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Away Match Day Thread 08/02/2022 L1: Accrington Stanley v OUFC

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For those saying about lack of defenders we have had the following for CB’s this season, Mous, McNally, Moore, Brown, Thornley. Thornley gets recalled so Brown is brought in so still 2 players for each CB role plus Long.
I think that's really generous regarding the defenders. Thorniley and Brown were never here at the same time and both appeared to be last minute thoughts almost. Mous can't be included, would you feel confident having him play 90 minutes for a few games in a row? We've had 5 defenders for 4 spots all season, 5 and half if you include Mous. We've got wingers who can "do a job" at right back but absolutely nothing for left back when it's clear Seddon needs taking out the firing line. That isn't bad luck, it's bad planning.

Long gets injured, McNally has a personal issue, Brown gets injured. That is bad timing/luck.
You can’t sign loads of players incase we have a injury crisis.
Have you seen how many midfielders and wingers we have? If you think we're fine for numbers defensively then surely it's massive overkill and a huge waste of wages having 8 or so wide players on the books for 2 spots? Across those 5 positions we've got probably 13 or 14 players, some decent players won't even get in the squad and yet our back line is picked by default.

It was only today people were saying this is the best squad we have had in years!
It probably is, although the promotion team isn't far behind I think. That doesn't mean it can't be better balanced.
 
I think it may be true that the individuals we have within the squad are collectively the best we've had for quite a while. But as Joey says, the make up of the squad as a whole seems to be lopsided. I don't think that's an opinion that's surfaced since last night's loss - most on here have been saying that all season (jokes about buying more wingers, wondering if we will get more defenders, central strikers, defensive midfielders in the transfer window etc.).
 
Being one of the 307 last night, I dont think the 'doom' is necessary. The game last night was decided on very small margins. we had 2 chances cleared off the line (one was amazing) and the keeper made a decent save in the first 20 minutes from Holland one of those goes in and the game is totally different. Cant agree with the scapegoating of Seddon, he is being asked to predominantly be an attacking full back therefore will often be 'the wrong side of the ball' he also has not had a stable left sided centre back to work with. Also his winger always tends to be our less defensive one eg Holland or Whyte whereas Long tends to get Williams or Sykes in front who always track back. Without knowing the stats I would imagine Seddons goals/assists far outway the RB position.

Anyway onto Bolton, COYY
Agreed HM1, I also think Seddon is getting singled out too often. Yes, he’s made mistakes but all too often he’s been isolated by a lack of cover from his team mates.

As was said earlier, let’s forget this and move on to the next game. Bolton need to win and we should therefore have another open match.
 
Being one of the 307 last night, I dont think the 'doom' is necessary. The game last night was decided on very small margins. we had 2 chances cleared off the line (one was amazing) and the keeper made a decent save in the first 20 minutes from Holland one of those goes in and the game is totally different. Cant agree with the scapegoating of Seddon, he is being asked to predominantly be an attacking full back therefore will often be 'the wrong side of the ball' he also has not had a stable left sided centre back to work with. Also his winger always tends to be our less defensive one eg Holland or Whyte whereas Long tends to get Williams or Sykes in front who always track back. Without knowing the stats I would imagine Seddons goals/assists far outway the RB position.

Anyway onto Bolton, COYY
It was disappointing, but Accrington are a good team. They've had really decent results against the better teams in L1 this season. Oh well. How did Baldock play? Hard to tell on I player, but RadOx said his movement was excellent
 
It was disappointing, but Accrington are a good team. They've had really decent results against the better teams in L1 this season. Oh well. How did Baldock play? Hard to tell on I player, but RadOx said his movement was excellent
Movement very good and one low cross came in and he had got beyond the front post but had the quality to just feint and step over the ball and nearly created an opening. Most importantly looked fit and sharp
 
Unfortunately the team is set up to score goals, and if we don't score 2 or 3 we are likely to lose because we always concede. But sometimes you do have to play the conditions, and it was very clear that on a wet pitch with horrendous weather it was not for players that dribble the ball or have poor positional midfield qualities, so McGuane and Holland were poor choices. It was also going to be a game more likely to be unlocked by set pieces, so leaving Bodin out was a surprise, he can hardly be worn out already after playing just a small handful of games.

The positive to come out of the game was that Baldock has surely got above Winnall in the strikers choice. Maybe Taylor is one to come out for a game as well, but in Baldock we could well have a decent back up.

The manager does have to take criticism for the lack of defensive cover. Last season we had a dodgy spell in March when Long was injured, when he came back in April the team was suddenly brilliant again, he got injured for the play offs and we were rubbish defensively again. Long has started to have a history of having a few weeks out injured over the last couple of years so RB cover was clearly needed based on what has happened in matches without him before. It is a problem, and with no relief afforded to Seddon on the other side either we are scrambling a bit and relying on scoring lots of goals because we definitely can't keep them out.
 
For those saying about lack of defenders we have had the following for CB’s this season, Mous, McNally, Moore, Brown, Thornley. Thornley gets recalled so Brown is brought in so still 2 players for each CB role plus Long.
Long gets injured, McNally has a personal issue, Brown gets injured. That is bad timing/luck.
You can’t sign loads of players incase we have a injury crisis.
It was only today people were saying this is the best squad we have had in years!

With the EFL squad limit of 22, two to a position with additional depth provided by under 21's, that are exempt from said rule, seems like a rational way to divide this.

Lets compare that to the actual squad:
LB - Seddon / ?
CB - Brown/ Moore / McNally / Mous
RB - Long / Forde

Instantly it's clear we are lacking specialist LB cover.
Counter argument #1, Long can play left back.
This currently weakens our RB position as well, whilst also weakening LB by playing a player out of position, on his weak foot.
Counter argument #2, a CB can cover LB.
Due to the way that KR uses his full back to overload the opposition's midfield / defence, this limits how we attack down our left hand side, meaning oppositions know we will be attacking mainly down our right instead and adjust accordingly.

Our CB'S;
  • A very talented, promising but green\raw player in McNally.
  • A 35 year old player who recently had knee surgery, that despite being our only fit CB didn't get brought on with 35 minutes to go, in Mous.
    (It will say more than I, this forum, or even KR ever could about how the club really see Mous this weekend should Brown not be fit.)
  • A loanee, that his own fan's questioned & has so far not done any thing to disprove these rumors, looking shaky in both games.
    (though no decision can be made yet as he may not be fully match sharp / fit, so judgement MUST wait)
  • A championship calibre defender, that will ultimately end up there.
So of our four CB's, we have two clear first choice, one currently unknown quantity that has had an indifferent start and a player that has had 5 appearances in the league totalling 43 minutes in the season by Feb.

At RB, over a season as back up ford will make mistakes that lead to goals, which in turn will cost points. For the odd game as cover he is fine, a third choice emergency player. To go into a season without specialist full back cover on either side is negligence.

Your notion that this situation is just down to bad luck is wilfully ignorant or naïve at best.
This situation was created by KR building an imbalanced squad in the summer, and compounded by lack of defensive signings in January.

If you think there is no creed in anything I have said just look at the numerical data, despite having four places in defence we only have 7 players (Seddon, Moore, Long, McNally, Forde, Brown, Mousinho), in contrast to the three attacking position we have 9 players (Taylor, Sykes, Henry, Whyte, Holland, Williams, Bodin, Winnall, Baldock).

We can not expect to have to score 2+ goals in every game to win them.
(I wont even get into having only one CDM at the club, as this post is long enough already).

Is it me or do some of our posters only ever watch us lose? We never see them after a win!!
I would assume not everyone lives on this forum, unlike some.

When we win they go happily on with their lives, and when we lose they like to be analytical; discussing & debating what went wrong, as a form of cathartic release.
I would also assume the reverse to be true for people as well.
Nothing wrong with this.
 
With the EFL squad limit of 22, two to a position with additional depth provided by under 21's, that are exempt from said rule, seems like a rational way to divide this.

Lets compare that to the actual squad:
LB - Seddon / ?
CB - Brown/ Moore / McNally / Mous
RB - Long / Forde

Instantly it's clear we are lacking specialist LB cover.
Counter argument #1, Long can play left back.
This currently weakens our RB position as well, whilst also weakening LB by playing a player out of position, on his weak foot.
Counter argument #2, a CB can cover LB.
Due to the way that KR uses his full back to overload the opposition's midfield / defence, this limits how we attack down our left hand side, meaning oppositions know we will be attacking mainly down our right instead and adjust accordingly.

Our CB'S;
  • A very talented, promising but green\raw player in McNally.
  • A 35 year old player who recently had knee surgery, that despite being our only fit CB didn't get brought on with 35 minutes to go, in Mous.
    (It will say more than I, this forum, or even KR ever could about how the club really see Mous this weekend should Brown not be fit.)
  • A loanee, that his own fan's questioned & has so far not done any thing to disprove these rumors, looking shaky in both games.
    (though no decision can be made yet as he may not be fully match sharp / fit, so judgement MUST wait)
  • A championship calibre defender, that will ultimately end up there.
So of our four CB's, we have two clear first choice, one currently unknown quantity that has had an indifferent start and a player that has had 5 appearances in the league totalling 43 minutes in the season by Feb.

At RB, over a season as back up ford will make mistakes that lead to goals, which in turn will cost points. For the odd game as cover he is fine, a third choice emergency player. To go into a season without specialist full back cover on either side is negligence.

Your notion that this situation is just down to bad luck is wilfully ignorant or naïve at best.
This situation was created by KR building an imbalanced squad in the summer, and compounded by lack of defensive signings in January.

If you think there is no creed in anything I have said just look at the numerical data, despite having four places in defence we only have 7 players (Seddon, Moore, Long, McNally, Forde, Brown, Mousinho), in contrast to the three attacking position we have 9 players (Taylor, Sykes, Henry, Whyte, Holland, Williams, Bodin, Winnall, Baldock).

We can not expect to have to score 2+ goals in every game to win them.
(I wont even get into having only one CDM at the club, as this post is long enough already).


I would assume not everyone lives on this forum, unlike some.

When we win they go happily on with their lives, and when we lose they like to be analytical; discussing & debating what went wrong, as a form of cathartic release.
I would also assume the reverse to be true for people as well.
Nothing wrong with this.

Reasoned debate this 👆, it's one of the better first first posts that i've seen on this forum for sometime.
 
With the EFL squad limit of 22, two to a position with additional depth provided by under 21's, that are exempt from said rule, seems like a rational way to divide this.

Lets compare that to the actual squad:
LB - Seddon / ?
CB - Brown/ Moore / McNally / Mous
RB - Long / Forde

Instantly it's clear we are lacking specialist LB cover.
Counter argument #1, Long can play left back.
This currently weakens our RB position as well, whilst also weakening LB by playing a player out of position, on his weak foot.
Counter argument #2, a CB can cover LB.
Due to the way that KR uses his full back to overload the opposition's midfield / defence, this limits how we attack down our left hand side, meaning oppositions know we will be attacking mainly down our right instead and adjust accordingly.

Our CB'S;
  • A very talented, promising but green\raw player in McNally.
  • A 35 year old player who recently had knee surgery, that despite being our only fit CB didn't get brought on with 35 minutes to go, in Mous.
    (It will say more than I, this forum, or even KR ever could about how the club really see Mous this weekend should Brown not be fit.)
  • A loanee, that his own fan's questioned & has so far not done any thing to disprove these rumors, looking shaky in both games.
    (though no decision can be made yet as he may not be fully match sharp / fit, so judgement MUST wait)
  • A championship calibre defender, that will ultimately end up there.
So of our four CB's, we have two clear first choice, one currently unknown quantity that has had an indifferent start and a player that has had 5 appearances in the league totalling 43 minutes in the season by Feb.

At RB, over a season as back up ford will make mistakes that lead to goals, which in turn will cost points. For the odd game as cover he is fine, a third choice emergency player. To go into a season without specialist full back cover on either side is negligence.

Your notion that this situation is just down to bad luck is wilfully ignorant or naïve at best.
This situation was created by KR building an imbalanced squad in the summer, and compounded by lack of defensive signings in January.

If you think there is no creed in anything I have said just look at the numerical data, despite having four places in defence we only have 7 players (Seddon, Moore, Long, McNally, Forde, Brown, Mousinho), in contrast to the three attacking position we have 9 players (Taylor, Sykes, Henry, Whyte, Holland, Williams, Bodin, Winnall, Baldock).

We can not expect to have to score 2+ goals in every game to win them.
(I wont even get into having only one CDM at the club, as this post is long enough already).


I would assume not everyone lives on this forum, unlike some.

When we win they go happily on with their lives, and when we lose they like to be analytical; discussing & debating what went wrong, as a form of cathartic release.
I would also assume the reverse to be true for people as well.
Nothing wrong with this.
Exactly right. To expand on your last point, there are some posters of course who are negative but also there are some whoa re overly positive. Saying "here come the moaners" every time we lose and insisting everything is great at all times helps absolutely no one.
 
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With the EFL squad limit of 22, two to a position with additional depth provided by under 21's, that are exempt from said rule, seems like a rational way to divide this.

Lets compare that to the actual squad:
LB - Seddon / ?
CB - Brown/ Moore / McNally / Mous
RB - Long / Forde

Instantly it's clear we are lacking specialist LB cover.
Counter argument #1, Long can play left back.
This currently weakens our RB position as well, whilst also weakening LB by playing a player out of position, on his weak foot.
Counter argument #2, a CB can cover LB.
Due to the way that KR uses his full back to overload the opposition's midfield / defence, this limits how we attack down our left hand side, meaning oppositions know we will be attacking mainly down our right instead and adjust accordingly.

Our CB'S;
  • A very talented, promising but green\raw player in McNally.
  • A 35 year old player who recently had knee surgery, that despite being our only fit CB didn't get brought on with 35 minutes to go, in Mous.
    (It will say more than I, this forum, or even KR ever could about how the club really see Mous this weekend should Brown not be fit.)
  • A loanee, that his own fan's questioned & has so far not done any thing to disprove these rumors, looking shaky in both games.
    (though no decision can be made yet as he may not be fully match sharp / fit, so judgement MUST wait)
  • A championship calibre defender, that will ultimately end up there.
So of our four CB's, we have two clear first choice, one currently unknown quantity that has had an indifferent start and a player that has had 5 appearances in the league totalling 43 minutes in the season by Feb.

At RB, over a season as back up ford will make mistakes that lead to goals, which in turn will cost points. For the odd game as cover he is fine, a third choice emergency player. To go into a season without specialist full back cover on either side is negligence.

Your notion that this situation is just down to bad luck is wilfully ignorant or naïve at best.
This situation was created by KR building an imbalanced squad in the summer, and compounded by lack of defensive signings in January.

If you think there is no creed in anything I have said just look at the numerical data, despite having four places in defence we only have 7 players (Seddon, Moore, Long, McNally, Forde, Brown, Mousinho), in contrast to the three attacking position we have 9 players (Taylor, Sykes, Henry, Whyte, Holland, Williams, Bodin, Winnall, Baldock).

We can not expect to have to score 2+ goals in every game to win them.
(I wont even get into having only one CDM at the club, as this post is long enough already).


I would assume not everyone lives on this forum, unlike some.

When we win they go happily on with their lives, and when we lose they like to be analytical; discussing & debating what went wrong, as a form of cathartic release.
I would also assume the reverse to be true for people as well.
Nothing wrong with this.
Again another very good post.
IMO we haven't had a balanced squad since KR came in.
Brown was Hobsons choice in the end as we moved too late for our preferred targets. This happened last season and we ended up with Grayson. Let's hope Brown does turn out to be a better player!!
 
A win tonight feels like it could almost have us dreaming of automatics which is why I also have this bad feeling. Whenever we seem to flirt with that we seem to get a "reality check" result.
Am I paranoid or is this a pattern?
 
Again another very good post.
IMO we haven't had a balanced squad since KR came in.
Brown was Hobsons choice in the end as we moved too late for our preferred targets. This happened last season and we ended up with Grayson. Let's hope Brown does turn out to be a better player!!
Is Hobson part of the recruitment team?
 
I think we miss Jamie Hanson badly. He has the skill to unlock defences like Accrington’s, his pace, and acceleration would of run them ragged. I also think he would of scored from the little opportunities we had. His distribution and set pieces always find a team mate, and I think the sooner he’s back the better.
I am not sure about your view of Hanson. Apart from a couple of games most of the comments regarding Hanson have been unflattering. I was at the home Bristol rovers cup game and he cost us.
 
Exactly right. To expand on your last point, there are some posters of cpurse whonare negative but also there are some whonare overly positive. Saying "here come the moaners" every time we lose and insisting everything is great at all times helps absolutely no one.
Not sure anyone thinks things are always great nor analysing when things don't work out is an issue.. The problem as i see it is that it gets tiresome when it's evident some posters dislike the manager or certain players who then jump onto a thread after a defeat seemingly eager to offer more criticism but rarely praise after a win.

Perhaps opinions would be respected more if there was evidence of some balance throughout the season.

As an individual perhaps being reliant solely on Ifollow means i watch in a completely relaxed mode and find it easier to try and offer some balance these days.
 
Not sure anyone thinks things are always great nor analysing when things don't work out is an issue.. The problem as i see it is that it gets tiresome when it's evident some posters dislike the manager or certain players who then jump onto a thread after a defeat seemingly eager to offer more criticism but rarely praise after a win.

Perhaps opinions would be respected more if there was evidence of some balance throughout the season.

As an individual perhaps being reliant solely on Ifollow means i watch in a completely relaxed mode and find it easier to try and offer some balance these days.
Of course, being too entrenched either way isn't helpful. It seems to be a societal thing now where changing your opinion is frowned on and then it becomes a them vs us sort of thing with almost any issue you can think of.

Without going round the houses there are certainly people who criticise as soon as anything that could be deemed negative is posted, often in a condescending manner. There are people who only pop up when it's going badly but usually it's easy enough to ignore, the forum is a place to vent and it's easy enough to see when this is happening.

For what it's worth I still think we'll make the playoffs. No chance at all of the autos and I worry about us when we come up against someone physical and actually good at football as well in the playoffs. It's been a pattern since KR has been here, he's done a decent job but the constant refusal to address the defence or our inability to cope with physical teams is incredibly frustrating. I think we were lucky in previous seasons to not have many issues with injuries defensively, that seems to have run out this season.
 
I think when building your 22 outfield player squad (They don’t include GKs) you should be able to select 2 outfield sides. Just like we can in goal with Stevens/Eastwood.

Currently I see it like this.

Long Moore McNally Seddon
Henry Kane Brannagan
Sykes Taylor Browne

____ ____ ____ ____
Bodin Gorrin McGuane
Whyte Baldock Holland

We don’t have any specialist back up for our starting back 4. The only cover you could claim is Brown who’s just come on loan but he’s now out for a while supposedly. Even the fact Gorrin is out for the season wasn’t addressed in Jan.

Instead of the the specialist 4 players (RB, CB, CB, LB) we have filled the spots with Winnall, Forde, Williams, Hanson, Mousinho, *Brown*.
 
I think when building your 22 outfield player squad (They don’t include GKs) you should be able to select 2 outfield sides. Just like we can in goal with Stevens/Eastwood.

Currently I see it like this.

Long Moore McNally Seddon
Henry Kane Brannagan
Sykes Taylor Browne

____ ____ ____ ____
Bodin Gorrin McGuane
Whyte Baldock Holland

We don’t have any specialist back up for our starting back 4. The only cover you could claim is Brown who’s just come on loan but he’s now out for a while supposedly. Even the fact Gorrin is out for the season wasn’t addressed in Jan.

Instead of the the specialist 4 players (RB, CB, CB, LB) we have filled the spots with Winnall, Forde, Williams, Hanson, Mousinho, *Brown*.

Except that we don`t play with a standard RB/LB so bringing one in would be a pointless luxury.

Brown was/is supposed to be cover for Seddon at LWB.
 
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So what is the prognosis on Brown? I only heard KR say could be a ‘while’

I thought he was decent against Pompey, but then he was poor last night (along with many).
 
With the EFL squad limit of 22, two to a position with additional depth provided by under 21's, that are exempt from said rule, seems like a rational way to divide this.

Lets compare that to the actual squad:
LB - Seddon / ?
CB - Brown/ Moore / McNally / Mous
RB - Long / Forde

Instantly it's clear we are lacking specialist LB cover.
Counter argument #1, Long can play left back.
This currently weakens our RB position as well, whilst also weakening LB by playing a player out of position, on his weak foot.
Counter argument #2, a CB can cover LB.
Due to the way that KR uses his full back to overload the opposition's midfield / defence, this limits how we attack down our left hand side, meaning oppositions know we will be attacking mainly down our right instead and adjust accordingly.

Our CB'S;
  • A very talented, promising but green\raw player in McNally.
  • A 35 year old player who recently had knee surgery, that despite being our only fit CB didn't get brought on with 35 minutes to go, in Mous.
    (It will say more than I, this forum, or even KR ever could about how the club really see Mous this weekend should Brown not be fit.)
  • A loanee, that his own fan's questioned & has so far not done any thing to disprove these rumors, looking shaky in both games.
    (though no decision can be made yet as he may not be fully match sharp / fit, so judgement MUST wait)
  • A championship calibre defender, that will ultimately end up there.
So of our four CB's, we have two clear first choice, one currently unknown quantity that has had an indifferent start and a player that has had 5 appearances in the league totalling 43 minutes in the season by Feb.

At RB, over a season as back up ford will make mistakes that lead to goals, which in turn will cost points. For the odd game as cover he is fine, a third choice emergency player. To go into a season without specialist full back cover on either side is negligence.

Your notion that this situation is just down to bad luck is wilfully ignorant or naïve at best.
This situation was created by KR building an imbalanced squad in the summer, and compounded by lack of defensive signings in January.

If you think there is no creed in anything I have said just look at the numerical data, despite having four places in defence we only have 7 players (Seddon, Moore, Long, McNally, Forde, Brown, Mousinho), in contrast to the three attacking position we have 9 players (Taylor, Sykes, Henry, Whyte, Holland, Williams, Bodin, Winnall, Baldock).

We can not expect to have to score 2+ goals in every game to win them.
(I wont even get into having only one CDM at the club, as this post is long enough already).


I would assume not everyone lives on this forum, unlike some.

When we win they go happily on with their lives, and when we lose they like to be analytical; discussing & debating what went wrong, as a form of cathartic release.
I would also assume the reverse to be true for people as well.
Nothing wrong with this.

22 outfield players. So we could have two players for each defensive position and still have six wingers!
 
On February 1st, I said on here that I was disappointed by the transfer window and KR would have to get lucky with defensive injuries/suspensions/Covid cases for the remainder of the season (as, for the most part, he has been for the past two years).

Fast forward ten days, and it looks like his (and our) luck has already run out. Long & Brown injured, McNally absent.
Unless one or more of them can play at the weekend, then I've genuinely no idea what our back four is going to look like.

Three injuries/absences shouldn't qualify as a crisis (if we had three wingers or attacking midfielders out injured, we would have no problems whatsoever). That's not especially bad luck, that's normal lower league football wear-and-tear. But the way KR has constructed the squad, it is suddenly a crisis for us.

Maybe McNally and/or Long will be able to play on Saturday, or maybe we'll be able to brazen it out with a makeshift back four just through the quality of our attacking play. But if we can't field a proper defense and it starts to cost us points, then KR better not start pointing fingers anywhere but at the mirror. Because many of us have been (virtually) screaming at him to bring in more defensive cover for literally years.
 
We're not quite doing that well - we've got 53 points from 30 games which is an average of 1.76 points a game.
...

However, match our current PPG for the rest of the season we'll be sat very happily on 81 points at the end of the season which would put us comfortably into the playoffs, and in three of the last 10 seasons would have us as high as 3rd, although you have to go back to 05/06 for the last time it was enough for autos and it certainly won't be enough this year with Wigan and Rotherham both fairly comfortably over 2 ppg thus far.
...

A win tonight will be a big step towards that!

Unfortunately, as we didn't win last night, the carrying on with current PPG reasoning is not looking so rosy.

If we continued on our current PPG, then it's only reasonable to assume all other teams also will.

Unfortunately, that would put us in 8th position, as MK, Wycombe, Sunderland, Wednesday and Plymouth are all currenty doing better.
 

As convincing an argument for bringing in a LB as ive heard all day tbf.

Seriously, you are building a team in your head with the parameters you want
and are not taking into account KR`s style of play or how he sets up his team.
 
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