National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Gary Baldi]

I disagree (surprise, surprise!) Leaving and staying are not two sides of the same coin. There is no precedent of any country leaving the EU to set up its own trade agreements etc, so there is clearly a risk. But we know exactly how the EU works. You may consider it inefficient, and its MO could certainly be improved. But how is it inward-looking? It's a trading bloc of 28 nations that has deals with literally every country on earth.

Some people are promoting fears of a coming EU army and greater federalisation, but cannot provide evidence that the EU is even thinking about either. So why wouldn't the EU continue to operate in future as it is now, hopefully with some improvements in working practices?

EU Army - lots of talk about it across the EU and what PECO means.

Explainer: Irish MEPs have been raising concerns of a future 'EU Army' - but is it likely to happen?

Claims around the potential for an EU army have been prominent in the election debate

www.thejournal.ie

German support for EU army leads to dissent at candidates’ debate

European Commission president contenders in rigorous discussion over future of bloc

www.ft.com

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato/

The Donald is also concerned, but I guess for financial reasons than anything else.

Federalism - stuff like mandating the Euro, joined up taxation, etc - stuff in Lisbon Treaty. Been pushed constantly by the current incumbents and more recently by Macron. How would the UK work in a system if there is harmonisation of taxation within the Eurozone? I realise it's seen as scaremongering, but it could have a very big impact on the UK if we stayed. The link below is old but pertinent.

Federalism is the greatest threat to the future of Europe

There is no political mandate for an ever-closer European Union, and the risk is that if the Commission is pushing in this direction it will fuel disillusionment.

www.weforum.org

 

[Gary Baldi]

Honestly, I wish the Lib Dems, Greens & Change UK would simply have coalesced around a single pro-Remain entity for these elections.

Yes, they have substantial differences in policy when it comes to many domestic issues, but we all know that this is a single issue vote. It would've been much more effective for the promotion of that sole position if they had offered a single party (just for this election) and therefore maximized the number of seats gained by that party. As it is, they're gifting the PR high ground to Farage.

Frankly, I'm still trying to get my head around the d'Hondt method to work out if it makes a difference - in terms of pro-Remain representation - whichever one I vote for...….

It's the Liberal left desire to be seen as unique, and the lack of intelligence to winning elections. It's exacerbated when it comes to Europe as you simply bring more waffle into it all.

I do laugh at the utter chaos of Change UK. They've just got in the way through their own naive hubris and arrogance. Farage, like him or largely loathe him, has proved how to get it right as an insurgent party and find a nice to be unique. His issue will be after the Euro Elections and appeasing leavers on the left and right.

 

[Gary Baldi]

I was idly wondering this in a traffic jam this morning. If Anna Soubry or Heidi Allen had had milkshake poured over them like Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin (with the verbal abuse), would the reaction in the media be different? Don't get me wrong, Robinson and Benjamin absolutely got what they deserved because they are base level idiots, but as a theoretical point, where is the concern about their safety, etc in the media?

Do we have a two tier perception of violence against politicians because of who the victim is and what their views are?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Of course we have a different perception of violence depending on who the victim is. As an extreme example, there was an article on the (local?) news the other night about the unsolved murder of a bloke who was a convicted timeshare scammer, had heavy links with other organised crime and previous convictions for firearms and violence offences. He was killed in a professional hit. While I'm not happy about the fact that a murderer is roaming about the country, I am afraid I did just shrug. Apparently his family are pleading with people to come forward - presumably the same family that were living off the money he stole from other people! I feel very different about that crime than I would about the murder of an innocent random victim. I know he wasn't a politician, but I am sure you get the point.
In a similar way, 'Tommy Robinson' or Stephen Yaxley-Pillock preaches hatred, associates with extremists and stirs up racial tension. So yes, I do have a very different perception of the seriousness of him having milkshake poured over him and being shouted at to a similar 'attack' on other people.

 

[Sarge]

Yes, I wonder why ^ ????

 

[Gary Baldi]

Of course we have a different perception of violence depending on who the victim is. As an extreme example, there was an article on the (local?) news the other night about the unsolved murder of a bloke who was a convicted timeshare scammer, had heavy links with other organised crime and previous convictions for firearms and violence offences. He was killed in a professional hit. While I'm not happy about the fact that a murderer is roaming about the country, I am afraid I did just shrug. Apparently his family are pleading with people to come forward - presumably the same family that were living off the money he stole from other people! I feel very different about that crime than I would about the murder of an innocent random victim. I know he wasn't a politician, but I am sure you get the point.
In a similar way, 'Tommy Robinson' or Stephen Yaxley-Pillock preaches hatred, associates with extremists and stirs up racial tension. So yes, I do have a very different perception of the seriousness of him having milkshake poured over him and being shouted at to a similar 'attack' on other people.

I do too, don't get me wrong.

But when the media got all high and mighty about the words and posturing at Soubry, it does highlight the double standard we live in. I can't abide the likes of Tommy Robinson and their methods, but equally, they have a right to be protected as the likes of Soubry were/are. We can't afford to become a society whose first thought, is who and what are their views before we consistently apply the law.

That is no better than living in a dictatorship is it?

 

[YellowTaxi]

So are you saying there's no difference between an elected MP walking around Westminster and a mortgage fraudster with convictions for violence on a trip to a place he has no connection to to provoke trouble?

Anyone seen the story about children starving in Oxford schools? Imagine what the Conservatives have done in one of the richest cities in the country

 

[YellowTaxi]

I was idly wondering this in a traffic jam this morning. If Anna Soubry or Heidi Allen had had milkshake poured over them like Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin (with the verbal abuse), would the reaction in the media be different? Don't get me wrong, Robinson and Benjamin absolutely got what they deserved because they are base level idiots, but as a theoretical point, where is the concern about their safety, etc in the media?

Do we have a two tier perception of violence against politicians because of who the victim is and what their views are?

Yes Robinson is a racist thug with convictions for violence. He's never been elected to anything in his life, unless possibly he was elected wing monitor when he was in prison

 

[ZeroTheHero]

That's a similar dilemma to the 'should we let racists/fascists/bigots say what they want because to do so is a denial of free speech' one. I'm afraid for me it is as simple as: if you respect other people you deserve respect. If you incite bigotry and hatred towards others, then it's hard to be sympathetic when that rebounds on you. The law does take account of that - if you walk into an Afro-Caribbean club (for example) and shout racist nonsense at the top of your voice and get clouted, that will be treated very differently to a case where someone someone just randomly thumps you.
I'm not convinced that Yaxley-Pillock having a milkshake thrown over him is that serious tbh. Plenty of politicians have been 'egged' in the past.

 

[Peterdev]

Didn’t someone egg Corbyn and end up in prison whilst some years before Prescott thumped someone who egged him?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Disclaimer for my earlier post: Despite my seeming implication, Yaxley-Pillock isn't an elected politician. Or indeed a fully-fledged human.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Yes Robinson is a racist thug with convictions for violence. He's never been elected to anything in his life, unless possibly he was elected wing monitor when he was in prison

So does that mean it's ok to assault him - because that is what happened to he and Benjamin - if you look into the law of it.

And to repeat because you'll forget this. I do not back or endorse either Robinson or Benjamin, and found it quite funny they got milkshaked. But as a principle, why is it acceptable when its people we don't like, but not to others? Both are standing within the political process after all and should be protected in the same manner.

 

[Gary Baldi]

That's a similar dilemma to the 'should we let racists/fascists/bigots say what they want because to do so is a denial of free speech' one. I'm afraid for me it is as simple as: if you respect other people you deserve respect. If you incite bigotry and hatred towards others, then it's hard to be sympathetic when that rebounds on you. The law does take account of that - if you walk into an Afro-Caribbean club (for example) and shout racist nonsense at the top of your voice and get clouted, that will be treated very differently to a case where someone someone just randomly thumps you.
I'm not convinced that Yaxley-Pillock having a milkshake thrown over him is that serious tbh. Plenty of politicians have been 'egged' in the past.

Contrarily, I can say the likes of Anna Soubry aren't respecting me, so I can go egg them? For me to do that would utterly ridiculous and specious to think or do it.

But... Where does that line really exist? And where does the law come into it? Are we implicitly creating a two tier justice system because of people like Robinson and Benjamin's views are one we don't agree with?

 

[Gary Baldi]

Disclaimer for my earlier post: Despite my seeming implication, Yaxley-Pillock isn't an elected politician. Or indeed a fully-fledged human.

But he's running for election and could well be an MEP ?

 

[Whingit]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1130445422646956032

 

[Marked Ox]

Nigel Farage hit by milkshake during Newcastle walkabout

The Brexit Party leader had just given a short speech in Newcastle as part of a tour of the country.

www.bbc.co.uk

More here.

 

[Leysboy]

Looks like all the party leaders are getting a taste. Next up Mrs May!

 

[gofish2]

And the fun for Farage has only just begun

Nigel Farage facing investigation by EU authorities over lavish gifts from millionaire tycoon

Exclusive: Brexit Party leader failed to declare £450,000 allegedly spent on him by Arron Banks, MEP claims

www.independent.co.uk

Doesn't bode well for the antichrist....

 

[Leysboy]

Boris for PM

 

[Gary Baldi]

The Milkshake on Farage could be a lovely piece of PR for him. Just as well it wasn't anything more combustible than moo juice though, and part of me suspects some far right single brain cell being will do just that this week as some sort of revenge thing.

Still, it's all a laugh eh?

Boris as PM for one week would be worth it just to see the Trump Derangement Syndrome become Johnson Derangement Syndrome over here. Social media would melt quicker than a milkshake next to Tommy Robinson.