Brexit Party Rally

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I don't have any particular thoughts about Antifa. Agree with many of their stated objectives, but not their tactics. Interested in your rather flakey thought process though. I oppose right wing extremism. Antifa oppose right wing extremism, therefore I must be in favour of Antifa and everything they do, right?

Britain First provided shelter for people with extremist views, one of whom murdered an MP. They are scumbags. Perhaps you could offer some form of support for them? Perhaps they're misunderstood or perhaps they're reflecting understandable alienation of a sector of the population? Go ahead, fill your boots.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Well If you think antifa are a decent bunch of chaps you are very much mistaken and if you insist on one person with mental health issues acting alone representing a political party then I see that you are very , very left .

 

[Navegante]

^^^ You've been rumbled Comrad Pete 'Red' Burrett

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

It would really help debate if you didn't make things up. I don't think Antifa are a decent bunch of chaps. I haven't said that or even alluded to it. I said I agree with many of their stated objectives, but not their tactics.

As for your last paragraph, doesn't really make sense, does it? I am very, very left for stating that Britain First harboured a murderer? I would call that an indisputable observation.

Harboured a murderer...are you quite mad ??
And you agree that thugs are great as long as they are 'your ' thugs .
And people might hold different opinions to yours Pete . Yes violence is the answer according to you

 

[Marked Ox]

Harboured a murderer...are you quite mad ??
And you agree that thugs are great as long as they are 'your ' thugs .
And people might hold different opinions to yours Pete . Yes violence is the answer according to you

I'm reading something very different to you clearly!

Also, the leader and deputy leader of Britain First were also found guilty of religiously aggravated harassment in 2018. So it isn't just one.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I'm reading something very different to you clearly!

Also, the leader and deputy leader of Britain First were also found guilty of racially aggravated harassment in 2018. So it isn't just one.

I am sure that no o

I'm reading something very different to you clearly!

Also, the leader and deputy leader of Britain First were also found guilty of racially aggravated harassment in 2018. So it isn't just one.

no one would condone anyone killing someone for any political beliefs , the man who killed Jo Cox was obviously derranged .
I was originally stating that whether left of right we shouldn't hate but try and build bridges . Its too easy to tarnish all with the same brush.

 

[Marked Ox]

I am sure that no o

no one would condone anyone killing someone for any political beliefs , the man who killed Jo Cox was obviously derranged .
I was originally stating that whether left of right we shouldn't hate but try and build bridges . Its too easy to tarnish all with the same brush.

While I agree in theory about talking, Britain First are a racist organisation. How do you build bridges with them and square the circle of their views with the other communities such as Asian communities?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

But some of these extreme groups *are* hate groups. That's the point of them! They *hate* people with different views to them, or with the *wrong* colour skin or whatever they've decided is to be the focus of their unreasoning anger. It does not matter how much you want to build bridges, bridges have to have some foundations. You can be on the right of politics without condoning or excusing these people, in the same way as you can be on the left and not wear a Baader Meinhof t-shirt.

 

[Gary Baldi]

There is nothing nice or progressive about Antifa. Nothing at all. The fact social media platforms still see it fit host their content absolutely amazes me when they "purged" similar content on the right as it went against community standards (or whatever the excuse was). Anyone that aligns with their aims or views needs to look closer into what those "scumbags" are really like. And step away.

They are not a group you want to associate with.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

You can 'align with the aims' of an organisation without agreeing with their methods.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I wouldn't even say they have my support. Fighting fascism = good, paramilitary = bad in my book.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I would say that the facists and communists in the 30's who fought each other were as bad as one another and both regimes murdered millions of people. I would not support either group as both as bad as each other

 

[dannyc]

Fascism is an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. Those who want such a government / social organisation are fascists. If you want self governance under such a system you are a fascist. If 'putting your own house in order' involves wanting an authoritarian and nationalistic right wing system of government that's fascism.

Why are you associating a 'Franco-German alliance' (which doesn't actually exist, by the way) with fascism? Putin's Russia is a fascist entity, the EU is not. And why are you associating the efforts of world war veterans with a vote to leave the EU?

Yep, freedom and democracy, and to free Europe and save ourselves from fascist dictatorships. Anyone who actually believes the EU in any way replicates a fascist dictatorship needs to understand the term better. It was noticeable during the DDay commemoration how many veterans spoke proudly of being European.

people can be proud to be european and not like the European union you know both are not the same thing .

 

[Whingit]

Essentially you mean proud to be white, I'm guessing?

 

[dannyc]

Essentially you mean proud to be white, I'm guessing?

NO oh thats right lefties like you think only white people are racists i guess .

 

[Discoland]

Essentially you mean proud to be white, I'm guessing?

In Danny's defence I love Europe and all it has to offer; the sights, different cultures, new experiences and all that, but the EU is broken. I still believe we need to be in it to fix it though.

The Brexit Party's protest today was petty, as was the Lib Dems. Billy big b*llocks Farage created this mess and everyone should be looking to him to blame, not helped by points gaining and childish games from the Tories and Labour. As far as I can see we're screwed with a no deal Brexit and marginally less screwed by remaining in and voting in numbers at the next GE for the most viable party at the time.

 

[Gary Baldi]

You can 'align with the aims' of an organisation without agreeing with their methods.

I don't agree. If you align with the aims, you align with the methods to get those aims across. I don't think you cannot abdicate personal responsibility of how organisations/pressure groups like Antifa work/operate just because you align with their ethos.

Otherwise can someone, in theory, say I align with the Nazis mentality of racial purification in Europe, but not the methods they do it get there? Therefore I support the Nazis but if they murder some Jews, oh well? It's an extreme example, but nonetheless.

 

[Foley]

In Danny's defence I love Europe and all it has to offer; the sights, different cultures, new experiences and all that, but the EU is broken. I still believe we need to be in it to fix it though.

The Brexit Party's protest today was petty, as was the Lib Dems. Billy big b*llocks Farage created this mess and everyone should be looking to him to blame, not helped by points gaining and childish games from the Tories and Labour.

I totally agree with that. I love so much about Europe but there are big problems within and with the EU in my view.
I know that many will disagree but I tend to think that if we remained in the EU now there would be a lot of very angry people who voted out. In addition I would suspect that the UKs influence in the EU would be significantly reduced ( the EU do appear to be happy to 'punish' the UK as a disincentive for any other Country thinking of doing the same thing)

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I don't agree. If you align with the aims, you align with the methods to get those aims across. I don't think you cannot abdicate personal responsibility of how organisations/pressure groups like Antifa work/operate just because you align with their ethos.

Otherwise can someone, in theory, say I align with the Nazis mentality of racial purification in Europe, but not the methods they do it get there? Therefore I support the Nazis but if they murder some Jews, oh well? It's an extreme example, but nonetheless.

Rubbish. And you've brought the Nazis up again!

'Align with the mentality'? The mentality of the Nazis was fascism, racism and genocide! I didn't say I 'supported' anyone (in fact I specifically rejected that word). I might like the aims (for example) of the RSPCA - and do - but I am not at all convinced by the organisation itself and some of the methods they use. I might like the aims of the Labour Party - and some of them I do - but as an organisation I do NOT support them for other reasons. You can actually say the same about the Tory party. I support the work done by Oxfam whole-heartedly - but am dismayed by what some of their employees have done.

I reiterate - it is quite possible to agree with the aims of an organisation (and again I did NOT ever mention Antifa) without endorsing or supporting that organisation. For many reasons.

 

[chuckbert]

I don't agree. If you align with the aims, you align with the methods to get those aims across. I don't think you cannot abdicate personal responsibility of how organisations/pressure groups like Antifa work/operate just because you align with their ethos.

Otherwise can someone, in theory, say I align with the Nazis mentality of racial purification in Europe, but not the methods they do it get there? Therefore I support the Nazis but if they murder some Jews, oh well? It's an extreme example, but nonetheless.

I don’t think that’s a particularly defensible position. If someone in Texas agrees with the state that murder a bad thing, it doesn’t mean they support capital punishment any more than someone in Oxford. If someone agrees with the prolife movement it doesnt mean they agree with shooting doctors. Quakers agreed with the British government that the nazis were terrible, but didn’t agree with bombing Germany. There are huge numbers of causes where there are groups who share common aims but have a massive spectrum of approaches to addressing them on which they will fundamentally disagree.

Your example is a particularly poor one. There is no reason why someone couldn’t hold a thoroughly racist position without supporting genocide. Your argument fails on the characterisation “I support the nazis but”. No one said “I support antifa but” they said they agreed with their aims but not their actions. That’s different.