Scotchegg
Well-known member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2017
- Messages
- 13,817
Everyone is responsible for their own actions.Tragically o can not see the ever happening
Everyone is responsible for their own actions.Tragically o can not see the ever happening
I judge people on their actions, not on who they are.Hypocrite. You’re always judging people on here.
So if I was your child and came to you and told you about the bullying and violence I had suffered. What would be your reaction ?Lives are probably destroyed by homophobia, I guess. But lives are destroyed by all sorts of issues (you can die laughing !) and I see something like drugs - which you conveniently don’t mention, preferring to quote bullying and abuse - as something far more important in trying to drum in to peoples mindset, especially young people. I’m not particularly bothered by the LGBT movement, it doesn’t affect me, doesn’t overly bother me and something I’m not particularly interested in. What’s wrong with that ?
If I want to disassociate myself from something like this and prefer Instead to take more interest in things I consider way, way more important - like the issues I’ve mentioned - why shouldn’t I ? Who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell me what I should support and what I shouldn’t ? I couldn’t really care less, I’m my own mind not swayed one bit by a load of left wing box ticking. As I’ve said, you can’t directly die from being gay but you can from taking drugs and I’d say those issues I pinpoint count for thousands more deaths a year than.
I‘ve got better things to do than, as a heterosexual man, worry about LGBT awareness. It might be at the top of your list and fair enough, it’s low down on mine. Where’s the problem when I consider there are far more pressing issues to donate time to ?
Yeah agreed on the US - the US isn't rated a top tolerant society though so I don't see how it's relevant. I'm not saying all western Christian democracies are tolerant I'm just saying almost all, if not all of the top scoring tolerant societies are western Christian democracies.That’s because those countries aren’t really very keen Christians on the whole - they’re fairly secular. The one that does have a lot of keen Christians, the US, is now a hotbed of intolerance and conspiracy theories and almost fell victim to a far right coup last year. Your figures about Muslims sound iffy but even so I would expect most young Muslims to become more secular and for gay and female Muslims to assert themselves.
Not sure why you’re trying to make light of the chanting issue when most on the board have been very positive?
I don’t have stats cos I’m just idly chatting. But I note that immigrants birth rates tend to fall to the level of their new countries after a generation or two. Anyway why are we talking about Muslims now? A bad thing happened, but look here’s another not very related thing!Yeah agreed on the US - the US isn't rated a top tolerant society though so I don't see how it's relevant. I'm not saying all western Christian democracies are tolerant I'm just saying almost all, if not all of the top scoring tolerant societies are western Christian democracies.
The figures about Muslims come from Statista which is a trusted source which you can check out if you want. Do you have conflicting statistics?
These hypothetical young progressive Muslims have an enormous battle on their hands - over 50% of UK Muslims in 2016 believed homosexuality should be illegal (poll conducted by ICM). 39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”, compared with 5% of the country as a whole.
Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds
Survey for Channel 4 documentary finds 23% want sharia law but most feel strong connection with Britainwww.theguardian.com
Anyway back to the original point - this might be the best time to be gay in the UK.
So if I was your child and came to you and told you about the bullying and violence I had suffered. What would be your reaction ?
Something like.. "go away I'm not interested" ?
You state that Oxford United should not be involved in Politically/sport led campaigns on LGBTQ+ issues do you also have that same view with the "kick it out campaign" against racism which is also a sport/politically lead campaign. You have just acknowledged and stated that homophobia destroyed lives the same as racism.
So should you now be condemning both campaigns ?
SO, AFTER A FEW DAYS TO CALM DOWN AND REFLECT....
1. I'm still massively proud to be an Oxford United fan.
2. The chant, in my eyes, was indeed wrong in every sense. However, it was also not a gut filled hatred rant. I took it to be lazy and poor judgement.
3. I'm proud that the Oxford United fans didn't join in
4. I'm proud that the Oxford United fans shut the chant down as quickly as they did
5. I'm pleased that the culprit appeared to realise their mistake, stopped and didn't repeat the event
6. I'm pleased that we've been able to discuss it
7. I'm so pleased I don't have to watch Wycombe play football every week
These are my reflections. Some of you may not agree and that's okay.
I agree with Ricky on this.Rather than all hanging up the guy, shaming him for having a different viewpoint , and essentially trying to shut him down….perhaps we let Dick express himself. Listen to his views. And in a calm considered unemotive way try to respond to his points.
I disagree with his views but the world is stronger from listening to a range of views and talking them out gently.
Force them underground and they can’t be addressed or evolved
I’m not for one moment suggesting apathy. ImApathy to prejudice is not all it’s cracked up to be. I like this quote from Sacha Baron Cohen (and not just because he moved to Perth), particularly the bit in bold:
I always had faith in the audience that they would realize that this was a fictitious country and the mere purpose of it was to allow people to bring out their own prejudices … I think the joke is on people who can believe that the Kazakhstan that I describe can exist. Borat essentially works as a tool. By himself being anti-Semitic, he lets people lower their guard and expose their own prejudice, whether it’s anti-Semitism or an acceptance of anti-Semitism. I remember, when I was in university I studied history, and there was this one major historian of the Third Reich, Ian Kershaw. And his quote was, “The path to Auschwitz was paved with indifference.” I know it’s not very funny being a comedian talking about the Holocaust, but I think it’s an interesting idea that not everyone in Germany had to be a raving anti-Semite. They just had to be apathetic.
I wasn’t really responding to you … more to people who say “I don’t care about that - not interested”.I’m not for one moment suggesting apathy. Im
suggesting that if everyone gets shouty and assumes there can’t be a range of views listened to then the issue disappears underground and learns different legs.
Not enough hours in the dayWhy not?
I'm sure big Dick is just a dozy old boy rather than some raving fascist, but there's nothing to 'learn' from some of his views. Believing that recognition and respect of gay people 'isn't all that important', and that other issues of his choice are 'more important', isn't a valid view that deserves weight and consideration. It doesn't make sense and is derived from ignorance.I agree with Ricky on this.
Cancellation is the new scourge of the 2020s...listen to the other guy, whether you agree with him or not, and you might just learn something
Perhaps, but what people can do is resolve 'not to be a dick' - so try to avoid doing things (especially as meaningless, unwitty and unoriginal as this chant) that P**s other people off unnecessarily. That's not 'cancel culture' - it's just common politeness.But you can’t care and be interested in every wrong in this world