National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[RyanioBirdio]

With all due respect, comments like this display exactly the kind of disingenuous rhetoric that has got us into this ridiculous situation in the first place. The suggestion that the EU are looking to punish us and, by extension, are being deliberately antagonistic and ‘our enemies’ throughout this process is completely false. They have negotiated in good faith throughout while looking out for the best interests of their member states (which you would have thought is an example of their strength as a trading bloc, but hey ho) - which is distinctly different from actively looking to undermine the UK.

If we do leave with no deal, and everything goes to utter s**t (which every genuinely expert opinion indicates it will), the politicians and other members of the bizarrely un-maligned actual elite (Murdoch, Farage, JRM, Johnson, etc.) will use this line of disinformation to claim that Brexit could have been wonderful had it not been for the meddling EU, who have looked to punish the UK from the off. This will simply be untrue, and it is important that this deception, the seeds of which are already being sown, is refuted and buried as early as possible.

Yup. They’ve also started it domestically by trying to pin it all on the failures of the ‘softies’ who originally negotiated. They’ve lined up scapegoats both at home and abroad so they can say it would’ve worked had it been done differently, when (more like if) it fails. Nobody who got us into this mess will ever take responsibility and nobody who voted for it will ever regret it, because they’ve been told it’s been ruined by others. So nobody thinks they’re wrong or will ever believe they were, or will be held to account or have to admit to a mistake. Because it was all someone else’s fault and someone else ruined it.

Good, innit?

 

[ttg17]

Yup. They’ve also started it domestically by trying to pin it all on the failures of the ‘softies’ who originally negotiated. They’ve lined up scapegoats both at home and abroad so they can say it would’ve worked had it been done differently, when (more like if) it fails. Nobody who got us into this mess will ever take responsibility and nobody who voted for it will ever regret it, because they’ve been told it’s been ruined by others. So nobody thinks they’re wrong or will ever believe they were, or will be held to account or have to admit to a mistake. Because it was all someone else’s fault and someone else ruined it.

Good, innit?

Very well put.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

There's a common theme that people who think they are entitled to power also think they are exempt from blame.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Yup. They’ve also started it domestically by trying to pin it all on the failures of the ‘softies’ who originally negotiated. They’ve lined up scapegoats both at home and abroad so they can say it would’ve worked had it been done differently, when (more like if) it fails.

Good, innit?

Gets better. I was watching a program on 'the rise of nazism (cue reference to 'godwins law from the RT troll or his mate)'* during which the presenter said more or less that the nazis** decided consciously to "be vague on policy and rely on simple slogans such as 'make Germany great again'". That reminded me of something:
“Our mission is to deliver Brexit on the 31st of October for the purpose of uniting and re-energizing our great United Kingdom and making this country the greatest place on earth,” Johnson proclaimed.
He said Britain could be the most prosperous economy in Europe by 2050, a feat that would mean drawing far ahead of France and then overtaking Germany.
Johnson promised that British children and grandchildren “will be living longer, happier, healthier, wealthier lives”.

There's a source for this: 'I'll make Britain great again', PM Johnson says, echoing Trump


* I think it was on Channel 4 so it was probably made by 'experts' and is not to be trusted.
** A German organisation led by a gentleman called Adolf Hitler from circa 1930-45.

 

[Shropshire U]

A significant factor in a General Election will be the Tory voters who will support the Lib Dems. The Tory membership who gave us Johnson are not necessarily representative of lots of Tory voters. There are masses of Tory voters who want to Remain (remember it was the official line of their party in the referendum and the current MP "rebels" are the tip of an iceberg).
I just hope that the LP, Lib Dems, Nationalists, and Greens are already talking to each other about one-off alliances.
In our dumb first-past-the-post system (just as dumb as a single Yes / No referendum) tactical voting is sometimes a sad necessity.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

The peculiar thing is, ‘alliances’ and ‘arrangements’ work both ways... after all, the DUP is an arrangement!

 

[Peterdev]

The political system is set up in such a way that alliances can be set up to go against what people want.
There’s nothing I think to stop independent Conservatives standing at the all the Tory seats to split the votes.
First past the post is long overdue for scrapping

 

[tonyw]

With all due respect, comments like this display exactly the kind of disingenuous rhetoric that has got us into this ridiculous situation in the first place. The suggestion that the EU are looking to punish us and, by extension, are being deliberately antagonistic and ‘our enemies’ throughout this process is completely false. They have negotiated in good faith throughout while looking out for the best interests of their member states (which you would have thought is an example of their strength as a trading bloc, but hey ho) - which is distinctly different from actively looking to undermine the UK.

To be fair - and I say this playing Devil's Advocate as a staunch Remainer - the EU's Budget Chief did state last year that in the "pleasant but improbable" event of Britain staying in the bloc, that it would lose its rebate.

It wouldn't be a punitive measure, just part of a policy of taking the opportunity to phase out rebates in general, but - assuming they don't backtrack on this - it likely does mean that if Britain doesn't leave the EU, it will remain in it on inferior financial terms to those it has previously enjoyed.


Today smacks of complete confusion from BoJo & co. I don't think they have a clue what they're going to do next.....and because they've already got the Queen's assent to prorogue parliament, I guess the answer is not very much for the next five weeks.

So over to the EU, to see if they will agree to another Brexit extension (I presume they will), and then we'll arrange an election sometime in November? Maybe? Who knows any more...….

 

[Sarge]

amused me

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Today is the first time I’ve gotten a genuine feeling that something has gone badly wrong on the Brexit side. They’ve always had the plan but they never banked on a stumble in terms of being able to execute it. Now they don’t seem to know what to do and it feels as though genuine panic is setting in. More than 200,000 people registered to vote in the last day or so and more than half of them were the Under 35s who are statistically overwhelmingly remain. I think there’s actually a real chance that Boris and Big Dom got too cocky and might have lost Brexit. There’s a very real possibility that leaving isn’t a foregone conclusion.

What next?

 

[Paul Cannell]

Your dreams turn to ash.

 

[Manorlounger]

Today is the first time I’ve gotten a genuine feeling that something has gone badly wrong on the Brexit side. They’ve always had the plan but they never banked on a stumble in terms of being able to execute it. Now they don’t seem to know what to do and it feels as though genuine panic is setting in. More than 200,000 people registered to vote in the last day or so and more than half of them were the Under 35s who are statistically overwhelmingly remain. I think there’s actually a real chance that Boris and Big Dom got too cocky and might have lost Brexit. There’s a very real possibility that leaving isn’t a foregone conclusion.

What next?

This country becomes the laughing stock for the rest of Europe.
Those nice folk in Brussels will ask us all to touch our toes while they consider what to shove up our backsides.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Today is the first time I’ve gotten a genuine feeling that something has gone badly wrong on the Brexit side. They’ve always had the plan but they never banked on a stumble in terms of being able to execute it. Now they don’t seem to know what to do and it feels as though genuine panic is setting in. More than 200,000 people registered to vote in the last day or so and more than half of them were the Under 35s who are statistically overwhelmingly remain. I think there’s actually a real chance that Boris and Big Dom got too cocky and might have lost Brexit. There’s a very real possibility that leaving isn’t a foregone conclusion.

What next?

If the bill gets passed in time and a general election takes place in November then I can see Brexit getting dead and buried and we will stay in the EU. I personally would be happy with this as I am very much in the remain camp.

What ever happens now, it will take decades to repair the damage that has been done to this country with regards to dividing a whole nation.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Your dreams turn to ash.

Mr Cannell please, this is no time for pessimism.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

So...how do we not leave on the 31st Oct if Boris just does nothing?

No election, no negotiation, no extension request, (after all he'd sooner die in a ditch), no A50 revocation...

 

[RyanioBirdio]

So...how do we not leave on the 31st Oct if Boris just does nothing?

No election, no negotiation, no extension request, (after all he'd sooner die in a ditch), no A50 revocation...

The Lords are reportedly going to pass the bill back to the commons in time for no deal’s illegality to be ratified in good time. If that happens then it’s not possible to leave domestically, but of course the EU have to agree to an extension, so we’d essentially be stuck where we aren’t allowed to leave by domestic law but by European law we can’t stay any longer either.

So what will happen is that our MPs will vote to revoke article 50 all together at the last minute, and call the whole thing off.

 

[carefreeoufc]

Easiest way to sort it all out (and I think it’s been mentioned on here in the last 24hrs) is a second referendum following the disclosure of the Operation Yellowhammer report.

Have the referendum and a subsequent GE after parties have declared their manifestos. Vote on the one that most closely aligns with your own point of view and be done with it.

If after three years and the information people now have to hand still wish to leave the EU then fair enough. It’s not what I would want at all but at least people have had a chance to witness what is to come. I actually think it would be very close again because sides have only become more entrenched and moderates are now leaning further and further to one side or the other.

If we end up leaving with a Conservative party on No Deal terms as a result of a second referendum and GE then so be it. We’ll wait a few more years and see how the traditional labour voters who switched to the Brexit Party or Conservatives now feel.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I think as a nation we should excuse ourselves to the kitchen have a sit down with a nice cup of tea, maybe with a digestive and possibly have a little weep.

When we've finished our tea and dried our eyes and composed ourselves, we should return to the living room and pretend the previous outburst never happened.

I'm sure everyone in the room would be very understanding and too polite to ever mention it again.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Easiest way to sort it all out (and I think it’s been mentioned on here in the last 24hrs) is a second referendum following the disclosure of the Operation Yellowhammer report.

I would want to see the version control and revisions. But otherwise....

 

[carefreeoufc]

I would want to see the version control and revisions. But otherwise....

Project Fear though isn’t it?! Amended to make it sound worse!!

There’d be a rush on all sorts of medication to keep those that want a No Deal placid.