General Gamesmanship, game management, and drinks breaks

[nick68]

Not putting my tin foil hat on yet, but wonder if Taylor(?) was told to go down shortly before we scored our first to allow a break. Think its fair to say Charlton started better, not sure if KR changed anything during the little team talk but certainly worked out for us.

I would say you are 100% correct and it was exactly what we needed at that point in the game.

 

[chuckbert]

Yup - I posted #steveevansdrinksbreak at the time

 

[ChamonixOx]

Do the same as rugby and have a timekeeper separate to the ref.

Stop the clock and it is visible to everyone in the ground so you play a full match.
Do what you like during the break but know you`ll have to play the full 90

Not in rugby because the clock stops then restarts when play starts so punters get their full 80 minutes.... and a bit more as the play can stay live while the clock is in the red which can make for some really grandstand finishes......... or the ball going to Row Z when the winning team gets it.
Mind you they treat injured players on the pitch, and the game is marginally slower paced.

Rugby only stop the clock when the referee asks for time off. Generally for an injury or to talk to a player. Line outs and when setting the scrum the clock is ticking. In play time is therefore far less than the official 80. What reduces the time wasting is both the respect to the referee, you will often hear him instructing players to get on with it, and the threat of him awarding a ‘free kick’ for delaying the put in at a scrum or line out if players try and slow things down.

As for feigning injury, whilst this is rare in rugby, bloodgate highlights rugby’s not been without it’s own problems over the years, and front row players going off injured when there is no fit replacement to avoid contested scrums when opposition in ascendancy, has probably happened on several occasions.

 

[MarkG]

Amid many differences Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday have one thing in common - Alan Biggs

They might be naive. Maybe some will say they should wise up and “play the game.”

www.thestar.co.uk

 

[MarkG]

After the midweek Pompey game, we were accused of timewasting by an obsessed home fan who took a picture of every time one of our players was down injured.

Oxford and Portsmouth fans get into timewasting spat with 'photos to prove' - Fan Banter

Oxford and Portsmouth fans seemingly get into a timewasting spat with ‘photos to prove’ following the midweek meeting between the two. Colby Bishop netted a 78th-minute equaliser to give Portsmouth a draw at home to 10-man Oxford, who saw Billy Bodin sent off 18 minutes from time after picking...

fanbanter.co.uk

Bolton away:
Robinson : "we slowed the game down when they had their best moment." “I would call it gamesmanship, some will call it other things and one set play and all of a sudden, it’s 3-1 and from then on we were okay.”

Oxford boss Robinson's 'gamesmanship' admission after securing Bolton victory

The U's beat the Whites 3-1 at the University of Bolton Stadium

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Bolton manager Ian Evatt : we must manage the 'dark arts' better.

Evatt outlines why Bolton must manage 'dark arts' better in future

Wanderers tasted defeat over the weekend against Oxford United

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[Orkney Islands Yellow]

It's the sort of thing that as a fan you hate being used against you but have no issues with when your team are doing it!

 

[Brahma]

It's the sort of thing that as a fan you hate being used against you but have no issues with when your team are doing it!

Imagine the indignation if someone like Peterborough did it to us. Yet days later, we all applaud our team doing it vs Pompey.

Oh the irony.

BTW, for clarity, I have no problem at all with us indulging in game management in the professional game.

 

[Sarge]

It's the sort of thing that as a fan you hate being used against you but have no issues with when your team are doing it!

yep

 

[Jolteon]

It's one of those things - if no/most other clubs weren't doing it I wouldn't want us doing it. And for years we didn't and dropped so many points because of it. I think there's a difference when a team does it as a backs to the wall, last 20 minutes "if we don't do this we'll lose" move, and then clubs like Wycombe where it's the default playstyle from minute one no matter the opposition. Where I draw the line is the teams that actively hack down opposition players and put them at injury risk, something that teams have definitely done against us in the past.

I don't like that it's part of the game, but if it's going to be I'd rather we use it too to pick up points rather than always do things "the right way" and lose points. And Pompey especially have no leg to stand on given the s**t they did at the Kassam last season.

 

[Manorlounger]

I don't care which team it is "practising the dark arts", it's cheating and has no place in the game. It has been getting worse every season. Poor officials who are influenced by the writhing on the ground are now not penalising the time wasting to the extent they should and coaches are using that to their advantage. It then infuriates one set of fans and leads to more unrest.
Surely gaining an advantage by unfair means should not be allowed to go unpunished? The trouble being that it has all become so common place, it will just be refined to another level.

It's one of those things - if no/most other clubs weren't doing it I wouldn't want us doing it. And for years we didn't and dropped so many points because of it. I think there's a difference when a team does it as a backs to the wall, last 20 minutes "if we don't do this we'll lose" move, and then clubs like Wycombe where it's the default playstyle from minute one no matter the opposition. Where I draw the line is the teams that actively hack down opposition players and put them at injury risk, something that teams have definitely done against us in the past.

I don't like that it's part of the game, but if it's going to be I'd rather we use it too to pick up points rather than always do things "the right way" and lose points. And Pompey especially have no leg to stand on given the s**t they did at the Kassam last season.

And this is the outcome. None of us want to lose so, we start to accept it as part and parcel of the game. How long before we have a "stoppage coach" whose job it will be to come up with new ways of conning the officials?

 

[chuckbert]

How long before we have a "stoppage coach"

I think the correct name is the “Evans”.

 

[Jolteon]

I don't care which team it is "practising the dark arts", it's cheating and has no place in the game. It has been getting worse every season. Poor officials who are influenced by the writhing on the ground are now not penalising the time wasting to the extent they should and coaches are using that to their advantage. It then infuriates one set of fans and leads to more unrest.
Surely gaining an advantage by unfair means should not be allowed to go unpunished? The trouble being that it has all become so common place, it will just be refined to another level.


And this is the outcome. None of us want to lose so, we start to accept it as part and parcel of the game. How long before we have a "stoppage coach" whose job it will be to come up with new ways of conning the officials?

I'm in full agreement with you. The officials aren't good enough or strong enough at this level and that's a major problem but not something that we can necessarily do much about. I remember it used to be that us EFL supporters would take the mick out of the Premier League primadonnas for the way they'd roll around after slight touches but it has to be said the last few years I'd argue that the EFL has become far worse in terms of attempts to con the officials.

BUT - and it's depressing saying this - if we don't also partake somewhat in the cheating (as you accurately label it) then I genuinely think we'd be a major relegation risk this season, and if we had done it more in seasons past we might even have a promotion to our name too. If we're actively losing points by being nice and not partaking the only club suffering is us.

But what's the fix? Obviously some kind of "ball in play" clock instead of a flat 90 minutes and chuck some minutes on at the end would solve some problems, but not so much the "fake a long injury to take the sting/momentum out the game". VAR does help a little too but also takes some of the soul out of the game and comes with its own long list of issues. Officials are only going to improve is the EFL is willing to pump money in to help them improve - and we all know that ain't happening.

It does leave me torn. Wycombe achieved success by cheating. We've languished being honest. I want to see us be successful being honest, of course, but when everyone else isn't it just leaves you hamstrung.

 

[Manorlounger]

The other side of this "practice" is the inevitable reaction of fans, on both sides. Post Ipswich away game, last season, Mrs L and myself were subjected to a torrent of abuse when leaving the ground. Mrs L was so upset that she vowed never to return. Where does it end?

 

[bazzer9461]

I think the correct name is the “Evans”.

What about Westley and the 23rd minute dark art

 

[Oxford1996]

I hope certain fans feel the same way about it when we play someone like Wycombe.

As we’ve done it now for the last weeks. (Time wasting, pretending to be injured etc)

 

[Big Ron]

Imagine the indignation if someone like Peterborough did it to us. Yet days later, we all applaud our team doing it vs Pompey.

Oh the irony.

BTW, for clarity, I have no problem at all with us indulging in game management in the professional game.

I don't think most of us were 'indignant', although we were certainly frustrated by the Peterborough antics. I'll save my indignation for the fact that only 6 minutes were added when we should have been looking at 10 to 12.

Also, I wouldn't applaud our behaviour at Portsmouth and Bolton, but it's going to happen if the officials aren't strong enough and managers coach and encourage it. I have some sympathy for the referees as regards injuries, particularly when players are feigning head and face knocks but regularly seeing an added 10+ minutes might have some effect.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Its one of the worst things about ' modern football ' and has crept in to most teams. Hate it.

 

[MarkG]

I think the modern safety culture over player injuries means it’s a loophole that can be exploited to break up play and slow things down.

Have the rules changed to accommodate this ?

I think we’ve done it with goalkeeper injuries / cramp now being an exception to play continuing.

Westley used to have his drinks breaks and team talk.

I didn’t watch the women’s World Cup final but apparently we kept the ball in the corner for the last ten minutes.

I suppose one way is for the ref to keep adding on time. I heard the Charlton Ipswich game originally had 6 minutes added and then ended up ten minutes to finish 4-4.

 

[Big Ron]

I think the modern safety culture over player injuries means it’s a loophole that can be exploited to break up play and slow things down.

Have the rules changed to accommodate this ?

I think we’ve done it with goalkeeper injuries / cramp now being an exception to play continuing.

Westley used to have his drinks breaks and team talk.

I didn’t watch the women’s World Cup final but apparently we kept the ball in the corner for the last ten minutes.

I suppose one way is for the ref to keep adding on time. I heard the Charlton Ipswich game originally had 6 minutes added and then ended up ten minutes to finish 4-4.

I've seen the last 10 minutes of the Charlton v Ipswich game and the ref added time for the first two goals being scored, some time wasting and a substitution ( I think).

 

[brassmonkey]

Easy fix would be to let physios from both teams come on and treat an injured player while play continues. Play only stops if both physios deem it necessary.