Sarge
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wouldnt it depend on which hand picked judge that the unelected, non party member Cummings selects to hear the case?
National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll
- Thread starter Gary Baldi
- Start date
wouldnt it depend on which hand picked judge that the unelected, non party member Cummings selects to hear the case?
RyanioBirdio
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This is what I enjoy most about the “well if the EU veto a deal then what can we do besides leave anyway?” argument.
Well, if no deal is illegal, and the EU won’t give us one, then actually, revoking the process potentially becomes the legal default. No deal cannot be the default when it is outlawed AND there is an alternative option which requires purely UK decision making. If there was no option within our own sovereign jurisdiction (remember sovereignty being the name of the game?) then you could argue that we had been pushed out regardless of the outlawing of no deal, and therefore it was merely a weird, grey necessity. The EU cannot prevent us revoking and remaining on the same terms we had to begin with - the European court of justice already ruled that way a year ago - and we can do that any time we like.
Now, if we DIDN’T vote to revoke, that opens the game up again. If there wasn’t a majority then the argument could be made that again, we had no choice but to fall out. But in order to get to that point, revocation has to be put on the table and rejected. What can’t be done is a shrugging of shoulders if a deal cannot be reached. We’d also need to put the previously signed agreement back on the table as well as the chance to revoke.
No deal is not the default, it is a technicality that can only be reached if EVERY other option fails first. But each of those alternative options must be offered and fail before we topple out due to running out of options. If anybody can turn around and point out all the options that government chose to ignore, which all but proves they intentionally broke the law and engineered no deal, you haven’t seen anything yet in terms of legalities.
Gary Baldi
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Because Corbyn wrote an opinion piece in the Grauniad about Brexit that a few hours later was contradicted in an interview on TV by a member of the shadow cabinet.
It's brilliant viewing.
Gary Baldi
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I did laugh at Layla Moran's interview with Andrew Neil last night. She got well and truly Kwartenged. The Remainer Revoker position of complaining about a minority of people voting for Brexit/Johnson/Tories while then being perfectly happy to do the same they are complaining about if they get into Govt rather than highlights the self indulgent nature of the point of view.
It's really never about democracy, only the right kind of democracy that suits their point of view and nullifying a vote they don't like - Illiberal Democracy if you please. If the Tories or Brexit Party aren't clueless morons, they will use those sort of interviews in their election adverts.
It's really never about democracy, only the right kind of democracy that suits their point of view and nullifying a vote they don't like - Illiberal Democracy if you please. If the Tories or Brexit Party aren't clueless morons, they will use those sort of interviews in their election adverts.
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That of course suggests Corbyn has an opinion on something, which if the last 3 years is anything to go by I very much doubt...
chuckbert
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Just to argue with myself there is one fairly unhelpful outcome from the Aussie system, and that is the "donkey vote". If you are the first listed candidate on the paper you will do statistically better than the others, because a significant number of people just vote 1,2,3,4,5,6 ... down the paper!
m
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How do they decide which order the candidates are listed in?
chuckbert
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The Australian Electoral Commission randomise the order for the ballot paper. (Specifically to limit the influence of donkey votes - apparently 1-2% of votes!). Of course what they should really do is create a fully randomised set of ballot papers so that individual donkeys will get differently ordered ballot papers. Can't imagine how terrible counting those votes would be though - the single transferable vote PR system makes counting arduous enough as it is.
More here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_vote#Australian_House_of_Representatives
I believe this is inaccurate. "No deal is illegal" is a gross simplification.
What the parliamentary No Deal bill states is that if a Brexit deal isn't agreed in parliament by October 19th, or if parliament has not given its consent to a No Deal Brexit by then, then the government must send a letter to the President of the European Council requesting an Article 50 extension until 31 January 2020, and if the European Council agrees to an extension to the 31 January 2020, then the Prime Minister must immediately accept that extension.
The bill does not provide a legal pathway if the EU rejects the request for an extension.
In such circumstances, I believe a No Deal Brexit would remain the default position, and parliament would have to call a vote to revoke Article 50 outright as the only means to prevent it. Whether they would go that far, I'm not sure.
It's also probable that the EU would agree to a further extension if we had passed a vote for either a second referendum or a General Election.
Even as an ardent remainer, I'm angry with the Lib Dems and Labour that they've left this possibility on the table.
They had the opportunity to make their case to the British people through a General Election and, if they won it, permanently remove the possibility of a No Deal Brexit. But they were too scared of losing to do so, and decided to play games instead. Which could now blow up in their, and everyone who opposes leaving the EU without a deal's faces.
They were right to not trust Johnson as he has amply demonstrated he is utterly untrustworthy (and then chuck Dominic Cummings into the mix). It is not about being scared to have an election for the Lib Dems or Labour, if anything the Lib Dems have everything to gain with an election. Johnson could have changed the GE date unitl after 31st October (as he wass allowed) and we would have been out of the EU making "no deal" legislation irrelevant. That Johnson was willing to suffer a 2nd vote on a GE was telling and his team are still looking at avoiding the "no deal" legislation as it is.
I'm sorry, but I think that argument is just a lame excuse.
Sure, it would be idiotic to trust BoJo and his team, but there's plenty of legal mechanisms that could have been implemented in parliament to lock in the date of an election.
They made a political calculation that their chances of winning increase after they've forced BoJo into a humiliating climbdown on Brexit.
Instead, he and his team have been afforded time to explore creative ways of forcing Brexit; something they would not have had if they'd been defeated at the polls.
It was a fearful and undemocratic position that the Lib Dems and Labour took.
Gary Baldi
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You'd hope that seeing as
As an aside, it's amazing to see a political leader have a complete inability to have an opinion on anything in probably on of the most politically virile times in our history.
Sarge
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meanwhile in Brussels, EU knock back Bozo's 'request' for the same deal as May , but with Backstop removed, cue Bozo blustering 'The EU wont negotiate' ??? .....
www.independent.co.uk
EU rejects Boris Johnson request for Brexit deal without Irish backstop
Brexit secretary’s request rebuffed during visit to Brussels
www.independent.co.uk
Sarge
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Edinburgh Labour MP Ian Murray states (what should be) the blatantly obvious in The Scotsman ....
www.scotsman.com
Brexit: How Boris Johnson is trying to fool public over no-deal – Ian Murray MP
Prime Minister Boris Johnson is just pretending he wants a Brexit deal with the European Union, so that he can blame the EU for the consequences of the no-deal Brexit that is his real goal, says Ian Murray MP.
www.scotsman.com
Gary Baldi
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He assumes that Boris can contain a single thought long enough to follow through with it? Or is he really not the idiotic buffoon that people claim he is?Edinburgh Labour MP Ian Murray states (what should be) the blatantly obvious in The Scotsman ....
Brexit: How Boris Johnson is trying to fool public over no-deal – Ian Murray MP
Prime Minister Boris Johnson is just pretending he wants a Brexit deal with the European Union, so that he can blame the EU for the consequences of the no-deal Brexit that is his real goal, says Ian Murray MP.
So I see that at their conference, Labour have backed Corbyn's policy of not having a policy on Brexit.
So when an election inevitably comes round (as it surely has to, and soon), and Brexit is equally inevitably going to be the key issue on voters' minds, they can be reassured that three-years on, Labour still hasn't made up its mind yet.
All I can say is that it's excellent news for Swinson and Farage...…..
[also, apparently, under Corbyn's Labour government Britain's going to have a 32 hour working week (down from the current 42.5 hour average) with no loss of pay, because that makes economic sense...….]
So when an election inevitably comes round (as it surely has to, and soon), and Brexit is equally inevitably going to be the key issue on voters' minds, they can be reassured that three-years on, Labour still hasn't made up its mind yet.
All I can say is that it's excellent news for Swinson and Farage...…..
[also, apparently, under Corbyn's Labour government Britain's going to have a 32 hour working week (down from the current 42.5 hour average) with no loss of pay, because that makes economic sense...….]
Yellow River
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I’m a classic floating voter but I certainly won’t be voting for Labour whilst Corbyn, McDonald and Abbott are at the helm. I also know quite a few centre/left leaning voters who are in despair at the current Labour leadership.
I suspect the other major parties can’t believe their luck to have the most useless official opposition in living memory.
Gary Baldi
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While I don't agree often with Sturgeon, she makes a valid point
And an interesting point re: inward investment around fintech from Andrew Neil
As for Labours 32 hour working week, it seems it's only advisory so basically it's as well meaning as sending people thoughts and prayers on social media. I am amazed at how indecisive Labour's position still is on many things outside of Marxism/Communism.
And an interesting point re: inward investment around fintech from Andrew Neil
As for Labours 32 hour working week, it seems it's only advisory so basically it's as well meaning as sending people thoughts and prayers on social media. I am amazed at how indecisive Labour's position still is on many things outside of Marxism/Communism.
