General What needs to change?

[Manorlounger]

So you don’t understand why clubs with wage budgets of £5m-£8m would be more attractive than one at £3-£4m no? Clubs that are traditionally more successful and have proven to have higher ceilings in the last 30 years as well?

I love the nostalgia and bias, but there isn’t a sensible narrative that suggests we’re failing because we’ve not finished above clubs of that size and stature.

All of which supports my argument. You have resigned yourself to OUFC being a minnow for ever. And, for incorrect reasons. Wage budgets vary, of course but to say that we are less attractive to players(I assume that is who you mean) is a flawed argument. If the negotiation is carried through by club, player and agent and the outcome is that the one deems the other has not met expectations/desires/contractual obligation, then that is not a matter of attraction it is simply that one side is not happy with the other side. To argue that clubs with higher budgets are 'traditionally' more successful is also flawed, what are those 'big' clubs doing in league 1? If they are more successful, surely they should be in the Championship or Premiership? That they have fallen into the lower leagues merely displays how, despite paying their players more, they have not enjoyed more success. Currently OUFC is paying some high salaries for certain players, are they scoring more goals, providing more assists?
Success is achieved by how well the team performs, how well they are managed, coached and trained. Not by how much they are paid.

 

[Millman]

I'm not sure a lot needs to change. As has been mentioned here a more balanced squad with a few less passengers, a bit more tactical flexibility and we could challenge for the play offs next season.

I read here a few people stating we are punching our weight and others stating we should be better. I think the most frustrating thing is we have the basis for a good team one capable of achieving more than it has this season, but a few silly mistakes like lack of cover, a few bad transfers, and assembling the squad too late stopped us from really pushing forwards this year. If Karl had been able to play our best players all season we would have been in the plays offs but that just doesn't happen and there was little quality cover when the inevitable injuries occurred. I think what annoys some is that a lot of this was foreseen by us before we even kicked a ball.

A good summer recruitment done quickly with fewer mistakes and we will be stronger (yes even if we have to sell a player).

 

[westyorkshireexile]

Money can bring success as long as it is spent wisely as Peterborough have done. If the money men do come to fruition and are prepared to invest heavily in proven performers, not has-beens or mediocre players such as Hanson, then we could achieve success. This would also depend upon retaining our current defence with the addition of decent back-ups.

 

[Marked Ox]

Money can bring success as long as it is spent wisely as Peterborough have done. If the money men do come to fruition and are prepared to invest heavily in proven performers, not has-beens or mediocre players such as Hanson, then we could achieve success. This would also depend upon retaining our current defence with the addition of decent back-ups.

Tbf Peterborough have been spent a fair few seasons to spend that money wisely! This year with Taylor (I think that is the name, ex-Barnet), Smozdics and JCH they definitely got it right this year though.

 

[WRox]

All of which supports my argument. You have resigned yourself to OUFC being a minnow for ever. And, for incorrect reasons. Wage budgets vary, of course but to say that we are less attractive to players(I assume that is who you mean) is a flawed argument. If the negotiation is carried through by club, player and agent and the outcome is that the one deems the other has not met expectations/desires/contractual obligation, then that is not a matter of attraction it is simply that one side is not happy with the other side. To argue that clubs with higher budgets are 'traditionally' more successful is also flawed, what are those 'big' clubs doing in league 1? If they are more successful, surely they should be in the Championship or Premiership? That they have fallen into the lower leagues merely displays how, despite paying their players more, they have not enjoyed more success. Currently OUFC is paying some high salaries for certain players, are they scoring more goals, providing more assists?
Success is achieved by how well the team performs, how well they are managed, coached and trained. Not by how much they are paid.

‘Resigned myself to being a minnow forever’?! All I’ve stated is that it’s not failure to finish below certain clubs based on them offering almost identical employment at significantly higher wages, and having demonstrated a greater ceiling for success in recent years, thus suggesting they could consolidate at a higher level more capably based on previous performance. Sure we’re all here now, but 15 years in the PL (plus however many Div 1) is pretty sizeable evidence that Sunderland for example has the infrastructure to achieve success again with the right investment. While there are other variables, there is enough evidence there to say that on the balance of probabilities, most would find that a more attractive proposition than ourselves.

That’s not to accept we should finish below these clubs forever, of course not. But it is to say that it is unreasonable to judge failure based on our ability to outperform former established premier league football clubs, because unfortunately the biggest clubs with the best players will have the best chance of attracting the best players.

KR has got us to a position where by addressing squad balance issues partly of his own making, and partly driven by the inevitable exit of some of our best players in recent years transferring to other more attractive clubs, we can be very successful next season. As I indicated earlier in this thread, I believe we’re in a better position this summer than in previous years to address that issue. Hardly ‘accepting we’ll be minnows forever’.

 

[Osleroad]

I'm not sure a lot needs to change. As has been mentioned here a more balanced squad with a few less passengers, a bit more tactical flexibility and we could challenge for the play offs next season.

I read here a few people stating we are punching our weight and others stating we should be better. I think the most frustrating thing is we have the basis for a good team one capable of achieving more than it has this season, but a few silly mistakes like lack of cover, a few bad transfers, and assembling the squad too late stopped us from really pushing forwards this year. If Karl had been able to play our best players all season we would have been in the plays offs but that just doesn't happen and there was little quality cover when the inevitable injuries occurred. I think what annoys some is that a lot of this was foreseen by us before we even kicked a ball.

A good summer recruitment done quickly with fewer mistakes and we will be stronger (yes even if we have to sell a player).

I should think KR would be the first to agree about all the above remedies..defence cover of course was a must but we were struggling to get compatible players in. You can argue with what were our identifiable weaknesses..i.e. Long has almost achieved what we were looking for..an attacking back. Someone driving in midfield..we didn't expect Eastwood to become SO fragile but it was huge to replace with Jack and he has come good. Goalkeepers are a different decision on team make up week on week. It has taken Peterborough an age to get where they wanted and they have done well this year. Mapp has done very well but must likely face the play off lottery. We have all struggled along to make the best of our circumstances this year after all. And am just grateful to have football to watch.

 

[Brahma]

Are people serious we need a new left-back?

Our deficiencies are most certainly not in the full back positions. We may get competition in, we've got Hanson and Forde who deputies those roles too. I think we need strengthening elsewhere before we start to worry about Josh.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I think the most frustrating thing is we have the basis for a good team one capable of achieving more than it has this season, but a few silly mistakes like lack of cover, a few bad transfers, and assembling the squad too late stopped us from really pushing forwards this year. If Karl had been able to play our best players all season we would have been in the plays offs but that just doesn't happen and there was little quality cover when the inevitable injuries occurred. I think what annoys some is that a lot of this was foreseen by us before we even kicked a ball.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

Are people serious we need a new left-back?

Our deficiencies are most certainly not in the full back positions. We may get competition in, we've got Hanson and Forde who deputies those roles too. I think we need strengthening elsewhere before we start to worry about Josh.

We need LB cover. Whether that's through an incoming player or one of the youngsters to step up. We can't rely on Ruffels to be fit for the whole season.

 

[battman]

Are people serious we need a new left-back?

Our deficiencies are most certainly not in the full back positions. We may get competition in, we've got Hanson and Forde who deputies those roles too. I think we need strengthening elsewhere before we start to worry about Josh.

I don't think anyone has straight up said we need to replace Ruffs, but if you want to have a well-balanced squad that's built to run for 50 games in a season then you need more than one left back option. Sticking one of the right-footed Hanson or Forde there to 'do a job' isn't good enough if we want to get into the play-offs next season, especially if - god forbid - Ruffs picks up a lengthy injury. We may have deficiencies in other areas, but that doesn't mean we can't recruit in others too.

 

[Brahma]

We need LB cover. Whether that's through an incoming player or one of the youngsters to step up. We can't rely on Ruffels to be fit for the whole season.

We don't though. We have Anthony Forde. We have Sam Long. Both deputise at left-back. Jamie Hanson covers right back.

 

[Brahma]

I don't think anyone has straight up said we need to replace Ruffs, but if you want to have a well-balanced squad that's built to run for 50 games in a season then you need more than one left back option. Sticking one of the right-footed Hanson or Forde there to 'do a job' isn't good enough if we want to get into the play-offs next season, especially if - god forbid - Ruffs picks up a lengthy injury. We may have deficiencies in other areas, but that doesn't mean we can't recruit in others too.

Page 5, Devilsavocado.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Page 5, Devilsavocado.

We don't though. We have Anthony Forde. We have Sam Long. Both deputise at left-back. Jamie Hanson covers right back.

If you are setting up a team thats capable of promotion then Forde and Long as LB cover with Hanson at RB
cover is not the way that i would go about it.

Forde is ok as back up RB to Long but only because he is so useful in multiple positions and he needs a job
if he is going to be involved.

Hanson, sorry to say this but he just isnt good enough, too slow and too prone to making mistakes.

We need a new LB, if he is good enough to give Ruffels time on the bench that means that we have improved
our depth and thats how we are going to get out of this division imo.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

If you are setting up a team thats capable of promotion then Forde and Long as LB cover with Hanson at RB
cover is not the way that i would go about it.

Forde is ok as back up RB to Long but only because he is so useful in multiple positions and he needs a job
if he is going to be involved.

Hanson, sorry to say this but he just isnt good enough, too slow and too prone to making mistakes.

We need a new LB, if he is good enough to give Ruffels time on the bench that means that we have improved
our depth and thats how we are going to get out of this division imo.

I'd say the back 5 is good enough just the back up was the weak link.....McNally at Centre back , Elechi at left back as at 19/20 surely he can step up and another right back , possibly Forde but would prefer a young released actual right back .
Midfield is going to need a almost complete overhaul so I'd spend the big money there.

 

[werthersoriginal]

No. This is his third full season already. Every season we have been in and around the bottom four after 12+ games. Season one started with the 4-0 at Barnsley, last season was the 1-1 at Sunderland, this season was the 2-0 at Lincoln. He’s already had three; if we start really badly again next season it’s number four.

Oh god I’m losing track of time. Yeah that’s quite damning. But to be around the playoffs again is pretty good. So maybe the question is, do you have faith he can improve next season, or at least have a more sustained push - there’s always the chance of bad injuries and mad things, nothing is ever guaranteed.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Tbf Peterborough have been spent a fair few seasons to spend that money wisely! This year with Taylor (I think that is the name, ex-Barnet), Smozdics and JCH they definitely got it right this year though.

Yeah Peterborough have had the slowest meteoric rise in history. They’ve flattered to deceive far more than us. God knows what their fans forum has been like until recently.

 

[werthersoriginal]

I'm not sure a lot needs to change. As has been mentioned here a more balanced squad with a few less passengers, a bit more tactical flexibility and we could challenge for the play offs next season.

I read here a few people stating we are punching our weight and others stating we should be better. I think the most frustrating thing is we have the basis for a good team one capable of achieving more than it has this season, but a few silly mistakes like lack of cover, a few bad transfers, and assembling the squad too late stopped us from really pushing forwards this year. If Karl had been able to play our best players all season we would have been in the plays offs but that just doesn't happen and there was little quality cover when the inevitable injuries occurred. I think what annoys some is that a lot of this was foreseen by us before we even kicked a ball.

A good summer recruitment done quickly with fewer mistakes and we will be stronger (yes even if we have to sell a player).

It’s the chaotic recruitment and late assembly of squad that really annoys me. The ITK guys will know, is it down to Karl or are there other admin and business issues that hinder us signing our targets in good time?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I'd say the back 5 is good enough just the back up was the weak link.....McNally at Centre back , Elechi at left back as at 19/20 surely he can step up and another right back , possibly Forde but would prefer a young released actual right back .
Midfield is going to need a almost complete overhaul so I'd spend the big money there.

Touch and go with Forde, i`m not sold on him but he covers a lot of positions and is pretty decent with a dead ball
and thats useful, not my ideal RB but i`m compromising and at a pinch i think its a risk worth taking. That would be
the only compromise i would make at the back though.

If it was me, LB would probs be the first place i would fill, as the way i see it we have Ruffels and thats it, the others
are poor mens LB`s, thrown in because of circumstances and a real case of square pegs and round holes, not good
enough if we are serious about getting promotion.

Have no idea how Elechi is progressing, he might be ok but is he ok enough to hold the LB spot in a promotion
challenging L1 team if Ruffels gets injured ? No disrespect to the young man but if he had been tearing up trees
this season we would have heard about it, so at best it feels like a punt.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

But to be around the playoffs again is pretty good.

We would be firmly in them if we didn’t spend the entire opening quarter to every season in the relegation spots. Even a slightly below average start rather than an actively very bad one would have been the difference between an outside shot and being maybe one win away from preparing for a semi-final. Last season it would’ve meant automatic promotion instead of Rotherham - the sudden nature of the curtailment only serves to highlight the importance of not pissing the first dozen games up the wall as a matter of routine. You need to get the points on the board ASAP. You can’t constantly handicap yourself season after season. It’s like watching a runner who always falls over at the start of the race and ends up at the back of the pack, and then makes a dash for it and just misses out at the end. It’s all very exciting and lots of people cheer and clap, but it doesn’t change the fact that they’re empty handed purely because they can’t do something as simple as stop tripping over their own feet. Once or twice is bad luck; three or four times is a massive cock up.

This is why a number of people get pissed off - it’s completely preventable, and glorious defeat is still defeat. We get into positions to achieve something multiple times a season, and then we chuck it away or can’t sustain it because we put so much weight around our own necks that we don’t have enough in the tank to see it through. It’s all good and well people saying, “Well we would’ve been happy with that at the start of the season”, but things change. You’re supposed to adjust your goals based on your progress and the opportunities that present themselves. Lincoln have a mid-table budget, but if they didn’t finish in the top six at this point would they just shrug it off and say that 7th or 8th would’ve been fantastic in the summer, or would they say that they failed and badly threw it away? It’s all relative. There’s only so long that watching somebody fall over before narrowly missing out is exciting before people start to question why they can’t simply stand up.

We can’t have a fourth consecutive race where we don’t even make it to the first bend before we’re sprawled out on the track. Just stay in the pack for once and then we might actually be in danger of doing something.

 

[werthersoriginal]

We would be firmly in them if we didn’t spend the entire opening quarter to every season in the relegation spots. Even a slightly below average start rather than an actively very bad one would have been the difference between an outside shot and being maybe one win away from preparing for a semi-final. Last season it would’ve meant automatic promotion instead of Rotherham - the sudden nature of the curtailment only serves to highlight the importance of not pissing the first dozen games up the wall as a matter of routine. You need to get the points on the board ASAP. You can’t constantly handicap yourself season after season. It’s like watching a runner who always falls over at the start of the race and ends up at the back of the pack, and then makes a dash for it and just misses out at the end. It’s all very exciting and lots of people cheer and clap, but it doesn’t change the fact that they’re empty handed purely because they can’t do something as simple as stop tripping over their own feet. Once or twice is bad luck; three or four times is a massive cock up.

This is why a number of people get pissed off - it’s completely preventable, and glorious defeat is still defeat. We get into positions to achieve something multiple times a season, and then we chuck it away or can’t sustain it because we put so much weight around our own necks that we don’t have enough in the tank to see it through. It’s all good and well people saying, “Well we would’ve been happy with that at the start of the season”, but things change. You’re supposed to adjust your goals based on your progress and the opportunities that present themselves. Lincoln have a mid-table budget, but if they didn’t finish in the top six at this point would they just shrug it off and say that 7th or 8th would’ve been fantastic in the summer, or would they say that they failed and badly threw it away? It’s all relative. There’s only so long that watching somebody fall over before narrowly missing out is exciting before people start to question why they can’t simply stand up.

We can’t have a fourth consecutive race where we don’t even make it to the first bend before we’re sprawled out on the track. Just stay in the pack for once and then we might actually be in danger of doing something.

Yes of course this is true. Every team has the odd disaster like Northampton, but for us it means too much because we are trying to catch up on our bad start. But whose fault is it that we take so long to assemble a fit squad? Is it all down to Karl? Genuinely not sure