Sport Pakistan Test Series

[Sarge]

Great victory - maybe we could have applied a bit more of the game situation in our 2nd innings given the time left in the game - but hopefully doing wonders for the level of interest in Test cricket worldwide.

be even more interest (in Test Cricket) if England test matches had terrestrial TV coverage

 

[Foley]

Interesting that only 8 of the 20 Pakistan wickets went to spin.
If only we could get a top quality spinner (Leach has done well but isn't top quality)
The picking if Wood was spot on and the seamers all did well.
The Australian series next year will be very interesting

 

[Leysboy]

I’d like to see the selectors go for Parkinson. Let’s see what he can do at test level. Rashid and Ali won’t play test cricket again, so we have to look for someone else.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

be even more interest (in Test Cricket) if England test matches had terrestrial TV coverage

Agreed - if the powers that be who run English cricket had any sense they’d get this Stokes team on free to air TV as quickly as possible, if England won an Ashes series playing like this on terrestrial TV it could massively reignite interest in test cricket in this country

 

[Big Ron]

I’d like to see the selectors go for Parkinson. Let’s see what he can do at test level. Rashid and Ali won’t play test cricket again, so we have to look for someone else.

I've seen a bit of Parkinson and I'm note sure he either spins the ball enough on a consistent basis or has sufficient variation - still, you'd think that he will come into McCullum and Stokes sights.

It's not just about attacking, our spinners don't seem to be able to exercise control and hold an end down.

I wonder if they will take a look at Rehan Ahmed or is he just on tour for the experience.

 

[Big Ron]

Agreed - if the powers that be who run English cricket had any sense they’d get this Stokes team on free to air TV as quickly as possible, if England won an Ashes series playing like this on terrestrial TV it could massively reignite interest in test cricket in this country

The opportunity was lost after the 2005 Ashes - the Channel 4 audiences were huge by cricket standards and the next summer we were back to what, by all accounts, were a couple of hundred thousand Sky subscribers.

 

[Marked Ox]

I’d like to see the selectors go for Parkinson. Let’s see what he can do at test level. Rashid and Ali won’t play test cricket again, so we have to look for someone else.

I think young spinner Rehan Ahmed is on the tour, could be just for experience but that doesn't strike me as an approach McCullum/Stokes would go with. Maybe that they are looking at him as the next on the rank so to speak. Also, Stokes seems a real fan of Jack Leach.

 

[Foley]

Why not give a game to Rehan Ahmed?
The series is won and if he struggles, Root is always there and is pretty reliable.
He won't get better experience than playing in Pakistan.

 

[tonyw]

We’ve not had a consistent spinner since Graeme Swann.

I'd argue that Swann is the only consistent, World Class spinner that we've had in my cricket-watching lifetime which began in the mid-80s!

At some point, I think you just have to accept that it's pretty damn tough to be a spin bowler coming through in England and that until another anomaly like Swann appears, England needs to win with seam (as we just have done, spectacularly). And just have our spinner serve as a mostly change of pace or defensive option - and hopefully be able to bat a bit as well.

In that respect, Leach is noone's idea of a world-beater, but he's got as good a record as any other non-Swann England spin bowler in the past forty years. He's not been great this series, but would be harsh to drop him unless you really believed there was someone special coming through.

 

[Foley]

I'd argue that Swann is the only consistent, World Class spinner that we've had in my cricket-watching lifetime which began in the mid-80s!

At some point, I think you just have to accept that it's pretty damn tough to be a spin bowler coming through in England and that until another anomaly like Swann appears, England needs to win with seam (as we just have done, spectacularly). And just have our spinner serve as a mostly change of pace or defensive option - and hopefully be able to bat a bit as well.

In that respect, Leach is noone's idea of a world-beater, but he's got as good a record as any other non-Swann England spin bowler in the past forty years. He's not been great this series, but would be harsh to drop him unless you really believed there was someone special coming through.

You are right, but the selectors snd England need to encourage and try their best to get somebody better than Leach ( it is often not possible to win on the sub continent with just seam)
Rehang Ahmed is clearly hoped to be a good spin option going forwards. It often doesn't work out how everybody hopes, but with Stokes' magic wand who knows?

 

[SteMerritt]

I'd argue that Swann is the only consistent, World Class spinner that we've had in my cricket-watching lifetime which began in the mid-80s!

I go back a touch further than you, I can remember Edmunds and Emburey being brought on in tandem during Test Matches, they were both defensive spinners and it signalled England trying to contain the opposition, we've certainly not had anyone remotely like Swann.

 

[tonyw]

I mean Rehan Ahmed is an 18 year-old kid who's played three first class games in his life.

Unless the selectors believe that he is a really special talent who's ready to go.....then throwing him into a game in the sub-continent against a bunch of Pakistani batsmen that eat spin for breakfast could very easily do a lot more harm than good.

Plus, it's now all about the Ashes. It would take a very rare Shane Warne-sized talent to cope with the pressure that that brings as a teenager. It seems extremely unlikely to me that Leach isn't our spin option for the first Test in June (our only games before then are in New Zealand and against Ireland in the early summer, when we might not even want to play a spinner)......so do we really want to mess with his head now by dropping him for a game?

 

[Sarge]

I mean Rehan Ahmed is an 18 year-old kid who's played three first class games in his life.

Unless the selectors believe that he is a really special talent who's ready to go.....then throwing him into a game in the sub-continent against a bunch of Pakistani batsmen that eat spin for breakfast could very easily do a lot more harm than good.

Plus, it's now all about the Ashes. It would take a very rare Shane Warne-sized talent to cope with the pressure that that brings as a teenager. It seems extremely unlikely to me that Leach isn't our spin option for the first Test in June (our only games before then are in New Zealand and against Ireland in the early summer, when we might not even want to play a spinner)......so do we really want to mess with his head now by dropping him for a game?

wasnt Warne 'rather young' when he made his debut for the convicts?

 

[SteMerritt]

I mean Rehan Ahmed is an 18 year-old kid who's played three first class games in his life.

Unless the selectors believe that he is a really special talent who's ready to go.....then throwing him into a game in the sub-continent against a bunch of Pakistani batsmen that eat spin for breakfast could very easily do a lot more harm than good.

The Mason Crane effect.

 

[tonyw]

wasnt Warne 'rather young' when he made his debut for the convicts?

Yeah, but he wasn't a teenager. 22, I think. And the summer of his first Ashes, and the Gatting ball, he turned 24.

 

[Mike_H]

I go back a touch further than you, I can remember Edmunds and Emburey being brought on in tandem during Test Matches, they were both defensive spinners and it signalled England trying to contain the opposition, we've certainly not had anyone remotely like Swann.

Derek "Deadly" Underwood for me, though he bowled at approaching medium pace sometimes. Caught Knott bowled Underwood, those were the days.

 

[Big Ron]

Swann was certainly in a league of his own over the past 40 year - sure, he benefited from a change in the LBW law but he was a clever bowler who had flight and drift. Apart from 255 wickets in 60 tests, he also had a really good strike rate and was handy with the bat, averaging 22. An an aside, he's generally a commentator I can't listen too as he thinks he's really funny - he isn't. I suspect 'bants' is a word regularly used by Swann.

The rest have been much of a muchness - Monty managed 167 in 50, similar to Leach's current rate of 103 in 31. Leach is also a better batsman and fielder than Monty - in fact, so was I. Giles was 143 in 50 but his average about 6 more per wicket - he was, however, a better batsman (averaging 21) and fielder.

What I'm saying is that Leach is not the medium or long term answer - he bowls too many bad balls and given the current attacking fields, is going to concede too many. Because he's often withdrawn from the attack he bowls less overs per game than the likes of Monty, Giles, or even Emburey and Edmonds - something like 45% less.

 

[tonyw]

What I'm saying is that Leach is not the medium or long term answer - he bowls too many bad balls and given the current attacking fields, is going to concede too many. Because he's often withdrawn from the attack he bowls less overs per game than the likes of Monty, Giles, or even Emburey and Edmonds - something like 45% less.

I think that might be true - but right now, with the Ashes coming up, it's the short term that matters most. Medium and Long term thinking is what you do just after the Ashes are over!

Leach has a respectable-if-not-great record against the Aussies (including a fine history of 1* innings). He's not going to be great, but he could be Giles-in-'05-style useful. A few big wickets and he doesn't kill you.

Just don't see that there's time to blood anyone else before June with any confidence (unless, as I mentioned, Stokes and McCullum have good reason to believe that Ahmed or someone else is the next Swann in terms of talent and has the temperament to cope)

 

[Foley]

I mean Rehan Ahmed is an 18 year-old kid who's played three first class games in his life.

Unless the selectors believe that he is a really special talent who's ready to go.....then throwing him into a game in the sub-continent against a bunch of Pakistani batsmen that eat spin for breakfast could very easily do a lot more harm than good.

Plus, it's now all about the Ashes. It would take a very rare Shane Warne-sized talent to cope with the pressure that that brings as a teenager. It seems extremely unlikely to me that Leach isn't our spin option for the first Test in June (our only games before then are in New Zealand and against Ireland in the early summer, when we might not even want to play a spinner)......so do we really want to mess with his head now by dropping him for a game?

Fair point but it depends on how well he is thought of
Warne had played vwey few first class games and Ahmed for Pakistan ditto
Warne of course had a very poor start but they stuck with him ( many England captsins wouldn't have done)
The good thing is that I think Stokes will stick with his spinners unlike Root for example.
We need an option. If Leach was injured who is next in line? Bess? Parkinson? Root?

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

An an aside, he's generally a commentator I can't listen too as he thinks he's really funny - he isn't. I suspect 'bants' is a word regularly used by Swann.

Oh I agree - great bowler, awful person.