General Club/Player Mentality

[MustardYellow]

So what you're saying is that having a healthy dose of perspective is a bad thing, and online toxicity is a good thing? Right.

But what would happen if all 24 League One clubs had 'ruthless' fans? Would that mean all 24 teams would be promoted every year because there's a direct correlation between fans being asshats and that pressure making the players perform better? I think your plan may break the league system as we know it.

The idea we should just be happy with what we get because things could be worse is quite a weak mentality to have when you're in competitive sport.

My point was, in the last few years we've had 2 opportunities to win cup finals at Wembley, 2 opportunities in the play-offs (and should've made them in another season), and we fell short in all of them. Put other clubs in those situations and that's deemed as failure and not good enough - after each of those events there would be a demand that the club pushes on. We don't really have that? If we fall short it's just sort of 'oh well'.

I don't think we're a club with a 'winners mentality'.

 

[Mojofilter]

So what you're saying is that having a healthy dose of perspective is a bad thing, and online toxicity is a good thing? Right.

But what would happen if all 24 League One clubs had 'ruthless' fans? Would that mean all 24 teams would be promoted every year because there's a direct correlation between fans being asshats and that pressure making the players perform better? I think your plan may break the league system as we know it.

Please, this isn't the USA, we call them C***s here

 

[MustardYellow]

It certainly holds us back when we have no alternative. Barnsley and Derby games were prime examples, we played some nice football against Derby but ended up crumbling to relentless long balls and crosses coming at us. Derby know they can play better, prettier football than that but they went for the most effective to overturn the deficit.

Barnsley play some great football but in those conditions used the long throw on almost every throw in they had in our half, loaded the box kept us in there winning the second ball from clearances. We have a long throw specialist and didn't use it once, we should have used it anyway and waited for the clearances to fall for us but we opted not to use it all together because it's a squad peppered with small weak players who would never win the header.

Naivety and unable to mix things up means we'll be behind the sides who can do both. Last time I checked that's where we are now, and struggling to beat those sides in the top 6.

Barnsley also did the nasty stuff well. Wasting time, taking time getting up/injuries, hassling/niggling at our players at every opportunity, winning cheap free kicks. We don't do those things, even when holding on to a slender lead. Rarely do you see our players actually try do to anything about it either - we just stand back and allow opposition teams to time waste. Why does no one hassle the referee? Every other team does it.

We just seem very soft in my opinion and have done for years.

 

[SteMerritt]

If I wanted to see my team hassling the referee, doing niggly fouls, winning cheap free-kicks, winding up opposition players, then I would go and watch Wycombe. You can win games of football without resorting to this, if you get your tactics right.

 

[werthersoriginal]

The idea we should just be happy with what we get because things could be worse is quite a weak mentality to have when you're in competitive sport.

My point was, in the last few years we've had 2 opportunities to win cup finals at Wembley, 2 opportunities in the play-offs (and should've made them in another season), and we fell short in all of them. Put other clubs in those situations and that's deemed as failure and not good enough - after each of those events there would be a demand that the club pushes on. We don't really have that? If we fall short it's just sort of 'oh well'.

I don't think we're a club with a 'winners mentality'.

Oh well!

 

[MustardYellow]

If I wanted to see my team hassling the referee, doing niggly fouls, winning cheap free-kicks, winding up opposition players, then I would go and watch Wycombe. You can win games of football without resorting to this, if you get your tactics right.

If doing that meant we held on for a point (or maybe even won) against Derby, would you still not agree with it?

We see it being done to us all the time, and it often works - why wouldn't we if it makes us more likely to win games?

 

[SteMerritt]

If doing that meant we held on for a point (or maybe even won) against Derby, would you still not agree with it?

We see it being done to us all the time, and it often works - why wouldn't we if it makes us more likely to win games?

Teams don't HAVE to do that. You can manage games without resorting to pettiness. What's to say that breaking up the game would have made any difference to the game against Derby? I've seen teams try to hang on against us many times in the past by doing that sort of thing and not manage it. Do you have any actual stats that show employing the 'dark arts' win more points than they lose?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

What concerns me is Des is from the CFG. And the mentality of the flagship CFG team Manchester City is to pass teams to death. Might work in the Premier League when the United Arab Emirates can buy you whichever player you require, but much harder to make work in League One.

Obviously I'm aware Desmond is realistic enough to not try and play exactly like Manchester City, but I question whether what he's learnt is going to translate well into third division football. I was really struck by how bored I was watching the Barnsley game, I know the conditions didn't help but it was an absolute snoozefest. On a recent thread some posters questioned whether modern football is just boring and it was hard to disagree watching that.

WuTang is the poster I agree with most on here about football, and the word "naive" sums it up for me with Oxford United so often. The ultimate example to me for this was Northampton away, when O'Donker needlessly clattered someone, giving them a last minute set piece they scored from.

As more players get back fit it's going to be harder and harder to make excuses.

I'm starting to think Manning was maybe a better manager than I credited him for, but I want Des to work for several reasons:

1) I can't help buying into the romanticism (is that a word?!) of having an Oxford boy in charge
2) The club spent a lot of money to get him and that makes it more gut-wrenching if it doesn't work.
3) I like the idea of stability. I don't want to become like Charlton chopping and changing managers every 20 games.

 

[Eric Blair]

What concerns me is Des is from the CFG. And the mentality of the flagship CFG team Manchester City is to pass teams to death. Might work in the Premier League when the United Arab Emirates can buy you whichever player you require, but much harder to make work in League One.

Obviously I'm aware Desmond is realistic enough to not try and play exactly like Manchester City, but I question whether what he's learnt is going to translate well into third division football. I was really struck by how bored I was watching the Barnsley game, I know the conditions didn't help but it was an absolute snoozefest. On a recent thread some posters questioned whether modern football is just boring and it was hard to disagree watching that.

WuTang is the poster I agree with most on here about football, and the word "naive" sums it up for me with Oxford United so often. The ultimate example to me for this was Northampton away, when O'Donker needlessly clattered someone, giving them a last minute set piece they scored from.

As more players get back fit it's going to be harder and harder to make excuses.

I'm starting to think Manning was maybe a better manager than I credited him for, but I want Des to work for several reasons:

1) I can't help buying into the romanticism (is that a word?!) of having an Oxford boy in charge
2) The club spent a lot of money to get him and that makes it more gut-wrenching if it doesn't work.
3) I like the idea of stability. I don't want to become like Charlton chopping and changing managers every 20 games.

I agree that @WuTang is a good poster. I go back to patience though. Three windows were needed to repair some of the damage done by KR. That takes time. I think Des has the know-how and the brains to get it right. He needs the players. We have a good squad that is getting better but it takes time. Relegation candidates to top six in nine months is pretty astonishing.

That said there are some areas that trouble me. I don't really understand the drop off of form for Ruben and Marcus (Marcus was world beating for the first few games - Cambridge Utd to one side) and right back is still a worry for me (sorry Sam).

 

[Steve Gilbert]

People on this forum who demand everyone is the same type of fan are exhausting. Kips/Mustards balance out your relentlessly positive posters like Egg and Steve Gilbert. People need to get over it. "moaners blah blah blah"

Its a forum with diverse views.

Oi, don’t drag me into this

Especially when I feel I have been very critical of the club of late

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Oi, don’t drag me into this

Especially when I feel I have been very critical of the club of late

You're a vital part of the forum biosphere Steve

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I watched the majority of the Pep documentary last night and it was interesting to note that at virtually every club he managed, they started poorly with many fans expressing frustration and a general air of wtf is he playing at??...before it all clicked into place and the right personnel to play the desired way were brought in with the right support staff to make it happen.
It happened at Barca, Bayern and Man City.

OK, this is only League 1 and we're only little Oxford....and we've only got a limited supply of League 1 standard players to call on, but just goes to prove that everyone thinks genius is crazy before they realise it's genius,

 

[greatunclekip]

I agree that @WuTang is a good poster. I go back to patience though. Three windows were needed to repair some of the damage done by KR. That takes time. I think Des has the know-how and the brains to get it right. He needs the players. We have a good squad that is getting better but it takes time. Relegation candidates to top six in nine months is pretty astonishing.

That said there are some areas that trouble me. I don't really understand the drop off of form for Ruben and Marcus (Marcus was world beating for the first few games - Cambridge Utd to one side) and right back is still a worry for me (sorry Sam).

It's very simple. They dont have a clue what their role is. Ruben in particular looks completely lost.

 

[frenchconnection]

Sadly..genius or crazy...I am beginning to think des won't cut it....I seriously hope I'm wrong but hand on heart I think not

 

[Eric Blair]

It's very simple. They dont have a clue what their role is. Ruben in particular looks completely lost.

You can see he is getting frustrated and giving the ref lip.

That said, I cant see that his role has changed that much. Has he been told to sit back more do you think?

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Being asked to play one way, and now another from one season to the next is difficult enough, but being asked to do that within the space of 4 months and with not everything in place to make it work is nigh on impossible.

Even when Manning was here, nobody was really expecting much out of this season (seriously...were they?) given the scale of rebuild required. I feel that he start of the season would've been a pleasant surprise to just about everyone, probably Manning included!

Robinson and Appleton were afforded way more leeway than this at the start of their tenure.... what's the difference?

 

[MustardYellow]

Teams don't HAVE to do that. You can manage games without resorting to pettiness. What's to say that breaking up the game would have made any difference to the game against Derby? I've seen teams try to hang on against us many times in the past by doing that sort of thing and not manage it. Do you have any actual stats that show employing the 'dark arts' win more points than they lose?

I'm not saying we have to do it at all times, but in cases where it would increase our likelihood of winning the game then why wouldn't we?

We conceded two of the goals vs Derby after 80 minutes - we should've been completely 'shut up shop' by then. Logically speaking, the less amount of time the ball is in play, the lesser amount of time the opposition has to score a goal. As I say, we've seen that work wonders for Wycombe under Ainsworth.

 

[SteMerritt]

I'm not saying we have to do it at all times, but in cases where it would increase our likelihood of winning the game then why wouldn't we?

We conceded two of the goals vs Derby after 80 minutes - we should've been completely 'shut up shop' by then. Logically speaking, the less amount of time the ball is in play, the lesser amount of time the opposition has to score a goal. As I say, we've seen that work wonders for Wycombe under Ainsworth.

It's not a long-term tactic that brings results, as we also witnessed with Wycombe under Ainsworth. We need to be less naive in our play for sure, but turning into a niggly anti-football side isn't the way to do it.

And as I said, you have no idea if 'shutting up shop' would have made any difference whatsoever.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I mean....it's almost as if a team can "shut up shop" at will, just like I presume they should just "score a goal" at will too. It completely disregards the opposition and their relative effective/ineffectiveness against us (as does quite a bit of the analysis/criticism of Oxford performances on here at times). It's almost like the opposition are some CPU driven algorithm in a game and all we need to do is change the way we play and it will all work out in our favour

Citing the Derby match as an example, we were hanging on from about 30 minutes in and the tide was always turning. We had players literally out on their feet and practically nothing on the bench to counter the increasing threat from Derby. To suddenly pause the game, go into settings>tactics>shut up shop, isn't really that realistic imho. And those teams that do shut up shop as @SteMerritt points out tend to be the anti-football types who recruit and set up with that particular system in mind and practice that very thing week in, week out - they don't just turn it on.

So, may be the mentality around the club/ground/supporters needs to be based a bit more on realism

 

[Joey]

What concerns me is Des is from the CFG. And the mentality of the flagship CFG team Manchester City is to pass teams to death. Might work in the Premier League when the United Arab Emirates can buy you whichever player you require, but much harder to make work in League One.

Just to pick up on this point I don't think it holds much water. Man City obviously play at an incredibly high level technically but arguably their most important player is a 6ft 3 midfielder, they're always near the top of the league for goals scored from set pieces and near the bottom for conceded (helped by dominating possession of course) and there is often chat about how well they use tactical fouls when they lose possession high up the pitch. They know how to manage a game, they just don't have to that often because they're often out of sight.

I'm of the opinion that we need to be more streetwise for sure and that's been a problem for years now since the Appleton promotion team. Some posters will take that to the extreme and say they don't want to watch Wycombe but that's an exaggeration, we had players like MacDonald, Hylton and Maguire who knew how to manage a game, make a foul when needed, buy a free kick themselves without being particularly dirty. I always remember a game against Exeter around New Year, Dunkley had already been booked and then took out Ollie Watkins by the touchline just before half time. Clear as day yellow card, maybe even a red now, but before anything could happen MacDonald had sprinted over and pushed one of their lads over, a big shoving match started with four players being booked while Dunkley slunk off away from things. Got subbed at half time and we went on to win the game. I don't want that sort of thing to be the cornerstone of how we play but I'd like it to be a feature.