to draw the money from elsewhere.
It looks like he’s lost the plot and lashing out at those who disagree with him. Maybe the EU is not all it is cracked out to be.
I would have liked to see the politicians get on and get some deal but that’s looking very unlikely with irrational meddling politicians from the EU.
 

YellowTaxi

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9 Jan 2018
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Sky Sources say Japanese car manufacturer Honda is preparing to close its Swindon plant with the loss of 3,500 jobs
 

tonyw

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Sky Sources say Japanese car manufacturer Honda is preparing to close its Swindon plant with the loss of 3,500 jobs
Although rumour has it that this is not tied to Brexit, as much as to the recent signing of the EU-Japan trade deal.

Sounds like they're not planning to move the plant to mainland Europe, but rather are going to move all production back to Japan because they no longer have to pay tariffs on Japan-to-EU exports and they can undertake production 'back home' more efficiently.

Tangentially, I guess this is still an anti-Brexit argument, just not as direct, as it emphasizes how signing free trade deals left and right with other countries is not going to bring manufacturing back to Britain for anything even remotely commoditized, as we just don't do it as cheaply and efficiently as other competing nations...…...
 

Banbury2018

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Although rumour has it that this is not tied to Brexit, as much as to the recent signing of the EU-Japan trade deal.

Sounds like they're not planning to move the plant to mainland Europe, but rather are going to move all production back to Japan because they no longer have to pay tariffs on Japan-to-EU exports and they can undertake production 'back home' more efficiently.

Tangentially, I guess this is still an anti-Brexit argument, just not as direct, as it emphasizes how signing free trade deals left and right with other countries is not going to bring manufacturing back to Britain for anything even remotely commoditized, as we just don't do it as cheaply and efficiently as other competing nations...…...
They are also closing their factory in Turkey to move production back to Japan so irrelevant. One thing I find interesting is that the factory will remain as is until 2021/2 so just confirms nothing to do with Brexit.
Bmi airline administration is all about Brexit so some media would like us to think but it has been stated they have been losing substantial amounts of money each month for a long time and have basically run out.
 

Marked Ox

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9,234
They are also closing their factory in Turkey to move production back to Japan so irrelevant. One thing I find interesting is that the factory will remain as is until 2021/2 so just confirms nothing to do with Brexit.
Bmi airline administration is all about Brexit so some media would like us to think but it has been stated they have been losing substantial amounts of money each month for a long time and have basically run out.
Brexit is a contributory factor with the Airline, it is not the only factor though. The collapse in the exchange rate for £ Sterling was wholly down to Brexit which has added a good 15% to their costs.
 

YellowTaxi

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Joined
9 Jan 2018
Messages
194
Anyone else noticed that for certain posters nothing bad has anything to do with Brexit. They gleefully cheer on what they call no-deal Brexit without the faintest idea of the consequences.

Still You've got your conutry back. Or Rather Jacob rees Mogg's got it- and he';s moving his hedge fund to Dublin. Believe there'll be some vacancies for forelock-tuggers down Somerset way
 

Banbury2018

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544
Anyone else noticed that for certain posters nothing bad has anything to do with Brexit. They gleefully cheer on what they call no-deal Brexit without the faintest idea of the consequences.

Still You've got your conutry back. Or Rather Jacob rees Mogg's got it- and he';s moving his hedge fund to Dublin. Believe there'll be some vacancies for forelock-tuggers down Somerset way
Has anyone also noticed that with some posters everything bad is to do with Brexit. The world economy is shrinking as is the European economy with Italy already in recession and others on the edge of it,not forgetting the debt to GDP of some of these countries.
Getting out of theEu now will save us some of the fall out in 10 years when it has all gone tits up.
Just for the record I have travelled to many countries in the Eu and will continue to do so when time allows and like the people I have come across generally. I also think there are things we could learn from them rather than places elsewhere.
 

Pete Burrett

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6 Dec 2017
Messages
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Oooh! No posts on here for a while, yet Brexit trundles on, so time to raise the thread's profile again ....

(Cards on table ....) I've always been a remainer (or, for those more interested in sloganising than debating, a 'remoaner' or advocate of 'Project Fear') and while my ability to stay interested in this never-ending charade has waned somewhat, I've still to hear a convincing argument to make me change my mind.

Just listened to a woman on the TV who proudly proclaims herself as an educated businesswoman and devout leaver, even though she still believes the side of the bus telling us how the amount we 'give' the EU could otherwise be spent at home (you know, building hospitals or primary schools or whatever).

Anyway, she was getting quite excited about others claiming that those who voted leave didn't know what they were voting for. She insisted she knew EXACTLY (her emphasis) what she was voting for. When asked to clarify she said 'to leave the EU'. And there's the problem for me. This damn referendum gave a simplistic choice that NO-ONE (my emphasis) could have understood the ramifications of.

The woman in question didn't know the terms of Brexit and how it might affect her, her family and her business. She had no idea, she just wanted out in the unquantifiable belief that 'we' could do better outside the EU.

Similarly, remainers like me had no idea of the implications of Brexit. I voted remain because, despite the obvious frailties in the way the EU was administered, it seemed more sensible to maintain a status quo under which our economy was still prospering than take a leap in the dark in some jingoistic belief that 'Europe' was holding GREAT Britain back.

Discuss, but let's please try to avoid slogans, like 'taking back control', for example.
 
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Sheik djibouti

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Agree with you Pete. I have yet to see a convincing, coherent, fact-based argument for leaving the EU and how we will be better off economically, scientifically, academically and even culturally as a result.

I have seen plenty of scare stories about Maastricht treaty and what will happen from 2020 onwards if we were to stay (EU Army, have to adopt the Euro, lose our veto etc etc). All have been debunked. All are more project fear than the original project fear itself! The EU army bit always makes me laugh, have we forgotten that we're part of NATO and already do their (or should I say the US') bidding?

I also see that non-EU immigration is up(from the bit we have ALWAYS had sovereign control over), whilst EU immigration is at an all time low. I have never had a particular issue with immigration (at least not one that could be specifically blamed on the EU) - many who voted leave did. Am I the only one to see the irony here?

I also see that the good old US of A have published their opening gambit for a US/UK trade deal and (shock, horror!!) it includes reducing food standards and removing tariffs, which poses a significant risk to the UK food and other industry, not to mention the NHS. How far should we bend over, Uncle Sam?

The country is already crippled by Brexit and has been for most of the last 2 years. The amount of resource in the public sector that has been diverted and is actively working on Brexit and the contingency planning required is eye-watering and scandalous. And lest we forget, this is just working on the initial exit and interim arrangements, let alone the longer term relationship and deals that we will need. So expect masses of public sector resource tied up in that for most of the next decade, with you and I the good old tax payer funding the lot, whilst vital services are neglected and slashed yet further. All at a time when the economy will be weaker (no denying that now) and the tax revenue will be lower as a result....great!

And finally on the ridiculous concept of "taking back control" Can anybody honestly say that they WANT to give more control to the shower of incompetents who have been running this sh!tshow for the last 2 years? Because that is EXACTLY what taking back control will do. I would far rather have the collective talent of 28 states making decisions that benefit ALL of us than some 2-bit career politicians in Westminster whose own ambition is king.

Not to mention the civil servants who will be expected to take up the strain and do the real work, (un-elected bureaucrats in Brexiteer speak ;)) whilst still being expected to stomach below cost of living wage rises, adding to the decade of it they've already endured, unlike their lords and masters in parliament I hasten to add.

The more I think about it, the more I realise that the 2016 vote really did put the dum in referendum.
 

Pete Burrett

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6 Dec 2017
Messages
947
As we learn more about the likely effects of leaving, it does seem logical that a better-informed population should vote again, this time in a better position to make a judgement. So we would vote on the terms of leaving, rather than having another 'in or out' poll.

I do find it hard to believe that so many people don't get the not-so-subtle difference between the original vote and a totally different second poll to decide terms. How many times have you heard ardent leavers ranting that 'we've already had a vote, we don't need another', thus totally missing the point?

Unfortunately, a second vote - this time on terms - might be a tad confusing, with many voters expecting another 'leave or remain' choice at the ballot and many papers spoiled.

I would certainly be in favour of a second poll (on terms), but when should this be held? At what point should the powers that be decide the British populace are adequately informed?
 

Steve McAvoy

Junior Member
Joined
28 Mar 2018
Messages
95
Despite the relentless attacks on Corbyn as far as I’m concerned his performance at the 2016 election has prevented the far right free market zealots from reducing this country to a bean feast for the wealthy and privileged. He gets my vote every time. Just suppose May had got her majority- doesn’t bear thinking about. Whatever the outcome of the Tory Brexit, it could have been so much worse.
 

Marked Ox

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Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
9,234
Agree with you Pete. I have yet to see a convincing, coherent, fact-based argument for leaving the EU and how we will be better off economically, scientifically, academically and even culturally as a result.

I have seen plenty of scare stories about Maastricht treaty and what will happen from 2020 onwards if we were to stay (EU Army, have to adopt the Euro, lose our veto etc etc). All have been debunked. All are more project fear than the original project fear itself! The EU army bit always makes me laugh, have we forgotten that we're part of NATO and already do their (or should I say the US') bidding?

I also see that non-EU immigration is up(from the bit we have ALWAYS had sovereign control over), whilst EU immigration is at an all time low. I have never had a particular issue with immigration (at least not one that could be specifically blamed on the EU) - many who voted leave did. Am I the only one to see the irony here?

I also see that the good old US of A have published their opening gambit for a US/UK trade deal and (shock, horror!!) it includes reducing food standards and removing tariffs, which poses a significant risk to the UK food and other industry, not to mention the NHS. How far should we bend over, Uncle Sam?

The country is already crippled by Brexit and has been for most of the last 2 years. The amount of resource in the public sector that has been diverted and is actively working on Brexit and the contingency planning required is eye-watering and scandalous. And lest we forget, this is just working on the initial exit and interim arrangements, let alone the longer term relationship and deals that we will need. So expect masses of public sector resource tied up in that for most of the next decade, with you and I the good old tax payer funding the lot, whilst vital services are neglected and slashed yet further. All at a time when the economy will be weaker (no denying that now) and the tax revenue will be lower as a result....great!

And finally on the ridiculous concept of "taking back control" Can anybody honestly say that they WANT to give more control to the shower of incompetents who have been running this sh!tshow for the last 2 years? Because that is EXACTLY what taking back control will do. I would far rather have the collective talent of 28 states making decisions that benefit ALL of us than some 2-bit career politicians in Westminster whose own ambition is king.

Not to mention the civil servants who will be expected to take up the strain and do the real work, (un-elected bureaucrats in Brexiteer speak ;)) whilst still being expected to stomach below cost of living wage rises, adding to the decade of it they've already endured, unlike their lords and masters in parliament I hasten to add.

The more I think about it, the more I realise that the 2016 vote really did put the dum in referendum.
I think this is a perfect footnote to your post:


That the incompetent Chris Grayling is still a minister sums up how screwed we really are.
 
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Gary Baldi

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6 Dec 2017
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4,137
I think we should take back control ;):D

I might suggest very few people truly knew what they were voting for on both sides, but it's the same for most elections isn't it? There are plenty of people who will just vote Conservative, Labour even if their manifesto said something truly silly. Remainers remorse is still strong.

The issue with a 2nd vote, as I have asked many times is...

What do we what vote for? When do we vote for it? What do we do if the result is 52-48 the other way? I can't see Leavers staying quiet. What constitutes a final vote on the EU? Who agrees on what goes on the polling card? How will a vote be structured? How does this affect the European elections in June? How will campaign finance laws control what is spent? Etc.

At some point, the UK needs to stop squabbling with itself over Brexit and get on with some equally more important items that have been left untouched since later 2015. We need to move on. The NHS needs to sorting out. The future power needs to be sorted out. We need to build more houses. We need reinvest in public services. Etc.

A 2nd vote will only condemn the UK to another few years of arguing and division. Can we really afford to do that?
 

chuckbert

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8 Dec 2017
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638
I might suggest very few people truly knew what they were voting for on both sides, but it's the same for most elections isn't it?
Doing that “even-handed” both-sides thing again GB?
No, both sides were not equally informed. Those voting remain knew what it was like to continue to be in the EU. Those who voted leave had no idea of how it would work and what the consequences would be (FFS even the govt still doesn’t know what it will mean years later). That isn’t a criticism of leavers - I’m quite fond of idealism, bravery and optimism as motivations.
But, it does quite clearly mean that there was not a level playing field of “knowing what they were voting for”.
 

Pete Burrett

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What do we what vote for? When do we vote for it? What do we do if the result is 52-48 the other way? I can't see Leavers staying quiet. What constitutes a final vote on the EU? Who agrees on what goes on the polling card? How will a vote be structured? How does this affect the European elections in June? How will campaign finance laws control what is spent? Etc.
Agree with most of that, but the bit I've highlighted is not really relevant, in my opinion. Another vote should be about not whether we leave or not, but HOW we leave, which shouldn't be as divisive as the original in/out vote. What questions to ask would, as you say, be the tricky bit, (Come to think of it, it could be just as divisive .... what a mess!)
 

chuckbert

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Isn’t the sensible widely-applied approach to not use 50:50 as the decision point? To enact a significant change you set the threshold for change at, say 60%. It is a bit conservative but puts the onus on changers to get a solid majority. Unfortunately that boat sailed with the first referendum.
 
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