Sport New Zealand Test Series

[Big Ron]

25 overs of him doing that though!

That could have been good fun!

 

[Banbury2018]

As a Yorkshire watcher I am not surprised Brook is doing well at test level but didn’t expect him to be this good. I have watched him bat probably more than most on here and at 17 in Yorkshire they said at the same age he was on a par with Joe Root whom it is really pleasing to see back in form.Sometimes it is like watching Joe Root at both ends but one is far more aggressive and has a couple of extra shots in his armour. There is a small possibility that Root Bairstow Brook and Malan plus Lyth could all be available for the first two blast matches. The first of which is the opening double header at Edgbaston on May 20.
Also I would add what a great job Brendan McCullum and Ben Stokes are doing and it’s brilliant to see the Anderson Broad combination taking wickets.

 

[SteMerritt]

The first of which is the opening double header at Edgbaston on May 20.

Oooh thanks for mentioning that, I will put that on my 'potentials' list for cricket this year, didn't realise they were doing a double header. Might be a decent day out.

 

[Foley]

Apparently Brooks's father scored 210 NO in a club game.
Will Brooks beat that?

 

[Banbury2018]

Oooh thanks for mentioning that, I will put that on my 'potentials' list for cricket this year, didn't realise they were doing a double header. Might be a decent day out.

Lancashire vs Derbyshire and Birmingham vs Yorkshire 2.30 and 6.30 start times.

 

[nige01ox]

Harry Brook has the most runs of any player in history through their first 9 innings in test cricket, with 807. He's still not out so could well add a fair few to that at the start of day 2!

I do wonder if the people who are critical of the way England are approaching batting in test cricket are actually watching the matches? Brook didn't go out there and wildly swing from ball 1, it's nothing like that at all. He did counter attack early with a triple boundary over off Southee, to transfer some pressure back on to the NZ bowlers. We were 21-3 on a green seamer so it was really difficult circumstances to come in to, and England teams of recent years would have folded. But then for a fair while he just batted normally along with Root, and the pair were absolutely brilliant at running ones and twos, stopping the bowlers getting a run of balls at one batsman and prevent them from building up much rhythm or working on any plans they had. What I will say though, I have never seen anyone who is so good at finding a boundary when they play an attacking shot as Brook. He never finds the fielder. The power he hits the ball with is immense, with no shortage of timing too. He was 'only' going at a strike rate of about 75-80 when he got his 50 after lunch, then Mitchell bowled 2 full balls to him in a row which ended up in the stand for 6. From then on he put his foot down on NZ's throat, and Root found a bit more fluency too.

NZ got their selection wrong, Mitchell is nowhere near a good enough bowler to be the fourth seamer.

I don't have BT sport, but watched the first 2 sessions on a decent stream if anyone is interested. Day 2 starting at 9:30 this evening due to the time lost with the rain yesterday.

 

[Banbury2018]

Apparently Brooks's father scored 210 NO in a club game.
Will Brooks beat that?

I had only just read that myself when I saw your post.

 

[tonyw]

Just a thought on Bazball. Is it that revolutionary?

Only a few years ago did we have Trevor Bayliss as head coach and that was essentially a version of smash-bang-wallop to get to 300-350 by the end of Day 1. When it worked, it worked. When it didn't, it was appalling. I think England had three sub-100 innings scores in a calendar year at one point - one against Ireland, no less! Aren't we just seeing a better version of that with better players involved? England seem more controlled with it and Harry Brook is a hell of a player.

I can excuse any England fan of forgetting the Bayliss years after having to endure the Silverwood tenure. Most are only just coming out of rehab from those dark days.

I mean - this is true; but scoring 300-350 in a day is what I would call 'traditional Test aggression'. I remember the first day at Edgbaston in 2005, when McGrath stepped on the ball, and then Trescothick, Flintoff & KP went nuts - England scored 407 in a day, and people thought it was one of the most absurd days of Test batting they'd ever seen.

Well the first day of the first Test in Pakistan, England scored 506! We scored 315 yesterday, despite losing the last 25 overs of play and despite Root playing a comparatively sedate innings, especially early on. If we'd been able to bat those final 25 overs (and hadn't lost a bunch of wickets) then we'd have scored 450 in a day minimum.

What we're seeing from the current England side is consistently more aggressive than anything I've seen before in Test cricket.

I fully accept that it's incredibly effective. I fully accept that it's likely to be popular with the masses and lead to bigger crowds.

I'm just saying that I, personally, don't like it. Although I'm sure the ECB couldn't care less at losing a few boring middle-aged traditionalists like me if we keep winning, and it keeps bringing in the crowds.

But then my favourite player when I was growing up was Mike Atherton, I always hated KP and my favourite shot (to play or watch) is an immaculate forward defensive.

 

[tonyw]

He was 'only' going at a strike rate of about 75-80 when he got his 50 after lunch

Brian Lara (still the most gifted batsman I've ever had the pleasure of watching) had a career Test strike rate of 60. Tendulkar was 54.

Harry Brook comes in on a greentop after we've lost three quick wickets and still scores his first 50 off 51 balls.

I admit that I didn't see yesterday's play but you cannot tell me that this is cricket as usual!!

 

[nige01ox]

Brian Lara (still the most gifted batsman I've ever had the pleasure of watching) had a career Test strike rate of 60. Tendulkar was 54.

Harry Brook comes in on a greentop after we've lost three quick wickets and still scores his first 50 off 52 balls.

I admit that I didn't see yesterday's play but you cannot tell me that this is cricket as usual!!

Ok, my apologies, his 50 was a run a ball. He was later 63 from 81 though. What I'm trying to get at is that he is not just gung-ho, which you might think if you simply look at the scorecard. He is watchful when it is needed, but immediately capitalises on anything slightly overpitched or too short. If it's up, it's off. He moves through the gears with consummate ease. Root was playing a far more classical style test innings at the other end, so you would still have enjoyed that!

 

[nige01ox]

But then my favourite player when I was growing up was Mike Atherton, I always hated KP and my favourite shot (to play or watch) is an immaculate forward defensive.

And your favourite colour is beige and breakfast of choice is plain toast ?

Michael Vaughan's cover drive for me all day long.

 

[tonyw]

Ok, my apologies, his 50 was a run a ball. He was later 63 from 81 though. What I'm trying to get at is that he is not just gung-ho, which you might think if you simply look at the scorecard. He is watchful when it is needed, but immediately capitalises on anything slightly overpitched or too short. If it's up, it's off. He moves through the gears with consummate ease. Root was playing a far more classical style test innings at the other end, so you would still have enjoyed that!

OK, I just watched the highlights, and while there were some exquisite cuts and drives, there were three shots within Brook's first 50 that I would describe as ugly t20 heaves. Many more after that, obviously, as he got his eye in and the NZ attack tired. Again, don't blame him for doing it - he's clearly an absolute prodigy, and this is how he's learnt to play. And I wish him another 15,000 Test runs......but each of those three slogs made me feel nothing but revulsion!

But yes, Root's innings was exactly the sort of Test match batting that I love to see. Dogged and determined at the outset. Move through the gears once you're on top.

 

[unification]

And your favourite colour is beige and breakfast of choice is plain toast ?

Michael Vaughan's cover drive for me all day long.

The Duke of Bellington’s for me.

You could hang it in the Louvre.

 

[Big Ron]

OK, I just watched the highlights, and while there were some exquisite cuts and drives, there were three shots within Brook's first 50 that I would describe as ugly t20 heaves. Many more after that, obviously, as he got his eye in and the NZ attack tired. Again, don't blame him for doing it - he's clearly an absolute prodigy, and this is how he's learnt to play. And I wish him another 15,000 Test runs......but each of those three slogs made me feel nothing but revulsion!

But yes, Root's innings was exactly the sort of Test match batting that I love to see. Dogged and determined at the outset. Move through the gears once you're on top.

Oh come on Tony, the 'revulsion' comment is purist nonsense. We sometimes wince when a hoick is made but you talk as if it's never been done before.

 

[Leysboy]

I’d rather see a batsman have a go at a bowler, if the ball needs to be walloped away then do it. Not just play conservatively and nudge a few 1’s and 2’s and the odd boundary every half hour. Although it’s important to try and rotate the strike as much as possible. Especially when you have a lefty and righty in the middle. It disrupts the bowlers, and captain. Chopping and changing the fielding positions, and the bowlers changing line and length to specific plans.

Virender Sehwag springs to mind. I think he was a very ultra aggressive batsman, and he scored a lot of runs playing that way.

I do like the long drawn out test matches, but this England side are probably the only ones right now that are capable of playing this way, and scoring 500 in a days play. I don’t even think India or Australia would try playing this way. It’s exciting, and it will get bums on seats. At the same time, we have to expect it to fail from time to time. Right now though let’s embrace it and enjoy it.

 

[tonyw]

Oh come on Tony, the 'revulsion' comment is purist nonsense. We sometimes wince when a hoick is made but you talk as if it's never been done before.

OK, let me try and illustrate my point. Here's the highlights from yesterday's play:

I'm going to talk about the three balls from ~1:10 onwards. Reminder - the score is 29-3 on a greentop, and he's batting against a guy who has 350+ Test wickets.

The first shot is exquisite. A gorgeous cover drive of the highest order. Perfectly controlled. Astonishing timing.
The second is a rubbish long-hop from Southee that he puts away well
It's the third that gets me. He comes charging down the pitch and has a wild, uncontrolled swipe at a straight good-length ball. Because his hand-eye coordination is so good, he middles it and smites it. But it's not a high percentage shot - and again, it's being played inside the first hour of a Test match on a lively pitch.

That shot, especially given its context, is (for me) the difference between normal, aggressive Test cricket and Bazball.
And to repeat myself - I'm not saying it's the wrong approach. It's almost certainly absolutely the right way to go in the modern game, given the skillset that young players develop nowadays.
Just saying that I hate it.
(though I might hate the 'Back Away followed by cross-batted heave' at 2:27 even more. The fact that Brook is capable of playing glorious conventional strokes makes his 'Stuart Broad on an angry day' baseball swings even uglier somehow)

 

[tonyw]

Virender Sehwag springs to mind. I think he was a very ultra aggressive batsman, and he scored a lot of runs playing that way.

Sehwag's strike rate over his whole Test career was 82. That's the third highest in Test history for players who've scored at least 1000 runs.
(the highest ever is Shahid Afridi at just a lick under 87 - the only other three over 75 in Test history are Adam Gilchrist, Graeme Swann(?!?) and, ironically, Tim Southee)

Harry Brook has kicked off his Test career with a SR of 99.38.
So very soon (hopefully), he's going to be standing at the top of that list by a very long way. He's playing a whole different ballgame from anyone that's come before!

 

[SteMerritt]

OK, let me try and illustrate my point. Here's the highlights from yesterday's play:

I'm going to talk about the three balls from ~1:10 onwards. Reminder - the score is 29-3 on a greentop, and he's batting against a guy who has 350+ Test wickets.

The first shot is exquisite. A gorgeous cover drive of the highest order. Perfectly controlled. Astonishing timing.
The second is a rubbish long-hop from Southee that he puts away well
It's the third that gets me. He comes charging down the pitch and has a wild, uncontrolled swipe at a straight good-length ball. Because his hand-eye coordination is so good, he middles it and smites it. But it's not a high percentage shot - and again, it's being played inside the first hour of a Test match on a lively pitch.

That shot, especially given its context, is (for me) the difference between normal, aggressive Test cricket and Bazball.
And to repeat myself - I'm not saying it's the wrong approach. It's almost certainly absolutely the right way to go in the modern game, given the skillset that young players develop nowadays.
Just saying that I hate it.
(though I might hate the 'Back Away followed by cross-batted heave' at 2:27 even more. The fact that Brook is capable of playing glorious conventional strokes makes his 'Stuart Broad on an angry day' baseball swings even uglier somehow)

That cover drive on the move from Pope was shot of the day though. Gorgeous.

 

[Leysboy]

Sehwag's strike rate over his whole Test career was 82. That's the third highest in Test history for players who've scored at least 1000 runs.
(the highest ever is Shahid Afridi at just a lick under 87 - the only other three over 75 in Test history are Adam Gilchrist, Graeme Swann(?!?) and, ironically, Tim Southee)

Harry Brook has kicked off his Test career with a SR of 99.38.
So very soon (hopefully), he's going to be standing at the top of that list by a very long way. He's playing a whole different ballgame from anyone that's come before!

Sehwag had to be up there. I remember him scoring a couple of 300’s against South Africa and Pakistan.

He also hit a brilliant 195 at the MCG after being hit on the helmet 3 times.

 

[Big Ron]

OK, let me try and illustrate my point. Here's the highlights from yesterday's play:

I'm going to talk about the three balls from ~1:10 onwards. Reminder - the score is 29-3 on a greentop, and he's batting against a guy who has 350+ Test wickets.

The first shot is exquisite. A gorgeous cover drive of the highest order. Perfectly controlled. Astonishing timing.
The second is a rubbish long-hop from Southee that he puts away well
It's the third that gets me. He comes charging down the pitch and has a wild, uncontrolled swipe at a straight good-length ball. Because his hand-eye coordination is so good, he middles it and smites it. But it's not a high percentage shot - and again, it's being played inside the first hour of a Test match on a lively pitch.

That shot, especially given its context, is (for me) the difference between normal, aggressive Test cricket and Bazball.
And to repeat myself - I'm not saying it's the wrong approach. It's almost certainly absolutely the right way to go in the modern game, given the skillset that young players develop nowadays.
Just saying that I hate it.
(though I might hate the 'Back Away followed by cross-batted heave' at 2:27 even more. The fact that Brook is capable of playing glorious conventional strokes makes his 'Stuart Broad on an angry day' baseball swings even uglier somehow)

I take the point, you’re not the only person to enjoy a stylish attacking shot as much as a resolute defensive technique. Most of the people on this thread watch and know a little bit about cricket - we’re also fans.

However, ‘revulsion’ and ‘hate’ are ridiculously over the top. ‘Ugly’ is certainly true and that’s a term that could be applied over the years. In fact two of the most successful batters of recent years - Smith’s Graham and Steve - have ugly, very personal techniques. Not ugly in a Broad manner but not especially pleasing on the eye.