Is OUSP Fit For Purpose?

[Scotchegg]

In case there are those that don't know, I am on the current Supporters Panel having "put my hand up" last summer. Unfortunately there were insufficient volunteers to warrant an election, but I would have been happy to have been subject to a vote should that have been needed.

I am also a life member of OxVox and have generally been supportive if everything they do. Unfortunately, they have also struggled to attract willing volunteers and its been a number of years since representatives were voted for. Arguably we are both unelected supporters who volunteer our time for the benefit of the wider fan base. I find it bizarre that some are so against one group over another, but that's their choice.

OUSP and OxVox do have some crossovers, but the major difference is that the Supporters Panel look to address match day issues whilst OxVox are much more about the governance of the club. Having worked with the panel I would say that 90% of the things we deal with don't ever make it on to this forum. There are occasions where elderly or vulnerable fans have been supported in getting to games, fans coming to their first game, children with additional needs etc. These things may not be seen by the wider fanbase, and may not matter to some, but for those involved they make a real difference.

There are also the initiatives such as @HerGameToo and #ProudYellows as well as trying to find ways to build on work with the Yellow Army or others to help enhance the matchday experience.

Things are far from perfect, but I'm proud of the small differences that we make and the impact those differences have on our fans. But we're equally consistent in our challenging of the board where appropriate. It is not always appropriate to disclose absolutely every conversation that takes place, but we are far from being the "useful idiots" that some have labelled us. Look at the stadium project exhibition where 5 panel members met with the Project Team and openly challenged some of the issues in how this was being presented, and how we had massively misjudged the impact on road closures. Unfortunately no one from OxVox was able to attend that meeting so it was us that represented so many you were unable to attend.

Also, there have been several occasions where the panel have been those distributing leaflets around Kidlington or prior to games. As well as going on Radio Oxford or having articles published in the Oxford Mail.

This might not be life changing, storming the board room stuff that some would want, but it has made a huge difference, especially when communication from official sources is lacking. And just in case this has been missed, this is all done by supporters in their own time and own expense. I have gained absolutely nothing out of my time on the panel and actually missed out on the full "matchday activation" that others experience because I'm "working".

I'd encourage everyone to join OxVox and as many as possible to give their time to represent OxVox and OUSP so that we can have full elections and get the representatives that the supporters want - whether that includes me or not.

But the division being created around fellow supporters is unnecessary, especially when it comes from a position of ignorance from some.

 

[LeftSideLarry]

Tolstoy lives.

 

[Carpy]

In case there are those that don't know, I am on the current Supporters Panel having "put my hand up" last summer. Unfortunately there were insufficient volunteers to warrant an election, but I would have been happy to have been subject to a vote should that have been needed.

I am also a life member of OxVox and have generally been supportive if everything they do. Unfortunately, they have also struggled to attract willing volunteers and its been a number of years since representatives were voted for. Arguably we are both unelected supporters who volunteer our time for the benefit of the wider fan base. I find it bizarre that some are so against one group over another, but that's their choice.

OUSP and OxVox do have some crossovers, but the major difference is that the Supporters Panel look to address match day issues whilst OxVox are much more about the governance of the club. Having worked with the panel I would say that 90% of the things we deal with don't ever make it on to this forum. There are occasions where elderly or vulnerable fans have been supported in getting to games, fans coming to their first game, children with additional needs etc. These things may not be seen by the wider fanbase, and may not matter to some, but for those involved they make a real difference.

There are also the initiatives such as @HerGameToo and #ProudYellows as well as trying to find ways to build on work with the Yellow Army or others to help enhance the matchday experience.

Things are far from perfect, but I'm proud of the small differences that we make and the impact those differences have on our fans. But we're equally consistent in our challenging of the board where appropriate. It is not always appropriate to disclose absolutely every conversation that takes place, but we are far from being the "useful idiots" that some have labelled us. Look at the stadium project exhibition where 5 panel members met with the Project Team and openly challenged some of the issues in how this was being presented, and how we had massively misjudged the impact on road closures. Unfortunately no one from OxVox was able to attend that meeting so it was us that represented so many you were unable to attend.

Also, there have been several occasions where the panel have been those distributing leaflets around Kidlington or prior to games. As well as going on Radio Oxford or having articles published in the Oxford Mail.

This might not be life changing, storming the board room stuff that some would want, but it has made a huge difference, especially when communication from official sources is lacking. And just in case this has been missed, this is all done by supporters in their own time and own expense. I have gained absolutely nothing out of my time on the panel and actually missed out on the full "matchday activation" that others experience because I'm "working".

I'd encourage everyone to join OxVox and as many as possible to give their time to represent OxVox and OUSP so that we can have full elections and get the representatives that the supporters want - whether that includes me or not.

But the division being created around fellow supporters is unnecessary, especially when it comes from a position of ignorance from some.

Thanks for poking your head up @Scotchegg

I think people's views have largely been pretty sensible, they want one voice, regardless of the issue being discussed. And to a lesser extent, they want representatives that are answerable to someone, in the case of OxVox, the membership.

I don't think anyone is critical of OUSP panel members, so really shouldn't take it personally.

Why is it that OUSP cannot live under the umbrella of OxVox?

 

[Scotchegg]

Thanks for poking your head up @Scotchegg

I think people's views have largely been pretty sensible, they want one voice, regardless of the issue being discussed. And to a lesser extent, they want representatives that are answerable to someone, in the case of OxVox, the membership.

I don't think anyone is critical of OUSP panel members, so really shouldn't take it personally.

Why is it that OUSP cannot live under the umbrella of OxVox?

I suspect it would be because OxVox simply wouldn't have the capacity to deal with matchday issues on top of everything else they do.

There is always an OxVox representative on all OUSP meetings and we work together on a number of shared projects. We are frequently two sides of the same coin.

 

[Essexyellows]

In case there are those that don't know, I am on the current Supporters Panel having "put my hand up" last summer. Unfortunately there were insufficient volunteers to warrant an election, but I would have been happy to have been subject to a vote should that have been needed.

I am also a life member of OxVox and have generally been supportive if everything they do. Unfortunately, they have also struggled to attract willing volunteers and its been a number of years since representatives were voted for. Arguably we are both unelected supporters who volunteer our time for the benefit of the wider fan base. I find it bizarre that some are so against one group over another, but that's their choice.

OUSP and OxVox do have some crossovers, but the major difference is that the Supporters Panel look to address match day issues whilst OxVox are much more about the governance of the club. Having worked with the panel I would say that 90% of the things we deal with don't ever make it on to this forum. There are occasions where elderly or vulnerable fans have been supported in getting to games, fans coming to their first game, children with additional needs etc. These things may not be seen by the wider fanbase, and may not matter to some, but for those involved they make a real difference.

There are also the initiatives such as @HerGameToo and #ProudYellows as well as trying to find ways to build on work with the Yellow Army or others to help enhance the matchday experience.

Things are far from perfect, but I'm proud of the small differences that we make and the impact those differences have on our fans. But we're equally consistent in our challenging of the board where appropriate. It is not always appropriate to disclose absolutely every conversation that takes place, but we are far from being the "useful idiots" that some have labelled us. Look at the stadium project exhibition where 5 panel members met with the Project Team and openly challenged some of the issues in how this was being presented, and how we had massively misjudged the impact on road closures. Unfortunately no one from OxVox was able to attend that meeting so it was us that represented so many you were unable to attend.

Also, there have been several occasions where the panel have been those distributing leaflets around Kidlington or prior to games. As well as going on Radio Oxford or having articles published in the Oxford Mail.

This might not be life changing, storming the board room stuff that some would want, but it has made a huge difference, especially when communication from official sources is lacking. And just in case this has been missed, this is all done by supporters in their own time and own expense. I have gained absolutely nothing out of my time on the panel and actually missed out on the full "matchday activation" that others experience because I'm "working".

I'd encourage everyone to join OxVox and as many as possible to give their time to represent OxVox and OUSP so that we can have full elections and get the representatives that the supporters want - whether that includes me or not.

But the division being created around fellow supporters is unnecessary, especially when it comes from a position of ignorance from some.

Remind me who "exist`s to provide an independent and accountable voice for supporters on matters affecting our club and on the whole experience of being a fan of OUFC? "

See the highlighted bit? That is what OUSP purport to do in the above essay. Something that OxVox could do, with willing volunteers to do it.

Creating a second organisation is exactly what creates said division. If OUSP doesn't exist then said volunteers do the same things with OxVox.

Unity is strength, not subdividing supporters, who have a common purpose, into niche groups.

I`ll blissfully ignore the barbed ignorance bit as some of us have actually read and understand the language and direction of the Crouch report, and have a less blinkered view than those who are being used as the well fed, sacrificial lamb on the altar.

Please respond via Pumble.

 

[Carpy]

If OUSP doesn't exist then said volunteers do the same things with OxVox.

This is exactly my argument and annoyance with it, the same volunteers could volunteer their time while within the OxVox purview, I'm still not clear why this isn't the obvious choice, or why it is such a terrible idea.

 

[Scotchegg]

This is exactly my argument and annoyance with it, the same volunteers could volunteer their time while within the OxVox purview, I'm still not clear why this isn't the obvious choice, or why it is such a terrible idea.

Why is it so terrible to have two groups working together to achieve the same thing?

 

[Paul Cannell]

Creating a second organisation is exactly what creates said division. If OUSP doesn't exist then said volunteers do the same things with OxVox.

Unity is strength, not subdividing supporters, who have a common purpose, into niche groups.

There ya go. In a nutshell.

 

[Essexyellows]

There ya go. In a nutshell.

Some will still not "get it".

They reach a point where they are too scared to disassemble what has been created even if it isn`t working.

 

[Carpy]

two groups working together to achieve the same thing

You can't guarantee this, especially where one of the groups ultimately doesn't answer to anyone but themselves

Can you think of any benefits? I certainly can't, your point about lack of volunteers doesn't hold water if existing volunteers of OUSP simply headed on over to OxVox

 

[Scotchegg]

It seems like most of those questioning OUSP are against any organisation beyond OxVox rather than anything OUSP or the Panel members are doing themselves.

Therefore, maybe you should contact @OxVox and ask if they have the capacity to deal with the day to day matchday issues that are currently picked up by the Supporters Panel, or whether they need to expand to incorporate this work.

Would an OxVox Supporters Panel work better?

 

[OUSP]

Why do folk assume 2 groups divide and conquer? How about thinking of it as offering two routes, which are slightly different but work together where appropriate. Supporters can engage with one, both or neither. Some have a preference for one, some for another.

OUSP members are based in all stands and get to know our areas. Our photos are available on the club website so fans know who we are. For some people that familiar face and regular contact is important. Some people don't want to join a Trust (although we would encourage everyone to do so).

OUSP meets with the club at an operational level, and meets more frequently than OxVox, making it easier for us to handle routine matchday issues and short-term items. A member of OxVox attends these meetings. OxVox deals primarily with longer term strategy and governance. OUSP doesn't affect that.

There are advantages to having two recognised fan groups, in fact few clubs have only one.
Two groups doubles supporter influence in key areas, for example the stadium. Both groups are registered stakeholders so the councils and the club have to engage with both. Representatives from both groups spoke at Council meetings on behalf of fans. Both groups met with the Council in the stakeholder engagement process. That doubles the time and opportunity for fan input to these discussions.
Any issues around communication are not down to the existence of two fan groups.

I suspect some of us will have to agree to disagree on this, but that range of views is what makes a fanbase.
COYY.

 

[LeftSideLarry]

Any issues around communication are not down to the existence of two fan groups.

That is true.

It’s down to Adam Benson and his lackey, Tim Williams, who appear not to give two hoots about either group, the fine work of The Yellow Army and supporters in general.

 

[Essexyellows]

Why do folk assume 2 groups divide and conquer? How about thinking of it as offering two routes, which are slightly different but work together where appropriate. Supporters can engage with one, both or neither. Some have a preference for one, some for another.

OUSP members are based in all stands and get to know our areas. Our photos are available on the club website so fans know who we are. For some people that familiar face and regular contact is important. Some people don't want to join a Trust (although we would encourage everyone to do so).

OUSP meets with the club at an operational level, and meets more frequently than OxVox, making it easier for us to handle routine matchday issues and short-term items. A member of OxVox attends these meetings. OxVox deals primarily with longer term strategy and governance. OUSP doesn't affect that.

There are advantages to having two recognised fan groups, in fact few clubs have only one.
Two groups doubles supporter influence in key areas, for example the stadium. Both groups are registered stakeholders so the councils and the club have to engage with both. Representatives from both groups spoke at Council meetings on behalf of fans. Both groups met with the Council in the stakeholder engagement process. That doubles the time and opportunity for fan input to these discussions.
Any issues around communication are not down to the existence of two fan groups.

I suspect some of us will have to agree to disagree on this, but that range of views is what makes a fanbase.
COYY.

A group? Its half a dozen willing volunteers who are not going to "double supporter influence" in any meaningful way.

One established, recognised & democratic group is all we need.

The same people can be the "familiar face" in the stand.

Meeting with the club "more frequently at an operational level" - its patently obvious from the minutes that the Club tend to send someone along to "fill" and little else. I can almost visualise the management drawing straws as to who is going to go along, represent the club and look interested.

Can`t wait for the Fans Forum to be organised................

 

[Carpy]

One established, recognised & democratic group is all we need.

The same people can be the "familiar face" in the stand.

It's so obvious that it's almost painful to see people try and fight it

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Obviously, no one should be personally critical of the members of OUSP. They are volunteers giving up their own time and are certainly trying to make a positive difference. And in some cases I am sure they do that, whether we hear about every little thing or not.

The problem is not with OUSP per se, it is with the club. The club can claim they are meeting with a supporters group (and they are) to hear about issues. But that's very convenient - they can sideline OxVox, not bother with Fan's Forums, communicate with the supporters either badly or not at all and still claim they are listening. Look at some of the recent minutes from both OUSP and OxVox: any substantive issues are batted away, deferred and ignored, while claiming that the fact the issues have been raised with the club is enough to show how open and responsive they are. Whether having two fans representative groups is a good thing is something I very much doubt.

 

[Carpy]

Obviously, no one should be personally critical of the members of OUSP. They are volunteers giving up their own time and are certainly trying to make a positive difference. And in some cases I am sure they do that, whether we hear about every little thing or not.

The problem is not with OUSP per se, it is with the club. The club can claim they are meeting with a supporters group (and they are) to hear about issues. But that's very convenient - they can sideline OxVox, not bother with Fan's Forums, communicate with the supporters either badly or not at all and still claim they are listening. Look at some of the recent minutes from both OUSP and OxVox: any substantive issues are batted away, deferred and ignored, while claiming that the fact the issues have been raised with the club is enough to show how open and responsive they are. Whether having two fans representative groups is a good thing is something I very much doubt.

Absolutely, no issues with the people within OUSP at all, they do fine work, but at such an important time in our history, I believe that should be done as one UNITED group backed by a thousand+ members, not a splinter group with no mandate

 

[TailsWeWin]

To be fair, I often get emails encouraging me to come to the next game, with tempting price reductions and good looking deals…..

Unfortunately they’re from Cheltenham Town FC.

 

[Essexyellows]

Absolutely, no issues with the people within OUSP at all, they do fine work, but at such an important time in our history, I believe that should be done as one UNITED group backed by a thousand+ members, not a splinter group with no mandate

This.

Although someone will be along shortly to justify the existence.

 

[captainox]

I always thought the OUSP was effectively a go between group of supporters to put pressure on the club for issues that would normally be sorted by an SLO.
However our SLO seems to be trying to do a bigger role as their day job, with the SLO factor being an occasional thing. So actually having the OUSP to raise things like stadium access and cleanliness, ticketing problems, away match information,

Oxvox for me have always been the longer term strategy, questioning and putting the pressure on the club for the big issues e.g. ownership, finances, stadium, masterplan etc. If there was a FOUL type movement needed in the future, I would expect Oxvox to be leading on that.

The two can exist and focus on different things, with the stadium piece likely to step-up in the coming months, do we really want Oxvox spending their time talking about why the pigeon sh!t hasn't been cleaned off Row X in the Oxford Mail Stand or putting pressure on the club for updates, news and plans.