Away Match Day Thread 16/09/2023 L1: Fleetwood v OUFC

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Northstandboy

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It’s felt like ages since that loss to Port Vale.

Fleetwood seem to be a bogey team and with the suspensions (Harris and Leigh) and international player injuries (Brown and Goodrham), it’s going to be tough!
 
It’s not a witch hunt on certain players, it’s merely pointing out the weak parts of our starting eleven or squad. If we have serious aspirations of achieving a top two finish, then these areas need to be bought under the microscope, and replaced with players that can be consistent with their performances. Other clubs will use whatever data they have available, and will target those weaknesses. That could be the difference between going up, or the lottery of the playoffs. I know which of those two options I’d prefer.

Just because we win away from home 3-0 doesn’t mean fans aren’t allowed to point the finger at certain players, if their performance warrants criticism.
 
On another day we concede, then who knows what might have happened. Fact is, we didn't come out well in the second half. That we then put the game to bed is credit to the whole team, but let's not pretend that everything was hunky dory.

For what it's worth, Brown didn't look completely fit in any case for me. Thorniley and Long both did OK, but everyone is aware of their deficiencies...incidentally, so too do their supposedly better replacements Stevens and Negru. All of them will play a huge role in getting to where we want to be this season.
 
It’s not a witch hunt on certain players, it’s merely pointing out the weak parts of our starting eleven or squad. If we have serious aspirations of achieving a top two finish, then these areas need to be bought under the microscope, and replaced with players that can be consistent with their performances. Other clubs will use whatever data they have available, and will target those weaknesses. That could be the difference between going up, or the lottery of the playoffs. I know which of those two options I’d prefer.

Just because we win away from home 3-0 doesn’t mean fans aren’t allowed to point the finger at certain players, if their performance warrants criticism.
Everything you say is fair, but surely it’s ok to think that the performances of these players on Saturday didn’t warrant criticism?

If you want to talk about whether a player is good enough more generally, rather than in a specific match, surely that belongs in the players section rather than the Fleetwood match thread?
 
It's 2026 and Oxford are walking out in their new stadium as PL champions after an incredible run that saw them win back to back to back titles!

Meanwhile on the Oxford Forum conversations continue about s**t fullbacks, not having a striker and whether or not Karl Robinson ever got anyone decent on loan or not!!!
Karl Robinson was manager last season. Last season.

And you think it’s totally unreasonable to discuss a comparison between his loan signings and the current manager, who replaced him?!
 
I’ve got to say when people regularly criticise particular individual instances of defending it always makes me chuckle. I don’t just mean on here but in general, whether that be on SKY or MOTD etc… You hear comments of he should have been closer, not allowed him to turn or get a cross in, badly positioned etc… Yet if these instances never happened and defenders were perfect, most games would end up a boring 0-0 draw of very few chances, and no one would want to keep watching.

You could argue for Oxford’s goals on Sat that the Fleetwood man sat too far off of Mills for our first, their central defender shouldn't have allowed Moore to win the header for the knock down on our second or Bodin shouldn’t have been given space, or why wasn’t Edwards closed down much sooner for our 3rd. If those things had happened we’d barely have had a goal attempt for 90 minutes.

Sometimes it’s good play from the forwards or whoever to get in the right positions, but constantly criticising poor defending always seems the way to go, as I say even with TV pundits. Everything is always the defenders error or bad play, rather than quality forward play. If we get a faultless defensive performance from both sides each week, then let’s all look forward to 0-0 draws week after week and very little excitement.

We’re Oxford Utd in League One, we simply aren’t going to have 11 faultless performances on the pitch where we create 20 chances and the opposition have none!
 
Everything you say is fair, but surely it’s ok to think that the performances of these players on Saturday didn’t warrant criticism?

If you want to talk about whether a player is good enough more generally, rather than in a specific match, surely that belongs in the players section rather than the Fleetwood match thread?
That’s really all it ever was but the point has been dragged out considerably further than intended.

I didn’t say they played especially poorly, I said that we were able to offset their rather basic style of full back play really effectively. That then grew arms and legs and we went in to the micros about their performances but Long, Brown and Thorniley had decent afternoons, just nothing out the ordinary.

It wasn’t a bashing of their contributions on the day because it was nothing we don’t see every time they play. And for me we’ve now seen the good, bad and ugly of Oxford under Manning and in all eventualities I’ve been left feeling that we remain weak in those positions as they are often a big part of the problem when it goes wrong and not a great part of the solution when it goes right. Can we attribute much of yesterday’s win to Brown and Long? Not really. Were their performances irreplaceable in the epic wins at Derby and Barnsley? Not really. And that’s a pattern that’s emerged more so with them than other players. My worry is we will always have one eye on mitigating them.

But hey, we do have alternatives. It’s not like we’ll need to have this debate every week as Leigh and Stevens will play plenty.
 
Appleton was generally pretty good with the loan market as well. He brought in a fair few players who went on to play well above where we were as a L2 outfit, and even where we are now. Roofe, Kenny, Martinez and Baldock were the most obvious ones but the likes of Carlton Morris and Tyler Roberts have gone on to play in the Premier League. He also had Brennan Johnson at Lincoln, as well as Morgan Rogers. Plus he had the likes of Mason Mount, Harvey Barnes and Oli McBurnie lined up before he went to Leicester in the summer of 2017. Manning seems similar in the sense that clubs are willing to loan him players who they think have got a genuine shot at making it for them. We’re getting players who are wanted rather than those who are being helped out the door.

Go and look at the loans we had between summer 2018 and January 2023 and it’s pretty dreadful in terms of where the loan players have ended up after being here. We were utterly incapable of signing any player on loan that their parent club had any real interest in, or who were destined for a higher level than L1 at best. Grim.

Not specifically loans, but I found the below quite an interesting read and a small sample size of the kind of recruitment that often ensued under the old regime.

 
A great result against a poor side, Fleetwood have just one point. However, we took them apart which last season we wouldn’t have managed. Saturday’s game against Exeter will be more of a yardstick, they’re top of the table and although I don’t think they’ll be there at Christmas, they’re playing well now. A win Saturday will show us just how well we’re doing. Greg Leigh will be available, so strengthening the squad further. Looking forward to moving up the table.
 
I’ve got to say when people regularly criticise particular individual instances of defending it always makes me chuckle. I don’t just mean on here but in general, whether that be on SKY or MOTD etc… You hear comments of he should have been closer, not allowed him to turn or get a cross in, badly positioned etc… Yet if these instances never happened and defenders were perfect, most games would end up a boring 0-0 draw of very few chances, and no one would want to keep watching.

You could argue for Oxford’s goals on Sat that the Fleetwood man sat too far off of Mills for our first, their central defender shouldn't have allowed Moore to win the header for the knock down on our second or Bodin shouldn’t have been given space, or why wasn’t Edwards closed down much sooner for our 3rd. If those things had happened we’d barely have had a goal attempt for 90 minutes.

Sometimes it’s good play from the forwards or whoever to get in the right positions, but constantly criticising poor defending always seems the way to go, as I say even with TV pundits. Everything is always the defenders error or bad play, rather than quality forward play. If we get a faultless defensive performance from both sides each week, then let’s all look forward to 0-0 draws week after week and very little excitement.

We’re Oxford Utd in League One, we simply aren’t going to have 11 faultless performances on the pitch where we create 20 chances and the opposition have none!
Some goals are completely down to defensive errors. Some goals are just pure attacking brilliance, almost undefendable. And most are a mix of both.

I constantly see on SKY/MOTD pundits saying ‘That’s an amazing run/strike/cross/header’ and purely praising the attacking team.

Looking at our goals on Saturday for example, it would be insane to purely blame the defence when a player comes inside and pings one into the top corner. No-one expects that. However, if a defender makes a mistake doing a simple defensive action that they’ve done successfully hundreds of times before, well yeah they’re going to get criticised. I’m not sure what’s so controversial about that!
 
A great result against a poor side, Fleetwood have just one point. However, we took them apart which last season we wouldn’t have managed. Saturday’s game against Exeter will be more of a yardstick, they’re top of the table and although I don’t think they’ll be there at Christmas, they’re playing well now. A win Saturday will show us just how well we’re doing. Greg Leigh will be available, so strengthening the squad further. Looking forward to moving up the table.
Exeter will be very different.
Against Fleetwood we could play Bodin upfront and scored a couple of 'worldies'
Without a recognised front man, it will be interesting to see how we make chanced against a much better team.
 
Exeter will be very different.
Against Fleetwood we could play Bodin upfront and scored a couple of 'worldies'
Without a recognised front man, it will be interesting to see how we make chanced against a much better team.

Hopefully GO'D can recover in time to give us options.

It might be the game with no out and out strikers as Exeter's are injured I think.
 
Exeter will be very different.
Against Fleetwood we could play Bodin upfront and scored a couple of 'worldies'
Without a recognised front man, it will be interesting to see how we make chanced against a much better team.

Exeter have only conceded four goals in eight games, which is pretty impressive. Have to assume that they are going to be very sound defensively.

That being said, they've had an easier run of games than us. Most of the teams they've played are in the bottom half (only Wycombe and Pompey are not). They'll probably be looking at our start to the season, and thinking this is comfortably the best attack they've played as well.

(you can't get much more inept than the last attack they played......Cheltenham are still waiting for their first league goal of the season, and didn't score in the EFL Cup either!)
 
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