General Club/Player Mentality

[MustardYellow]

I've felt for a while that our squads always seem considerably weaker than other teams. Other teams have bite and aggression, they manipulate rules to their benefit and take advantage of poor refereeing (time wasting, feigning injuries etc). They surround referees, shout for every decision etc - I rarely see us do this. We're too nice, we don't seem to have that fight.

My question is, is this down to the mentality of the club as a whole, or simply a consequence of squad building?

In my view, we are a very forgiving fanbase. It takes an awful lot for the fans to turn. Even when things were at their worst under KR, I wouldn't say things ever got truly bad beyond posts on social media - a bit of booing in the stadium was about as far as it went beyond that. I compare that to other clubs like Ipswich, for example. Their fans are absolutely ruthless and demand the best. Imagine their reaction if they had our 2 playoff seasons under KR? They'd be calling for heads! But our fans? We quickly accepted what was ultimately a failure and move on.

Some will say it's too much, but isn't that the mentality you need to succeed long term? I regularly see our fans talk about how they'd be 'happy with a draw' or 'take a point' - being fine with not winning isn't the mentality of a group who will go on to achieve success. A club's culture/mentality is often driven by fans and the expectation of fans.

We all keep saying our aim should be promotion, but just shrug our shoulders when we don't achieve it.

In my view, there's very little pressure from anywhere on the squad achieving/succeeding, and I think this is reflected in how our teams over recent years behave on the pitch. We're missing that 'edge'.

Would be interested to hear others thoughts. Do people agree that we, as a club, lack that cutting edge?

 

[LeftSideLarry]

You’ve never once said anything positive about any aspect of our club. Now it’s the fans.

Ignore button pressed.

 

[MustardYellow]

You’ve never once said anything positive about any aspect of our club. Now it’s the fans.

Ignore button pressed.

Literally all of your replies are boring. You spend all day accusing of others being negative, making awful attempts at sarcasm, or just generally being hostile.

Your childish input won't be missed

 

[greatunclekip]

We have a lot of happy clappers. Who think all is fine because we aren't playing Histon. Who love a bit of nice passing and clap like seals at 5 passes along the backline even if it ends up with the keeper.

And anyone who dares constructive criticism of our transfer "efforts," or shite performances, is called negative, a troll, and told to Sod off to South London.

It's a very bizarre mindset, and yes, does let people get away with incompetence.

 

[MustardYellow]

We have a lot of happy clappers. Who think all is fine because we aren't playing Histon. Who love a bit of nice passing and clap like seals at 5 passes along the backline even if it ends up with the keeper.

And anyone who dares constructive criticism of our transfer "efforts," or shite performances, is called negative, a troll, and told to Sod off to South London.

It's a very bizarre mindset, and yes, does let people get away with incompetence.

You've just described LeftSideLarry perfectly

You're spot on though, a lot of people seem to think because we aren't in the 7th tier and about to go bust that we should be happy with whatever we're given.

 

[isibuko]

my god

 

[Older Shotts]

my god

on a velocipede?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

You’ve never once said anything positive about any aspect of our club. Now it’s the fans.

Ignore button pressed.

People on this forum who demand everyone is the same type of fan are exhausting. Kips/Mustards balance out your relentlessly positive posters like Egg and Steve Gilbert. People need to get over it. "moaners blah blah blah"

Its a forum with diverse views.

 

[MustardYellow]

People on this forum who demand everyone is the same type of fan are exhausting. Kips/Mustards balance out your relentlessly positive posters like Egg and Steve Gilbert. People need to get over it. "moaners blah blah blah"

Its a forum with diverse views.

Heaven forbid people have different views!

 

[WuTang]

I enjoy the fact we're a club who try to play the right way and certainly don't want that to change. However I'm frustrated when the squad building repeatedly fails to recruit players that offer a plan B. We always plump for technical ball players in every position who are all physically weak and often actually quite short and lack aggression.

We need some big lumps in every position other than the wings. We need a big target man or two upfront, we need some big defensive minded central midfielders and the same in defence. I think Greg Leigh has added a bit of that at left back, Goodwin might offer more of that up top, we have nothing in central midfield though. Cam has the aggression but we know he's far too good to be doing that work for 90 minutes.

Sounds basic but look at most of the teams who have been promoted and they all have that plan B. You can play the right way as plan A but some games just need you to play more direct, stick the ball up top, get crosses into the box etc. We can't do any of that, if plan A isn't working we've lost.

 

[Leysboy]

I enjoy the fact we're a club who try to play the right way and certainly don't want that to change. However I'm frustrated when the squad building repeatedly fails to recruit players that offer a plan B. We always plump for technical ball players in every position who are all physically weak and often actually quite short and lack aggression.

We need some big lumps in every position other than the wings. We need a big target man or two upfront, we need some big defensive minded central midfielders and the same in defence. I think Greg Leigh has added a bit of that at left back, Goodwin might offer more of that up top, we have nothing in central midfield though. Cam has the aggression but we know he's far too good to be doing that work for 90 minutes.

Sounds basic but look at most of the teams who have been promoted and they all have that plan B. You can play the right way as plan A but some games just need you to play more direct, stick the ball up top, get crosses into the box etc. We can't do any of that, if plan A isn't working we've lost.

Agree with that.

We are too soft at times too, and often get rolled over and have our tummies tickled. We need a couple of robust players, that get stuck in early, and it tells the opposition we ain’t fooling around.

Whilst passing it sideways and backwards knocks the possession stat up a notch, it’s the goals column that the most important. We need to be a bit more direct in our approach, and get balls into the box quicker. Creating chances more often will lead to mistakes, after all it’s Lge 1, not the Premier Lge.

One more thing, bloody shoot from 18 yards, as it is allowed. More often than not, we are trying to score the perfect goal. We aren’t Liverpool or Manchester City. Goalies at this level will sometimes make mistakes ie Eastwood. So ffs shoot on sight at times, because it might just create a goal.

 

[LeftSideLarry]

People on this forum who demand everyone is the same type of fan are exhausting. Kips/Mustards balance out your relentlessly positive posters like Egg and Steve Gilbert. People need to get over it. "moaners blah blah blah"

Its a forum with diverse views.

I’m not advocating for common thought. I welcome debate.

Even Kip commends the club, albeit rarely. I find the persistent and exclusive negativity and criticism by MY as exhausting as you find my thoughts on his/her input.

It is interesting that you’ve chosen my post to show your intolerance, while advocating for breadth of thought.

 

[Osei Yaw]

I enjoy the fact we're a club who try to play the right way and certainly don't want that to change. However I'm frustrated when the squad building repeatedly fails to recruit players that offer a plan B. We always plump for technical ball players in every position who are all physically weak and often actually quite short and lack aggression.

We need some big lumps in every position other than the wings. We need a big target man or two upfront, we need some big defensive minded central midfielders and the same in defence. I think Greg Leigh has added a bit of that at left back, Goodwin might offer more of that up top, we have nothing in central midfield though. Cam has the aggression but we know he's far too good to be doing that work for 90 minutes.

Sounds basic but look at most of the teams who have been promoted and they all have that plan B. You can play the right way as plan A but some games just need you to play more direct, stick the ball up top, get crosses into the box etc. We can't do any of that, if plan A isn't working we've lost.

Agree with that.

Hopefully Goodwin is the start of Plan B. I don't think we've had a physical presence up top since Ryan Taylor left. Robinson carries the responsibility for a hell of a lot of that and the less said about his recruitment, the better.

Both Des and Ed seem to be switched on, although my fear is what we'll be able to get through in time for the end of this window Vs what we really need, especially with Tim 'overseeing' things.

 

[notThisWayButThat]

We need some big lumps in every position other than the wings. We need a big target man or two upfront, we need some big defensive minded central midfielders and the same in defence. I think Greg Leigh has added a bit of that at left back, Goodwin might offer more of that up top, we have nothing in central midfield though. Cam has the aggression but we know he's far too good to be doing that work for 90 minutes.

Sounds basic but look at most of the teams who have been promoted and they all have that plan B. You can play the right way as plan A but some games just need you to play more direct, stick the ball up top, get crosses into the box etc. We can't do any of that, if plan A isn't working we've lost.

only one man for the job

 

[m]

Lip up Ade.

 

[Joey]

One more thing, bloody shoot from 18 yards, as it is allowed. More often than not, we are trying to score the perfect goal. We aren’t Liverpool or Manchester City. Goalies at this level will sometimes make mistakes ie Eastwood. So ffs shoot on sight at times, because it might just create a goal.

Agree that we need to be more direct but this is just wrong, no team has scored more goals from outside the box than we have this season. We've been incredibly successful taking pot shots which is a big part of the reason people were concerned out goal scoring wasn't sustainable.

 

[MustardYellow]

I enjoy the fact we're a club who try to play the right way and certainly don't want that to change. However I'm frustrated when the squad building repeatedly fails to recruit players that offer a plan B. We always plump for technical ball players in every position who are all physically weak and often actually quite short and lack aggression.

We need some big lumps in every position other than the wings. We need a big target man or two upfront, we need some big defensive minded central midfielders and the same in defence. I think Greg Leigh has added a bit of that at left back, Goodwin might offer more of that up top, we have nothing in central midfield though. Cam has the aggression but we know he's far too good to be doing that work for 90 minutes.

Sounds basic but look at most of the teams who have been promoted and they all have that plan B. You can play the right way as plan A but some games just need you to play more direct, stick the ball up top, get crosses into the box etc. We can't do any of that, if plan A isn't working we've lost.

Is playing the 'right way' holding us back, though? I think of Wycombe in the season they got promoted, they were absolutely vile to play against but it worked and got them up. If we did the dirty stuff rather than playing 'nice', would we have at least got a point against Derby or better yet held out for the win, for example?

I personally don't think the mentality of 'ah we missed out again, but at least we played nicely!' is particularly helpful for a club who (apparently) wants to go places.

 

[ExclusiveOxnews]

People on this forum who demand everyone is the same type of fan are exhausting. Kips/Mustards balance out your relentlessly positive posters like Egg and Steve Gilbert. People need to get over it. "moaners blah blah blah"

Its a forum with diverse views.

i reckon its time for someone to create Poster Positivity League Table. Scotch 1/5 favourite to repeat the Arsenal Invincibles season of 2003/2004. Kip odds on for a Derby 07/08.

 

[BrockBuster]

I've felt for a while that our squads always seem considerably weaker than other teams. Other teams have bite and aggression, they manipulate rules to their benefit and take advantage of poor refereeing (time wasting, feigning injuries etc). They surround referees, shout for every decision etc - I rarely see us do this. We're too nice, we don't seem to have that fight.

My question is, is this down to the mentality of the club as a whole, or simply a consequence of squad building?

In my view, we are a very forgiving fanbase. It takes an awful lot for the fans to turn. Even when things were at their worst under KR, I wouldn't say things ever got truly bad beyond posts on social media - a bit of booing in the stadium was about as far as it went beyond that. I compare that to other clubs like Ipswich, for example. Their fans are absolutely ruthless and demand the best. Imagine their reaction if they had our 2 playoff seasons under KR? They'd be calling for heads! But our fans? We quickly accepted what was ultimately a failure and move on.

Some will say it's too much, but isn't that the mentality you need to succeed long term? I regularly see our fans talk about how they'd be 'happy with a draw' or 'take a point' - being fine with not winning isn't the mentality of a group who will go on to achieve success. A club's culture/mentality is often driven by fans and the expectation of fans.

We all keep saying our aim should be promotion, but just shrug our shoulders when we don't achieve it.

In my view, there's very little pressure from anywhere on the squad achieving/succeeding, and I think this is reflected in how our teams over recent years behave on the pitch. We're missing that 'edge'.

Would be interested to hear others thoughts. Do people agree that we, as a club, lack that cutting edge?

So what you're saying is that having a healthy dose of perspective is a bad thing, and online toxicity is a good thing? Right.

But what would happen if all 24 League One clubs had 'ruthless' fans? Would that mean all 24 teams would be promoted every year because there's a direct correlation between fans being asshats and that pressure making the players perform better? I think your plan may break the league system as we know it.

 

[WuTang]

Is playing the 'right way' holding us back, though? I think of Wycombe in the season they got promoted, they were absolutely vile to play against but it worked and got them up. If we did the dirty stuff rather than playing 'nice', would we have at least got a point against Derby or better yet held out for the win, for example?

I personally don't think the mentality of 'ah we missed out again, but at least we played nicely!' is particularly helpful for a club who (apparently) wants to go places.

It certainly holds us back when we have no alternative. Barnsley and Derby games were prime examples, we played some nice football against Derby but ended up crumbling to relentless long balls and crosses coming at us. Derby know they can play better, prettier football than that but they went for the most effective to overturn the deficit.

Barnsley play some great football but in those conditions used the long throw on almost every throw in they had in our half, loaded the box kept us in there winning the second ball from clearances. We have a long throw specialist and didn't use it once, we should have used it anyway and waited for the clearances to fall for us but we opted not to use it all together because it's a squad peppered with small weak players who would never win the header.

Naivety and unable to mix things up means we'll be behind the sides who can do both. Last time I checked that's where we are now, and struggling to beat those sides in the top 6.

 

[MustardYellow]

So what you're saying is that having a healthy dose of perspective is a bad thing, and online toxicity is a good thing? Right.

But what would happen if all 24 League One clubs had 'ruthless' fans? Would that mean all 24 teams would be promoted every year because there's a direct correlation between fans being asshats and that pressure making the players perform better? I think your plan may break the league system as we know it.

The idea we should just be happy with what we get because things could be worse is quite a weak mentality to have when you're in competitive sport.

My point was, in the last few years we've had 2 opportunities to win cup finals at Wembley, 2 opportunities in the play-offs (and should've made them in another season), and we fell short in all of them. Put other clubs in those situations and that's deemed as failure and not good enough - after each of those events there would be a demand that the club pushes on. We don't really have that? If we fall short it's just sort of 'oh well'.

I don't think we're a club with a 'winners mentality'.

 

[Mojofilter]

So what you're saying is that having a healthy dose of perspective is a bad thing, and online toxicity is a good thing? Right.

But what would happen if all 24 League One clubs had 'ruthless' fans? Would that mean all 24 teams would be promoted every year because there's a direct correlation between fans being asshats and that pressure making the players perform better? I think your plan may break the league system as we know it.

Please, this isn't the USA, we call them c***s here

 

[MustardYellow]

It certainly holds us back when we have no alternative. Barnsley and Derby games were prime examples, we played some nice football against Derby but ended up crumbling to relentless long balls and crosses coming at us. Derby know they can play better, prettier football than that but they went for the most effective to overturn the deficit.

Barnsley play some great football but in those conditions used the long throw on almost every throw in they had in our half, loaded the box kept us in there winning the second ball from clearances. We have a long throw specialist and didn't use it once, we should have used it anyway and waited for the clearances to fall for us but we opted not to use it all together because it's a squad peppered with small weak players who would never win the header.

Naivety and unable to mix things up means we'll be behind the sides who can do both. Last time I checked that's where we are now, and struggling to beat those sides in the top 6.

Barnsley also did the nasty stuff well. Wasting time, taking time getting up/injuries, hassling/niggling at our players at every opportunity, winning cheap free kicks. We don't do those things, even when holding on to a slender lead. Rarely do you see our players actually try do to anything about it either - we just stand back and allow opposition teams to time waste. Why does no one hassle the referee? Every other team does it.

We just seem very soft in my opinion and have done for years.

 

[SteMerritt]

If I wanted to see my team hassling the referee, doing niggly fouls, winning cheap free-kicks, winding up opposition players, then I would go and watch Wycombe. You can win games of football without resorting to this, if you get your tactics right.

 

[werthersoriginal]

The idea we should just be happy with what we get because things could be worse is quite a weak mentality to have when you're in competitive sport.

My point was, in the last few years we've had 2 opportunities to win cup finals at Wembley, 2 opportunities in the play-offs (and should've made them in another season), and we fell short in all of them. Put other clubs in those situations and that's deemed as failure and not good enough - after each of those events there would be a demand that the club pushes on. We don't really have that? If we fall short it's just sort of 'oh well'.

I don't think we're a club with a 'winners mentality'.

Oh well!

 

[MustardYellow]

If I wanted to see my team hassling the referee, doing niggly fouls, winning cheap free-kicks, winding up opposition players, then I would go and watch Wycombe. You can win games of football without resorting to this, if you get your tactics right.

If doing that meant we held on for a point (or maybe even won) against Derby, would you still not agree with it?

We see it being done to us all the time, and it often works - why wouldn't we if it makes us more likely to win games?

 

[SteMerritt]

If doing that meant we held on for a point (or maybe even won) against Derby, would you still not agree with it?

We see it being done to us all the time, and it often works - why wouldn't we if it makes us more likely to win games?

Teams don't HAVE to do that. You can manage games without resorting to pettiness. What's to say that breaking up the game would have made any difference to the game against Derby? I've seen teams try to hang on against us many times in the past by doing that sort of thing and not manage it. Do you have any actual stats that show employing the 'dark arts' win more points than they lose?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

What concerns me is Des is from the CFG. And the mentality of the flagship CFG team Manchester City is to pass teams to death. Might work in the Premier League when the United Arab Emirates can buy you whichever player you require, but much harder to make work in League One.

Obviously I'm aware Desmond is realistic enough to not try and play exactly like Manchester City, but I question whether what he's learnt is going to translate well into third division football. I was really struck by how bored I was watching the Barnsley game, I know the conditions didn't help but it was an absolute snoozefest. On a recent thread some posters questioned whether modern football is just boring and it was hard to disagree watching that.

WuTang is the poster I agree with most on here about football, and the word "naive" sums it up for me with Oxford United so often. The ultimate example to me for this was Northampton away, when O'Donker needlessly clattered someone, giving them a last minute set piece they scored from.

As more players get back fit it's going to be harder and harder to make excuses.

I'm starting to think Manning was maybe a better manager than I credited him for, but I want Des to work for several reasons:

1) I can't help buying into the romanticism (is that a word?!) of having an Oxford boy in charge
2) The club spent a lot of money to get him and that makes it more gut-wrenching if it doesn't work.
3) I like the idea of stability. I don't want to become like Charlton chopping and changing managers every 20 games.

 

[Eric Blair]

What concerns me is Des is from the CFG. And the mentality of the flagship CFG team Manchester City is to pass teams to death. Might work in the Premier League when the United Arab Emirates can buy you whichever player you require, but much harder to make work in League One.

Obviously I'm aware Desmond is realistic enough to not try and play exactly like Manchester City, but I question whether what he's learnt is going to translate well into third division football. I was really struck by how bored I was watching the Barnsley game, I know the conditions didn't help but it was an absolute snoozefest. On a recent thread some posters questioned whether modern football is just boring and it was hard to disagree watching that.

WuTang is the poster I agree with most on here about football, and the word "naive" sums it up for me with Oxford United so often. The ultimate example to me for this was Northampton away, when O'Donker needlessly clattered someone, giving them a last minute set piece they scored from.

As more players get back fit it's going to be harder and harder to make excuses.

I'm starting to think Manning was maybe a better manager than I credited him for, but I want Des to work for several reasons:

1) I can't help buying into the romanticism (is that a word?!) of having an Oxford boy in charge
2) The club spent a lot of money to get him and that makes it more gut-wrenching if it doesn't work.
3) I like the idea of stability. I don't want to become like Charlton chopping and changing managers every 20 games.

I agree that @WuTang is a good poster. I go back to patience though. Three windows were needed to repair some of the damage done by KR. That takes time. I think Des has the know-how and the brains to get it right. He needs the players. We have a good squad that is getting better but it takes time. Relegation candidates to top six in nine months is pretty astonishing.

That said there are some areas that trouble me. I don't really understand the drop off of form for Ruben and Marcus (Marcus was world beating for the first few games - Cambridge Utd to one side) and right back is still a worry for me (sorry Sam).

 

[Steve Gilbert]

People on this forum who demand everyone is the same type of fan are exhausting. Kips/Mustards balance out your relentlessly positive posters like Egg and Steve Gilbert. People need to get over it. "moaners blah blah blah"

Its a forum with diverse views.

Oi, don’t drag me into this

Especially when I feel I have been very critical of the club of late