Home Match Day Thread 24/02/2024 L1: OUFC v Leyton Orient

[Northstandboy]

Post Match Discussion

Interview - Des Buckingham

Interview - Tyler Goodrham

Match Highlights

Match Report

Ref Watch

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[holdsteady]

After that (combined with the previous games he has been in charge for) it’s hard to feel that we haven’t made a mistake appointing him, he just doesn’t seem to know how to set up a team to get a result in this league.

We were overachieving being in the top two, anyone saying differently there is lying or off their nut. Even getting in the play offs might have been overachieving with this team, but given the lead he had still doable. But the way we are playing we look vulnerable against nearly every team we play.

To be in the lead 3 times at home to Northampton and Leyton Orient and only come away with one point is depressing.

 

[Northernyellow]

I really want Buckingham to succeed. But for the first time, I'm really not sure he's going to make it. That was just awful. Orient aren't a bad side but you could tell straightaway that they were worried at our pace. Good early goal and they backpedalled every time we ran at them. Which makes the last 60 minutes even more baffling. Why sit back and pass the ball around with no pace. What were we hoping to achieve? We were just waiting to be picked off. It was so obvious from 50+ that we were going to lose. Not quite as bad as the last days of KR, but not far off. It's very concerning.

 

[tonyw]

Orient outplayed us for large parts and move the ball around so swiftly and effectively. We did have some counter attack glimmers in the first half but we were ultimately chasing shadows for the entire second. Their first goal was an outstanding move but it stemmed from us giving the ball away and failing to defend. The second was just dreadful defending all round.

This is not excusing our performance - because we were awful. Again. - but I actually thought that Orient were really good today.
They played out from defense the way we should be able to, but never seem to get right. Crisp, one touch passing throughout the team to beat the press, get the ball to one of your attacking midfielders and have them driving forwards towards goal.
At this level, when teams (including us) try to play from the back, it's usually pass-pass-dodgy pass-panic-hoof/tackle. But Orient kept the ball and found the right pass consistently well. We couldn't get the ball off them for long stretches of play. If their finishing hadn't mostly been bobbins, we could have had a hiding.

As for us.....can't help but think that our big problem area has become the centre of midfield. First couple of months of the season, when McGuane and RR were on fire, we dominated the middle of the park and completely ran games. Now, Cam is still doing his thing but everyone around him is either mostly invisible (RR) or playing like an absolute clown (Matete today.....followed by McGuane when he came on - it was absolute roulette as to where even a simple five yard pass would go for either of them). Really struggling to put any passes together, so we're having to resort to lumping the ball long down the channels to a set of forwards who are really not great in the air.

And we're still defending like we're afraid to tackle anybody. They need to start getting ****ing stuck in. I thought that was supposed to be Matete's game - the fact that he's not playing that way is making me wonder if this is actually how they're being coached. Just fill the space, try and get in the way, but don't commit. And sure, it's how many Premier League teams go about things, but this is League One and it just doesn't work at this level.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

It is damning that an interviewer has to ask you to explain your style after ~20 games but worse when you can’t answer.

He’s started entering Robinson territory over the last few days. Scoffing at comments from fans and adopting an attitude of “people just don’t understand the game”. Dangerous territory. He’s clearly feeling enormous pressure.

As for people saying he definitely won’t be sacked - completely disagree. If we totally blow it and are mathematically out of the race with several games to go I think he will be gone. He needs to make a serious fist of it and improve performances immensely to get another crack. If he goes Full Waddock he won’t last.

I’ve not wanted a surprise win more than Pompey next weekend in a long time. Everybody needs it.

 

[uptheus]

Utter rubbish.

The players have been failing to carry out basic footballing concepts, last games played are won 5, drew 5 and lost 9, not footballing highlights so far, manager has to go, pure and simply get rid of him.

Matete can’t play, Rodrigues can’t play, Bodin can’t play, and a few others whom I won’t name have doubtful contracts.

Time to go, Des has to leave tonight and be done with it.

As for Pompey, god help us.

So we’re averaging 1 point per game, so based on this we should end up with 68 points which will probably mean we’ll miss out on the play offs which sounds about right.

 

[Malc]

That said, today is the first day I’m inclined to ask questions. We’ve let in some seriously weak goals last 2 games. Something definitely isn’t right.

Missing Moore enormously.

 

[Coffin dodger]

I think we should get the under 9s coaches to work with the first team, just on the basics like controlling, passing and recognising the difference between a yellow and a red shirt.

 

[bazzer9461]

I only caught the first half of his interview so maybe I missed it, but Des started the interview by saying we were second best and didn’t deserve anything from the game. I thought it was commendable candour and appreciated the honesty. We’re all frustrated but I don’t think this is something we can level at him.

(He did then go on to say that ‘anyone looking for it’ could see that our style of play has changed in recent weeks and that it’s clear what we’re trying to do, which seemed a bit unsubstantiated and chippy to me.)

That’s a poor attitude, wake up and sort it out!

 

[holdsteady]

I think we should get the under 9s coaches to work with the first team, just on the basics like controlling, passing and recognising the difference between a yellow and a red shirt.

Looks like we already have employed an under 9s coach.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Looks like we already have employed an under 9s coach.

That's very harsh.


On u9's coaches.

 

[Chippy]

Everyone saying Des has been badly let down by the chuckle brothers, do you have any evidence of this? It’s probably true, but is it them actually stopping Des bringing in some support staff of his own, or a case of Des not managing to convince the right support staff to join him?

Any manager accepting a new job at a football club would as part of the deal make it clear what the conditions of their appointment are. Des clearly didn’t have any back up staff ready and willing to join him here and hasn’t managed to recruit the required staff. How much of that is down to Tim and Grant and how much is down to Des, no one actually knows.

I also believe @Leysboy has hit the nail on the head with players not necessarily going the extra mile for Des. I agree that’s not good enough from the said players but no one can be expected to “grass” them up. The point should be WHY are they not playing 100% for Des, and what is it they are not buying into?

There are clearly fundamental issues across various levels at OCC, much of this is because the owners are so distant and so trust whatever Tim and Grant are doing and are telling them. For them to suggest to the owners that they got the appointment badly wrong and with the compensation we had to pay, that is simply not going to happen.

The owners need to have more understanding of our club and football in general and be more hands on and challenging. Tim and Grant are clearly letting us down, but Des is also not helping himself and clearly struggling in a role where he has insufficient contacts and influence to bring in the requisite support staff required on the playing side. It all adds up to failure and the results on the pitch in the last 20 games tell the story.

 

[Johnf]

Shocking performance today from the team as a whole. We were outplayed by orient, and what’s worse is they seemed to want the points more than we did.

 

[bazzer9461]

Missing Moore enormously.

And just to think we left in the 85th minute and followed Moore past the quad, maybe he had enough as well.

 

[behindthegoal]

I haven't seen metate give one good performance,
He can go back as far as I'm concerned

 

[holdsteady]

Whatever you thought of Manning's football (I remember a general vibe that it was a bit stale and boring) it was so clear, organised and drilled. The results spoke for themselves.

Every time I've watched us under Des, it seems so clear that nobody really knows what they're doing... but just as concerning is that nobody knows what anyone else is doing either. There are no patterns, no discernable tactics, and while we have had some good results and some excellent periods of play, we just look so disorganised and undercoached. We're still in 6th, so I don't think it's as doom and gloom as it seems here, but it's still a worrying trend.

Realistically we're not getting rid of Des, and the likelihood is that we'll limp along like this and fizzle out towards the end of the season. But the focus in the summer has to be on getting proper support staff around Des. Skilled, experienced coaches who can support building and drilling a plan into the team. Not to absolve him of the blame for this but it's not all on him - the man needs proper help.

If Buckingham requires other coaches to make him good enough to do the job then you have to question if he is who you want in the job?
Why not just give one of the coaches who are going to make up for his inability to do his job the managers role?
Why would someone good enough to improve us loads want to come in to be the assistant to the man who isn’t good enough?

Buckingham has to be accountable as well, he is getting a very well paid free ride at the moment.

 

[Osei Yaw]

Very difficult to convey on a forum that what I’m saying is really through gritted teeth. I never wanted Des to fail. He was my preferred candidate. So to see him arrive and be left to drown by the board gives me no pleasure whatsoever. I want nothing more than for us to win games and I think I’ve made is abundantly clear that Manning oversaw the most enjoyable period I’ve had as a fan in some time. I miss that time terribly - the buzz, the anticipation, the confidence. It’s reaching a sad state of apathy again. Do I think Des is the whole problem? Of course not.

It’s the wrong appointment not because Des is horribly inadequate but because we haven’t brought him in to the right environment to succeed. He was a poor selection for the job description. It’s a mismatch. I don’t blame him for taking it.

Manning made it work. They worked for the same people. He was stronger, wiser, more selfish but still managed to do that and bring the club with him. We really didn’t realise what we had when we had him. He could go away and beat Derby and Barnsley in a week with a more limited group of players than Des had to extract a point from Northampton and Leyton Orient at home.

We can’t use Tim and Grant as a reason Des can’t win a game of football with this group of players. It isn’t the perfect squad but how is it that Wellens can whip those players in to a shape that comes to the team 6th in the league and dominate like that?

I know there are problems top to bottom but I can’t buy in to the idea that Des is excused while we target the board. He is massively underachieving with what’s at his disposal.

I agree with an awul lot of what you're saying. I'm also not asking for Des to be excused - I understand why people are fed up. We look crap and completely disjointed. It's an incredibly frustrating watch and we are gifting goals away, without the confidence we'll score enough to win the game.

I just want people to be asking questions of Tim and Grant. I think they massively lucked out with the appointment of Manning. I think you're right that Manning was a stronger character than Des. He could also afford to be because he came in with his own team - that bit is key. Buckingham has been completely let down on that front and I think it's showing.

The reason I despair is because I think Williams and Ferguson have 2 options from here on Buckingham - back him, or sack him.

Given they allowed Robinson to almost take us to League 2 then I can't see them taking the second option. Sacking him so soon after appointing him on a long contract would also confirm to everyone that they made an expensive mistake appointing Des in the first place, so I think it's off the table.

So then will they back him? Problem is, I don't think they'll do that either. They sort of tried to get him an Assistant Manager months ago. We offered terms to someone but they were shite and they turned us down, so Tim and Grant just gave up on it. Luke Taylor arrived a couple of weeks ago but had been ready and waiting well before that, but we only appointed him at the end of a slog of games where we've been playing twice a week. This is elite sport and marginal gains count for a lot. Every day that we have stood still has meant someone else is gaining on us and he people who should be setting standards, aren't. It looks like a leadership void throughout the club.

Best result for me from this position would be if Tim and Grant could see their weaknesses, and appoint someone who knows football to take ownership of that side of the club. But I feel like that's like going back in time a few years and hoping Karl could go out and buy a couple of left backs and a defensive midfielder or two.

 

[bazzer9461]

Everyone saying Des has been badly let down by the chuckle brothers, do you have any evidence of this? It’s probably true, but is it them actually stopping Des bringing in some support staff of his own, or a case of Des not managing to convince the right support staff to join him?

Any manager accepting a new job at a football club would as part of the deal make it clear what the conditions of their appointment are. Des clearly didn’t have any back up staff ready and willing to join him here and hasn’t managed to recruit the required staff. How much of that is down to Tim and Grant and how much is down to Des, no one actually knows.

I also believe @Leysboy has hit the nail on the head with players not necessarily going the extra mile for Des. I agree that’s not good enough from the said players but no one can be expected to “grass” them up. The point should be WHY are they not playing 100% for Des, and what is it they are not buying into?

There are clearly fundamental issues across various levels at OCC, much of this is because the owners are so distant and so trust whatever Tim and Grant are doing and are telling them. For them to suggest to the owners that they got the appointment badly wrong and with the compensation we had to pay, that is simply not going to happen.

The owners need to have more understanding of our club and football in general and be more hands on and challenging. Tim and Grant are clearly letting us down, but Des is also not helping himself and clearly struggling in a role where he has insufficient contacts and influence to bring in the requisite support staff required on the playing side. It all adds up to failure and the results on the pitch in the last 20 games tell the story.

I think Benson might also have something to do with it

 

[38yearsofpain]

I only caught the first half of his interview so maybe I missed it, but Des started the interview by saying we were second best and didn’t deserve anything from the game. I thought it was commendable candour and appreciated the honesty. We’re all frustrated but I don’t think this is something we can level at him.

(He did then go on to say that ‘anyone looking for it’ could see that our style of play has changed in recent weeks and that it’s clear what we’re trying to do, which seemed a bit unsubstantiated and chippy to me.)

I may have misheard but I thought he said he thought we deserved to win. I appreciate he said our style of play had changed and that we have various options but like many others have intimated, it looks like a plan with very little substance.
My concern is it is getting worse, confidence looks shot and players are expected to play outside their comfort zone. Under Manning those same players were being used whereby the team performance was better than the sum of the individual parts whereas now the team performance is constantly poor. Individual players look shells of their Manning incarnation. The signs have not looked good and it is beginning to you like this is the new reality for this season.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Most concerned that we needed half time so much as Orient completely on top , we somehow make it 1 up but then come out for the 2nd half exactly the bleeding same just waiting for Orient to score.
I'll support Des but needs to start getting some results ASAP.
Awful awful week

 

[Davox]

I reckon there should be some positives to balance the negative (including my own comments btw!)
Positives are
1) this season is a massive improvement on last season.
2) There have been improvements with attacking play in particular over this season. Did we really believe we were going to get promotion after a) narrowly missing out on relegation last season and b) losing a quality manager and assistant half way through?
3) the stadium planning application is in and looks like a professional job!

I think Des knows as well as we all do, he’s got a chance to build some credit still with 11 games to go. No one on here except Swindon trolls wants him to fail so good luck Des and you’re right about one thing….everyone needs to stick together!