Chairman Done Deal - New owner is Tiger

[Notaswindonfan]

Finally joined OxVon, I wanted to be in the know and part of a confidential group of people who give the Masons a good run for their money ?.

 

[Yellowoptimist]

There appears to be a common theme here with Charlie and Co

Charlie & Associates make a bid to buy the club from IL but it is sold to DE who is the anti-christ.
Charlies Associate, Satori, makes a bid to buy the club from DE but it is sold to Tiger who is the anti-christ.

This all comes across as a little bitter to me.

If Tiger does as well as DE despite his Asset stripping (ahem.. lol) then that'd be bloody fantastic as we'll at least get another promotion and see some decent talent play for our mighty football club.

It would also appear that according to Charlie both of those associates have been good guys from which I can only assume that the reason they weren't given the time of day was because of their association with Charlie!?

 

[OUFCGav]

I might see if the maxwells will sell me some of theirs, might be able to take at least £10 of the £1 ones

That is of course a nominal value, what you buy them for depends on what the seller values them at. Think there are somewhere around 500 shareholders, some 80 or so of which are listed as deceased.
I would most certainly like some if anyone wants to sell.

 

[Marked Ox]

My guess is that Eales is keeping shares as insurance against a further sell on at a profit by Tiger, and also to protect any deferred payment for his own debt.

The interesting question though is what is happening to all of the debt owed to Ensco, including the 'ported debt' from WPL.

As well as Myles's question about the Ox City joint venture with Ensco (rather than OUFC). If Tiger is buying OUFC shares from Ensco, does Ensco remain in the JV - and does it benefit Ensco to be in a joint venture when it no longer has direct control over what OUFC does with Ox City?

The tie up with Oxford City and whether that changes would be a good question for the fans forum.

 

[makv]

Just how rich is Tiger?

Perhaps he wants to link in with the "Oxford factor". Known worldwide. Who, abroad, has heard of Swindon or Reading? And, whats more, why would they?

Where?

 

[Colin B]

For those of you asking the question regarding OxVox's meetings with Tiger, yes of course he was asked various questions, and notes were taken at the time. These notes will be sent to members shortly, now that the deal has been concluded, and all should become clearer.

 

[Paul P]

For those of you asking the question regarding OxVox's meetings with Tiger, yes of course he was asked various questions, and notes were taken at the time. These notes will be sent to members shortly, now that the deal has been concluded, and all should become clearer.

Are we allowed to speak about them afterwards or is Jem wandering the halls of the masonic lodge (the Mason's Arms) with a red hot poker, laughing maniacally and threatening to 'reeducate' anyone who breaks the code of silence??

 

[Lundinsponytail]

There appears to be a common theme here with Charlie and Co

Charlie & Associates make a bid to buy the club from IL but it is sold to DE who is the anti-christ.
Charlies Associate, Satori, makes a bid to buy the club from DE but it is sold to Tiger who is the anti-christ.

This all comes across as a little bitter to me.

If Tiger does as well as DE despite his Asset stripping (ahem.. lol) then that'd be bloody fantastic as we'll at least get another promotion and see some decent talent play for our mighty football club.

I can see why you say that, but I don't think that it is a fair characterisation. I have been questioning of ALL new owners of the club, from Kassam onwards (maybe even back to Tim Midgeley!). That included Nick Merry, and the then shadowy Ian Lenagan, and now includes Tiger.

I have to admit, I was aggressive about Kassam because - unlike other supporters, bar Rosenthal - I could see all too clearly what he was doing. But the rest of it has been gentle scepticism, not some shouty denunciation. When little Dave made the same accusation earlier, I asked him to find the posts I had made against Darryl and he apologised and said that he had made a mistake. I hadn't.

My "associates' in trying to buy the club were Donald, the first time around. The second time I was only peripherally involved by introducing Donald to Sartori. I had no financial dog in that fight - they're both far too rich for me.

Am I bitter that Stewart and Juan don't own the club? No. Wrong word. I am disappointed, because I know them to be two decent, very wealthy, passionate football guys who had a good plan. Honestly, if Tiger has likewise then I will be delighted (as will Stewart). But one would have to be a pretty seriously lobotomised individual not to raise a quiet hand at the back of the class when an individual who extracted cash from Reading FC whilst claiming he couldn't afford to run it then pitches up on our doorstep.

And that is what it is. I've seen nothing to suggest that Tiger isn't a nice guy, or that he has any machiavellian plan. But nor, yet, have I seen any well-funded positive plan. So judgement will have to be suspended until that comes along. Of course, it goes without saying that he could have a great plan, and fund it munificently, and it could still go wrong. That's football, isn't it?

 

[Lundinsponytail]

It would also appear that according to Charlie both of those associates have been good guys from which I can only assume that the reason they weren't given the time of day was because of their association with Charlie!?

Or, more accurately, because someone else offered £1.5 million more cash.

Which, clearly, is what DE meant when he said that it was all about the "good of the club"!

 

[Deleted member 291]

Always have to have a snipe at someone even if you're talking sensibly.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

Tha

Don't think Eales took any salary/bonus/dividends.

So the only way Eales hasn't "lost" his investment / debt is if someone comes along and agrees to repay it, or the club finds some way of repaying the debt, but with all decent player sales gone, the latter seems remote.

That's not the way it works. His original purchase of the club was immediately framed as 'debt' of 4 million. He then 'invested' a further 4.6 million in shoring up the losses in the first two seasons. So at that point, his 'investment' - all framed as debt - was 8.6 million.
Then, last season the club made a profit of circa 500k. There were then net incomings AFTER that profitable season of circa 4 million. DE could have (accounts will reveal) simply paid 3 million of that out to himself as debt repayment, leaving (as he said publicly) enough in the kitty to run the club for the season ahead. So his total investment, pre sale to Tiger, was circa 4 to 4.5 million.
The deal with Tiger apparently priced the club at 6.5 million (one million more than Portsmouth plus Fratton) so DE has probably got 1 million or so profit out of his time here and been left with a remaining 15 per cent or so on top of that so that he can make some more if Tiger plays a blinder. Furthermore, because of the ported debt he bought off Lenagan for 1 quid he won't have to pay capital gains tax on any of it.
Hardly a massive windfall, but good none the less that he exits as one of the few lower league club owners ever to be able to say: 'I made money out of football.'
IL lost 2.5 million running the club and Firoz 2 million (Though that pales beside the 30 million he has already made) and God knows what Herd lost.
If DE really played hard in the negotiation, who knows: maybe he even demanded a chunk of the remaining Marvin Johnson money due in this summer!

 

[Manorlounger]

To coin a phrase....Good grief!

 

[The mighty Aldo]

I still think that when Mr Eales said he would sell " in the best interests of OUFC"

He really meant in the best interests of Darryl Eales

 

[Lundinsponytail]

My take is he was not the owner at plastic FC and just a shareholder.

As the owner of OUFC he will need to make a success of the club as he will be the one losing money.

The buck stops with him now.

So 'shareholders' don't make or lose money when the company they own does well or badly? You need to join Corbyns economics team.
When a business is losing money, the shareholders pay what the losses are in proportion to their holding. If they do not then their shares are diluted.
Similarly, when a company makes money, it pays a dividend, again in proportion to the shareholding.

 

[carefreeoufc]

There are a lot of phrases in there that are very methvenisums. U either share the same dictionary and view point or u were separated at birth. I mean what are the odds on two people being so against Oxvox and tigers reputation, while still using terms like- freely researchable on the Internet, protagonists and money launderers

I actually with Myles and Charlie on this. I’ve said it before and I don’t believe (in the way I see a supporters group) that OxVox acts in any way other than accepting what is done.

I accept it may damage relationships and the opportunity to get information or speak to those at the club but I want someone writing in the press saying “we want to know what’s going on”, “the lack of communication from the club is unacceptable”, “season tickets were increased for a top six budget yet we haven’t seen this”, “It’s great you’ve sold to Tiger DE but what do we know about his plans”.

Maybe I’m a bit misguided but I always assumed groups were there to ask the difficult and probing questions and call the owners to account. I don’t feel this has been done for a long time.

May I add I do respect the work OxVox has done on a number of things. Including stuff I’ve directly benefited from when doing the flags a number of years ago.

 

[MarkG]

Tha

Don't think Eales took any salary/bonus/dividends.

So the only way Eales hasn't "lost" his investment / debt is if someone comes along and agrees to repay it, or the club finds some way of repaying the debt, but with all decent player sales gone, the latter seems remote.

That's not the way it works. His original purchase of the club was immediately framed as 'debt' of 4 million. He then 'invested' a further 4.6 million in shoring up the losses in the first two seasons. So at that point, his 'investment' - all framed as debt - was 8.6 million.
Then, last season the club made a profit of circa 500k. There were then net incomings AFTER that profitable season of circa 4 million. DE could have (accounts will reveal) simply paid 3 million of that out to himself as debt repayment, leaving (as he said publicly) enough in the kitty to run the club for the season ahead. So his total investment, pre sale to Tiger, was circa 4 to 4.5 million.
The deal with Tiger apparently priced the club at 6.5 million (one million more than Portsmouth plus Fratton) so DE has probably got 1 million or so profit out of his time here and been left with a remaining 15 per cent or so on top of that so that he can make some more if Tiger plays a blinder. Furthermore, because of the ported debt he bought off Lenagan for 1 quid he won't have to pay capital gains tax on any of it.
Hardly a massive windfall, but good none the less that he exits as one of the few lower league club owners ever to be able to say: 'I made money out of football.'
IL lost 2.5 million running the club and Firoz 2 million (Though that pales beside the 30 million he has already made) and God knows what Herd lost.
If DE really played hard in the negotiation, who knows: maybe he even demanded a chunk of the remaining Marvin Johnson money due in this summer!

Finally getting some sensible numbers. Your earlier post suggested he’d somehow had £10 million out of the Club which the average non-accountant might take to mean he’d made that as profit on players and selling the club. Once you take off what he put in it’s all a bit more mediocre, but not a bad return for any owner to make a profit.


Also Lenagan I thought had lost £4 million. He paid off Kassam about £2M, invested another £6M to get to £8M and then got £4M back if the Eales figures stack up.

Kassam didn’t lose £2M on the football club either. WPL paid off his debt when they took over if I recall ( or rather they put money into the club to repay the debt) leaving him clear.

 

[Deleted member 462]

There are a lot of phrases in there that are very methvenisums. U either share the same dictionary and view point or u were separated at birth. I mean what are the odds on two people being so against Oxvox and tigers reputation, while still using terms like- freely researchable on the Internet, protagonists and money launderers

I actually with Myles and Charlie on this. I’ve said it before and I don’t believe (in the way I see a supporters group) that OxVox acts in any way other than accepting what is done.

I accept it may damage relationships and the opportunity to get information or speak to those at the club but I want someone writing in the press saying “we want to know what’s going on”, “the lack of communication from the club is unacceptable”, “season tickets were increased for a top six budget yet we haven’t seen this”, “It’s great you’ve sold to Tiger DE but what do we know about his plans”.

Maybe I’m a bit misguided but I always assumed groups were there to ask the difficult and probing questions and call the owners to account. I don’t feel this has been done for a long time.

May I add I do respect the work OxVox has done on a number of things. Including stuff I’ve directly benefited from when doing the flags a number of years ago.

U must have missed Colin’s post earlier which says all info is due to go out to members next week? U don’t think it might be a bit professional to let the man announce his own plan? Rather than just blurting it out at the first opportunity? That would look great at the press conference wouldn’t it, I’d like to present my new manager- we know Oxvox already told us . Oh ok well my aim is - we know they told us that as well.

The main point is they were there, they asked the questions, as they did with sartori. Details of which haven’t been published either. And I’m sure that if the answers to those questions from either party had not been satisfactory then they would have done something about it. We elect them to act on our behalf.

 

[Jason N]

I can see why you say that, but I don't think that it is a fair characterisation. I have been questioning of ALL new owners of the club, from Kassam onwards (maybe even back to Tim Midgeley!). That included Nick Merry, and the then shadowy Ian Lenagan, and now includes Tiger.

I have to admit, I was aggressive about Kassam because - unlike other supporters, bar Rosenthal - I could see all too clearly what he was doing. But the rest of it has been gentle scepticism, not some shouty denunciation. When little Dave made the same accusation earlier, I asked him to find the posts I had made against Darryl and he apologised and said that he had made a mistake. I hadn't.

My "associates' in trying to buy the club were Donald, the first time around. The second time I was only peripherally involved by introducing Donald to Sartori. I had no financial dog in that fight - they're both far too rich for me.

Am I bitter that Stewart and Juan don't own the club? No. Wrong word. I am disappointed, because I know them to be two decent, very wealthy, passionate football guys who had a good plan. Honestly, if Tiger has likewise then I will be delighted (as will Stewart). But one would have to be a pretty seriously lobotomised individual not to raise a quiet hand at the back of the class when an individual who extracted cash from Reading FC whilst claiming he couldn't afford to run it then pitches up on our doorstep.

And that is what it is. I've seen nothing to suggest that Tiger isn't a nice guy, or that he has any machiavellian plan. But nor, yet, have I seen any well-funded positive plan. So judgement will have to be suspended until that comes along. Of course, it goes without saying that he could have a great plan, and fund it munificently, and it could still go wrong. That's football, isn't it?

Fair comments. You were right about Kassam and I admit I was fooled for a number of years. I only cottoned on around the time that he binned his mate JMG and Diaz.

Ian Lenagan was relatively successful in that he managed to bring in Wilder and get us promoted back into the football league. He did also implement the idea of a development squad of young players which we should have been carried forward. IL was let down by Nick Merry and also by Kelvin Thomas who both spunked away his cash.

Darryl has been successful but you seem very critical of him as a person as well his abilities as Chairman. Basically implying that his only success was the recruitment plan which was implemented by Mark Ashton. A recruitment policy which was only setup to line Darryl's pockets.

As you say, only time will tell if Tiger is going to be good for Oxford United.

Bitter may have been the wrong word and I appreciate the calm response to my criticism. You do come across as an arrogant a**e when responding the likes of Dave T and LondonRoader, which is pretty much 90% of your posts.

 

[Oufcad30]

Finally joined OxVon, I wanted to be in the know and part of a confidential group of people who give the Masons a good run for their money ?.

I've signed up too!!

 

[stokeu]

So 'shareholders' don't make or lose money when the company they own does well or badly? You need to join Corbyns economics team.
When a business is losing money, the shareholders pay what the losses are in proportion to their holding. If they do not then their shares are diluted.
Similarly, when a company makes money, it pays a dividend, again in proportion to the shareholding.

Maybe you should go and join Corbyn's team as you are clearly as clueless as them about Corporate finance. Shareholders do not pay pay losses in proportion to their holding, there is no financial commitment for normal shareholders after their initial outlay. There are many Companies making losses that still pay a dividend to shareholders, some of the biggest in the FTSE can be included in this and are seen as good investments based on their dividend payments.