National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Essexyellows]

Yes the good old "what ifs" like we need more uncertainty!!

Then we get into constitutional law......

"Rodney Brazier argues that the ‘only circumstances in which the withholding of royal assent might be justifiable would be where the Government itself were to advise such a course’ (de Smith & Brazier Constitutional and Administrative Law 127). Brazier’s says elsewhere (LQR 2013) that ministers might advise the Queen to refuse assent where ‘a private member’s bill had passed both Houses, perhaps on a free vote but which ministers opposed’. Twomey suggests that this scenario is ‘more likely to arise in a hung Parliament’ (624).

Twomey also points out that Lindell ‘has given some of the closest attention to this issue’ and he makes the important point that in the end parliament ‘can move a vote of no confidence’ if assent is refused. Further, Lindell ‘recognises the potential clash between’ representative and responsible government but Twomey makes clear that, in her view, the confidence of parliament is key, arguing that ‘ministers must maintain their status as responsible to Parliament in order to be entitled to give that advice’ (625). This must be right. The doctrine of confidence is one of the absolutely core doctrines of the UK political constitution. "

Robert Craig: Could the Government Advise the Queen to Refuse Royal Assent to a Backbench Bill?

Introduction As is well known, the Government’s Withdrawal Agreement was voted down in Parliament last week by 230 votes in a ‘meaningful vote’ mandated under s 13(1) of European Withdrawal Act 201…

ukconstitutionallaw.org

 

[Marked Ox]

Yes the good old "what ifs" like we need more uncertainty!!

Then we get into constitutional law......

"Rodney Brazier argues that the ‘only circumstances in which the withholding of royal assent might be justifiable would be where the Government itself were to advise such a course’ (de Smith & Brazier Constitutional and Administrative Law 127). Brazier’s says elsewhere (LQR 2013) that ministers might advise the Queen to refuse assent where ‘a private member’s bill had passed both Houses, perhaps on a free vote but which ministers opposed’. Twomey suggests that this scenario is ‘more likely to arise in a hung Parliament’ (624).

Twomey also points out that Lindell ‘has given some of the closest attention to this issue’ and he makes the important point that in the end parliament ‘can move a vote of no confidence’ if assent is refused. Further, Lindell ‘recognises the potential clash between’ representative and responsible government but Twomey makes clear that, in her view, the confidence of parliament is key, arguing that ‘ministers must maintain their status as responsible to Parliament in order to be entitled to give that advice’ (625). This must be right. The doctrine of confidence is one of the absolutely core doctrines of the UK political constitution. "

Robert Craig: Could the Government Advise the Queen to Refuse Royal Assent to a Backbench Bill?

Introduction As is well known, the Government’s Withdrawal Agreement was voted down in Parliament last week by 230 votes in a ‘meaningful vote’ mandated under s 13(1) of European Withdrawal Act 201…

ukconstitutionallaw.org

How much you can trust the comment is open to debate but Johnson/UKGov has said previously they won't block the bill's assent.

 

[Sarge]

breaking news ....

Boris Johnson to suspend Parliament today for more than a month despite Brexit crisis

Decision to close the doors of Westminster until 14 October means the prime minister will avoid a double grilling by MPs on Wednesday

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Sarge]

 

[Sarge]

speaks volumes ? ....

Brexit negotiating team shrinks to only four staff

The Europe unit which had led negotiations for a Brexit deal with Brussels has been disbanded by Boris Johnson.The civil servants who worked in the Cabinet Office under Olly Robbins, Theresa May’s chief Brexit negotiator, are all thought to have been redeployed to other government departments. The T

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Gary Baldi]

It was interesting to see the the concept of Boris vetoing the appointment of a new EU commissioner as it requires all 28 countries agreement/addition, thus stopping the ability of the EU to offer an extension as it is not governing, leaving the UK to crash out. I wonder if Gina Miller will strop off to another court if that happens?

I did laugh at the Tories running a candidate against the poison dwarf in the coming election. Back at ya Bercow! I'm not sorry to see Rudd stand down -she's spent the last 3 years horribly flip flopping around whoever gives her the chance to power and has very little credibility left in the Tory party. Plus she knows she is in a marginal seat and will get booted out.

I think there is an underestimation of how fed up people are out of the Westminster bubble of Brexit - the biggest issue in all this. Leavers like me wanted a deal, but are so utterly fed up of the filibustering, disrespect and lies, that No Deal will mean we can move on. I see no plan for what kicking the can down the road for 3 months will do or a process for communicating it to businesses. It's pointless tokenism.

The Remain zeal for stopping Brexit is making the country disappear down a big black hole and the harm they moan about is coming to the country anyway. It just shows what happens when people think they are better than others I suppose.

 

[m]

It was interesting to see the the concept of Boris vetoing the appointment of a new EU commissioner as it requires all 28 countries agreement/addition, thus stopping the ability of the EU to offer an extension as it is not governing, leaving the UK to crash out. I wonder if Gina Miller will strop off to another court if that happens?

I did laugh at the Tories running a candidate against the poison dwarf in the coming election. Back at ya Bercow! I'm not sorry to see Rudd stand down -she's spent the last 3 years horribly flip flopping around whoever gives her the chance to power and has very little credibility left in the Tory party. Plus she knows she is in a marginal seat and will get booted out.

I think there is an underestimation of how fed up people are out of the Westminster bubble of Brexit - the biggest issue in all this. Leavers like me wanted a deal, but are so utterly fed up of the filibustering, disrespect and lies, that No Deal will mean we can move on. I see no plan for what kicking the can down the road for 3 months will do or a process for communicating it to businesses. It's pointless tokenism.

The Remain zeal for stopping Brexit is making the country disappear down a big black hole and the harm they moan about is coming to the country anyway. It just shows what happens when people think they are better than others I suppose.

I agree with some of what you have written.

To re-make an important point already made though; Brexiteers were key in rejecting the deal already agreed which imo renders your closing paragraph entirely redundant.

 

[tonyw]

It is an absolute shambles, and both sides of the Brexit/Leave divide in parliament are to blame.

I guess we're going to have a five-week breather from it all now, because without parliament sitting and without the government properly negotiating with Brussels, then nothing is going to change until they come back in mid-October.

Then I suspect we'll see two scraps:
1) BoJo and co. will have found some way of legally working around the No Deal extension bill; the Remain side will then go to court to force them to adhere to it and will end up with the insane situation of the UK Supreme Court having to rule on whether or not Britain asks the EU for a Brexit extension, and

2) An election will finally be triggered - either by BoJo himself or via a No Confidence vote - and the electors will finally get their say on the issue, only several months later than it should have been.

 

[Marked Ox]

It is an absolute shambles, and both sides of the Brexit/Leave divide in parliament are to blame.

I guess we're going to have a five-week breather from it all now, because without parliament sitting and without the government properly negotiating with Brussels, then nothing is going to change until they come back in mid-October.

Then I suspect we'll see two scraps:
1) BoJo and co. will have found some way of legally working around the No Deal extension bill; the Remain side will then go to court to force them to adhere to it and will end up with the insane situation of the UK Supreme Court having to rule on whether or not Britain asks the EU for a Brexit extension, and

2) An election will finally be triggered - either by BoJo himself or via a No Confidence vote - and the electors will finally get their say on the issue, only several months later than it should have been.

On 1, according to the BBC legal expert on Politics Live there isn't a way round for Johnson on the legislation, although Steve Baker tried claiming the Kinnock clause gave a reason which the legal expert disagreed with. The expert also said the suggestion of sending a 2nd letter saying ignore the 1st letter wouldn't be legal. That said based on the Govt's comments, they will be looking at every which way possible and there may be a chink for them to utilise. But all of the legal experts I've seen so far suggest that if Johnson tries, he will lose in Court. If he can get an ally in the EU27 to block agreement for an extension from the EU then it would render the UK side of the equation as irrelevant obviously.

On 2, from what I was reading, then the earliest the GE could come is late November.

Oh and Bercow has announced he is resigning.

 

[carefreeoufc]

Looks like we’ll be getting a chance to see what was in the Operation Yellowhammer report over the coming days (or what’s left of it).

Grieve motion wins 311-302

 

[carefreeoufc]

Expect that to be challenged by human rights lawyers galore, probably quoting the EU's own privacy rules!

They may (ironically) challenge the release of communications but I see absolutely no reason why they’d be able to challenge the release of Operation Yellowhammer particularly when Gove said he was going to share it publicly.

Nothing will surprise me though.

 

[Essexyellows]

And breath.....................................................

Nice to see Parliament experiencing what the people have for the last 3 years. Frustration and not knowing what is going on.

And, as a bonus, Bercow got flushed out for what he is neither impartial or unbiased.

Releasing OY documents will achieve nothing, it contains worst case & best case scenarios, the Leave side will say it proves everything will be fine, the Remain side will liken it to the Four Horsemen with death & destitution on the streets.

The public sector, despite all the bluster, have been planning and embedding strategies for 3 years, above all business will overcome any problems because ££££`s drives everything.

 

[Sarge]

Brexits man of the people farage to speak at far right rally in germany!

Nigel Farage to address far-right rally in Germany

Former Ukip leader accepts invitation by the granddaughter of Hitler's finance minister, Beatrix von Storch, to speak at Spandau Citadel in Berlin

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Sarge]

With parliament prorogued/ suspended for 5 weeks or so, wonder if that annoying 'stop brexit' shouty bloke outside HoC will cease shouting (for the duration) as theres no MPs there to hear him?

 

[m]

Brexits man of the people farage to speak at far right rally in germany!

Nigel Farage to address far-right rally in Germany

Former Ukip leader accepts invitation by the granddaughter of Hitler's finance minister, Beatrix von Storch, to speak at Spandau Citadel in Berlin

www.independent.co.uk

"border guards should open fire on refugees"

Charming lady.

 

[Essexyellows]

Brexits man of the people farage to speak at far right rally in germany!

Nigel Farage to address far-right rally in Germany

Former Ukip leader accepts invitation by the granddaughter of Hitler's finance minister, Beatrix von Storch, to speak at Spandau Citadel in Berlin

www.independent.co.uk

Godwin`s law right there!

Or, Bercow chose to resign for his own reasons and received plaudits from all sides of the House for his efforts to maintain democracy and apply the rules of parliament WITHOUT bias or malice.

Depends on ones perspective and his application of parliamentary conventions .... and lets "forget" the allegations of bullying and harassment on his watch.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/Conduct%20in%20Parliament/GWQC%20Inquiry%20Report%2011%20July%202019_.pdf

He`ll be off to a comfy seat in the HoL as reward for his effort.

 

[Marked Ox]

Brexits man of the people farage to speak at far right rally in germany!

Nigel Farage to address far-right rally in Germany

Former Ukip leader accepts invitation by the granddaughter of Hitler's finance minister, Beatrix von Storch, to speak at Spandau Citadel in Berlin

www.independent.co.uk

He's got form for this as he is mates with Trump.

 

[Marked Ox]

And breath.....................................................

Nice to see Parliament experiencing what the people have for the last 3 years. Frustration and not knowing what is going on.

And, as a bonus, Bercow got flushed out for what he is neither impartial or unbiased.

Releasing OY documents will achieve nothing, it contains worst case & best case scenarios, the Leave side will say it proves everything will be fine, the Remain side will liken it to the Four Horsemen with death & destitution on the streets.

The public sector, despite all the bluster, have been planning and embedding strategies for 3 years, above all business will overcome any problems because ££££`s drives everything.

If releasing OY achieves nothing why was the Johnson Govt so desperate not to release the documents?

 

[Gary Baldi]

I agree with some of what you have written.

To re-make an important point already made though; Brexiteers were key in rejecting the deal already agreed which imo renders your closing paragraph entirely redundant.

I am fully critical of the idiots in the ERG who had a chance to move this on and did not. They take a portion of the blame pie without question, but the volume of Remainers makes them a moot freak show.

My last paragraph though points out, like last nights hissy fits with Black Rod, the Remain side have just completely lost the plot and there is no thought other than a ethereal desire to "Stop Brexit". I've heard no words on what they'd like Boris to renegotiate on, how they think it can be achieved, why Leavers cannot get a democratic vote passed because Remainers don't like it etc, etc. It's just vacuous empty worded virtue signalling can kicking to get in the way and hope Leavers get fed up and accede the vote from 2016.

At least the economy bound for a recession grew a bit last quarter. Surprisingly resilient, despite politicians best effort to sabotage it. What could we do if we finally got a process for leaving the EU in place? This country has such amazing opportunities available to it if we were allowed to focus on our future. We need to talk about the future, invest in schools, road, plus many other things. The 5th biggest economy in the world needs to remove the shackles.

 

[Marked Ox]

MPs try to pin John Bercow to his seat during late-night mayhem in parliament

Labour MPs attempted to interrupt the prorogation ceremony - before being bundled aside by officials

www.independent.co.uk

Make your protest by all means but trying to hold the Speaker in his seat, just wow! It just strikes me as something off a playground.