National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[Marked Ox]

Busted... I'll get told off for thread deviation again at this rate...

Nothing to do with me Guv.....

 

[LowerSouth]

Cat's treats now not available on this week's shop. This s**t's just got real!!

Meow

 

[bazzer9461]

There are plenty of House Cats in this country. Just give them things they can entertain/amuse themselves with.

As for the defecating in other people's gardens, that is absolute rubbish. I'll get a dog and take it to crap on your garden on a daily (2 walks at least) basis, I'm sure you wouldn't be happy. Alternatively I'll throw the cat crap all over the cat owners garden, regardless of whether it is their cats', they won't be happy. Why should I have to suffer other people's pets issues in my garden because a cat owner is too lazy to train their cat properly?

I know what your saying but unless you know who own the cats tragically bothered not a lot you can do about it
I don’t have any pets but if you was to walk your dog twice a day to crap in my garden you would receive it back with interest.
But alas the amount of times that I’ve gone out and seen dog crap not picked up goes to show how many irresponsible people there are.

 

[Oslernorth]

Dog crap all over the streets and local playing fields was far more acceptable before we joined the EEC.
Then bang! Thanks to those pesky europeans, WE’RE the ones picking it all up!!

 

[Marked Ox]

I don’t have any pets but if you was to walk your dog twice a day to crap in my garden you would receive it back with interest.

That is my point, cat owners are selfish saying it is the nature of cats. Cats can be trained to use a litter tray from young but that involves the owners putting in some effort (not all owners are like this though). The house behind may well be getting the cat poo jettisoned into their garden if it continues.

 

[bazzer9461]

That is my point, cat owners are selfish saying it is the nature of cats. Cats can be trained to use a litter tray from young but that involves the owners putting in some effort (not all owners are like this though). The house behind may well be getting the cat poo jettisoned into their garden if it continues.

The thing is though cat litter is only for when they are young as they will get out as they get older off course you will still have a cat litter tray but when they are out nature does have a say so to speak.

 

[Marked Ox]

The thing is though cat litter is only for when they are young as they will get out as they get older off course you will still have a cat litter tray but when they are out nature does have a say so to speak.

I know of a fair few cats that only use a litter tray. Again it isn't nature, cat owners need to train their cat or better keep it as a house cat. Alternatively they could electrify any fence so the cat gets a shock if it tries to leave its garden so craps there only and protects neighbours' gardens from the owner's selfishness.

It isn't nature as they are an invasive species.

 

[bazzer9461]

I know of a fair few cats that only use a litter tray. Again it isn't nature, cat owners need to train their cat or better keep it as a house cat. Alternatively they could electrify any fence so the cat gets a shock if it tries to leave its garden so craps there only and protects neighbours' gardens from the owner's selfishness.

It isn't nature as they are an invasive species.

Bloody moggies

 

[Ian]

If you want a very condensed view....

What we joined was a simple trade group.
What it became was far more.
My personal choice was primarily based on that.

It was NOT based on "sending foreign labour home" or such like.
The electorate had been let down by many governments not putting our case strongly enough and had not had the chance to express their displeasure.

Never mind what the UK joined... Let's talk about what the UK created whilst is was a member of the EEC. The UK was responsible for the creation of the Single Market and Customs Union. Be patriotic, be proud of this, because they are the envy of many around the world. In order to create these successful systems, a single set of rules was required, and these rules needed to inclusive and agreed democratically - and hence the creation of the EU and the European Parliament.

So, in fact your personal choice was anti-British and incredibly unpatriotic. #Shame

 

[Essexyellows]

Never mind what the UK joined... Let's talk about what the UK created whilst is was a member of the EEC. The UK was responsible for the creation of the Single Market and Customs Union. Be patriotic, be proud of this, because they are the envy of many around the world. In order to create these successful systems, a single set of rules was required, and these rules needed to inclusive and agreed democratically - and hence the creation of the EU and the European Parliament.

So, in fact your personal choice was anti-British and incredibly unpatriotic. #Shame

The Common Market was a good thing.
The Customs Union was actually developed by the EEC in 1958.
The Single Market we do have paternity rights for.

Unfortunately "one size fits all" for everything else will never work.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

The Common Market was a good thing.
The Customs Union was actually developed by the EEC in 1958.
The Single Market we do have paternity rights for.

Unfortunately "one size fits all" for everything else will never work.

All a matter of scale and flexibility within those rules though. You could assign the same logic to...the 4 nations of the UK....or even down to a regional level within England itself. It all depends on what "rough" you are prepared to take with all the smooth that Union gives us.

A bit like the Tories carping on for years that they had no control over immigration because of the EU when in fact they could've done much. much more, but chose to hide behind the smokescreen of "EU rules innit". The reality is/was, that flexibility did exist

I don't think anybody has ever claimed the EU was perfect....far, far from it, but the bigger problem with such a dogmatic, fundamentalist attitude to the European Union and getting out at all cost is that you end up throwing out all the benefits with the stuff you don't like (or the stuff that you been pretending is a big deal for decades - see above). And the very fact that we chose to send shysters and spivs like Farage to sit on his fat a**e in Brussels doing absolutely nothing constructive or of benefit to the UK or the EU (he was our rep on the EU fisheries committee..guess how many meetings he attended...?), whilst collecting a huge wad of our cash and making us look like a bunch of fools into the bargain, just shows that we've been prepared to sh1t on our own doorstep for decades.

We've been making this bed for a long while and whilst our faux indignation with "being dictated to by Brussels" (whipped up by people like our very own Prime Minister over that period, lest we forget) has given way to some perverse triumphalism in some quarters at some yet to be determined and overwhelmingly pyrrhic victory, we're still here with the same problems and no sign of any solutions (can-kicking on NIP and the MASSIVE fan fare about "huge" deals with Australia and NZ tells you all you need to know). And into that bargain we have certainly created a much damaged relationship with our largest market and closest neighbour, as well as carrying and air of mistrust with other potential global trading partners, who've seen just how willing we are to rip up, ignore and squirm our way out of agreements and deals.

Ah well....not really surprising with our depressingly frequent willingness to elect and be led by shysters and spivs.

 

[Essexyellows]

All a matter of scale and flexibility within those rules though. You could assign the same logic to...the 4 nations of the UK....or even down to a regional level within England itself. It all depends on what "rough" you are prepared to take with all the smooth that Union gives us.

A bit like the Tories carping on for years that they had no control over immigration because of the EU when in fact they could've done much. much more, but chose to hide behind the smokescreen of "EU rules innit". The reality is/was, that flexibility did exist

I don't think anybody has ever claimed the EU was perfect....far, far from it, but the bigger problem with such a dogmatic, fundamentalist attitude to the European Union and getting out at all cost is that you end up throwing out all the benefits with the stuff you don't like (or the stuff that you been pretending is a big deal for decades - see above). And the very fact that we chose to send shysters and spivs like Farage to sit on his fat a**e in Brussels doing absolutely nothing constructive or of benefit to the UK or the EU (he was our rep on the EU fisheries committee..guess how many meetings he attended...?), whilst collecting a huge wad of our cash and making us look like a bunch of fools into the bargain, just shows that we've been prepared to sh1t on our own doorstep for decades.

We've been making this bed for a long while and whilst our faux indignation with "being dictated to by Brussels" (whipped up by people like our very own Prime Minister over that period, lest we forget) has given way to some perverse triumphalism in some quarters at some yet to be determined and overwhelmingly pyrrhic victory, we're still here with the same problems and no sign of any solutions (can-kicking on NIP and the MASSIVE fan fare about "huge" deals with Australia and NZ tells you all you need to know). And into that bargain we have certainly created a much damaged relationship with our largest market and closest neighbour, as well as carrying and air of mistrust with other trading global partners, who've seen just how willing we are to rip up, ignore and squirm our way out of agreements and deals.

Ah well....not really surprising with our depressingly frequent willingness to elect and be led by shysters and spivs.

A good summary.
What would have solved many of the EU/UK problems would have been to equate voting power to contributions.
Then those 10 net contributors would have had more leverage than the 18 who are net beneficiaries
Probably goes against the ethos of the club but there we go.

Interesting factoid...... EU deficit for 2020 was a minor 924.88 billion euros.
The UK deficit was £303 billion.

Numbers on spreadsheets thats all it is....

 

[Sheik djibouti]

A good summary.
What would have solved many of the EU/UK problems would have been to equate voting power to contributions.
Then those 10 net contributors would have had more leverage than the 18 who are net beneficiaries
Probably goes against the ethos of the club but there we go.

Interesting factoid...... EU deficit for 2020 was a minor 924.88 billion euros.
The UK deficit was £303 billion.

Numbers on spreadsheets thats all it is....

Is that EU as an entity or the sovereign debt held by each nation in the EU?

And I agree about numbers on a spreadsheet, which is what makes the perpetual government con about having to raise taxes BEFORE committing to spending all the more perplexing. money can (and always has) been found or "created" if the government REALLY want to do something.

#looks up definition of FIAT currency#

 

[QR]

What would have solved many of the EU/UK problems would have been to equate voting power to contributions.
Then those 10 net contributors would have had more leverage than the 18 who are net beneficiaries

Would that seem fair to you as a principle if applied at the next UK General election? The more tax you pay the more votes you get?

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Would that seem fair to you as a principle if applied at the next UK General election? The more tax you pay the more votes you get?

Alternative Universe-level means testing

 

[Essexyellows]

Would that seem fair to you as a principle if applied at the next UK General election? The more tax you pay the more votes you get?

No it wouldn`t, but I`m not (currently) seeking to annex our road from the City.

However in the realms of "A Big Club" those that put the most in should have a more weighted say in the decisions.

As it stands the mix of qualified majority, simple majority and veto, depending on what is being voted on, can leave Countries isolated irrespective of the good they do.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

No it wouldn`t, but I`m not (currently) seeking to annex our road from the City.

However in the realms of "A Big Club" those that put the most in should have a more weighted say in the decisions.

As it stands the mix of qualified majority, simple majority and veto, depending on what is being voted on, can leave Countries isolated irrespective of the good they do.

All depends on the rules of the club.

Presumably when the principle of one nation one (equal) vote was mooted way back when, we either supported or objected/vetoed it.

As we clearly didn't do the latter, I can only assume that we accepted the principle.

Seems like a messed-up version of your tired old "blokes buying a beer in the pub" analogy. IE - "we paid more for the round, therefore we will TELL you what you are going to drink....and you can only have a half a shandy...bitter-top at a push!"

AS a complete aside, but relevant I guess to Brexit and the EU. It was nice to see on my travels this summer that several places in the UK were clearly displaying signs telling me that the re-opening of High Streets etc was being supported by the European Recovery Development Fund. Not only that, but lots and lots of those lovely barriers and clear signage to make sure you kept 2m apart/worse a mask/caught your coughs and sneezes etc, were ALSO funded by the EDRF.

Nice to see they didn't abandon us in our hour of need

 

[Essexyellows]

All depends on the rules of the club.

Presumably when the principle of one nation one (equal) vote was mooted way back when, we either supported or objected/vetoed it.

As we clearly didn't do the latter, I can only assume that we accepted the principle.

Seems like a messed-up of your tired old "blokes buying a beer in the pub" analogy. IE - "we paid more for the round, therefore we will TELL you what you are going to drink....and you can only have a half a shandy...bitter-top at a push!"

AS a complete aside, but relevant I guess to Brexit and the EU. It was nice to see on my travels this summer that several places in the UK were clearly displaying signs telling me that the re-opening of High Streets etc was being supported by the European Recovery Development Fund. Not only that, but lots and lots of those lovely barriers and clear signage to make sure you kept 2m apart/worse a mask/caught your coughs and sneezes etc, were ALSO funded by the EDRF.

Nice to see they didn't abandon us in our hour of need

Schemes that had already started won`t stop until their "expiry date" and any handover from the EU to HMG will be gradual.
New schemes will source alternative funding and the government can still utilise the EIB.
More here: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7847/CBP-7847.pdf

 

[QR]

"They need us more than we need them"

"Of course they do sir. Now can you please go back to your room and take your medication"

BBC News - UK on course to drop from Germany's top 10 trading partners

UK on course to drop from Germany's top 10 trading partners

Customs rules take their toll as German companies swap UK suppliers for alternatives in the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Essexyellows]

"They need us more than we need them"

"Of course they do sir. Now can you please go back to your room and take your medication"

BBC News - UK on course to drop from Germany's top 10 trading partners

UK on course to drop from Germany's top 10 trading partners

Customs rules take their toll as German companies swap UK suppliers for alternatives in the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

Business changes as do transactions between them. Also note we have been in their Top Ten since 1950 which was rather before the EU or EEC.
And in the linked BBC article from March it says..........

"Certainly, the slowdown is not simply about post-Brexit trade rules.
The coronavirus pandemic has played a role in reducing trade flows.
German imports worldwide were down nearly 10% year-on-year in January, and exports down 8%.
There is also another issue specific to the UK.
A large amount of stockpiling took place in December, as businesses prepared for possible disruption in advance of Britain leaving the single market and the customs union."

Brexit: Why has UK trade with Germany fallen so dramatically?

Official statistics show a huge drop in trade during the first month of the new EU-UK relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk