Away Match Day Thread 19/08/2023 - L1: Barnsley v OUFC

[Yellowecky]

Referees on YF can probably answer that with the current rules or laws etc ... the way I understand it ( I I may very likely be mistaken) is that the referee instructs his (or her) assistants on what the require from them, some referees for instance only want thrown ins and offside

personally, and especially as the officials at league level are linked these days, I think referees should be instructed by the FA to accept all the assistance their assistant referees can give them, as in the theFA should stop referees limiting the assistance they are given

I agree. They can’t be called ‘Assistant Referees’ and then not be allowed to behave like one.

 

[Mad Dog]

Great goal Tyler

Yes, Tyler did very well yesterday, and in midweek.

I think I've been guilty of being a bit harsh on Ty recently, as I'll admit, I didn't know what all the fuss was about, as other than a couple of very good goals last season, every other time I saw him play, other than the energy he would inject, I personally wasn't very impressed with his overall contribution, I felt he looked like a boy playing amongst men, and after the first two games this season, I didn't really see anything to change my mind.

However, the last three games have seen him step up his level massively, and along with his customary injection of energy and pace, he's now looking a lot more controlled and confident player, and is contributing in more telling ways, and has been very impressive to watch.

Maybe he's still better as an option from the bench right now, rather than starting games, but I was wrong to be so dismissive of him after just two games this season, when none of them had been any good up to that point either.

But every single one of them has upped their game massively in the last three games, and after what I think was probably an underwhelming first couple of games of the season, Tyler has shown he's gonna be an important player for us this season.

Well done Ty

 

[Common Villager]

Great win yesterday. Six points from Derby and Barnsley away is outstanding. After the first three matches I would've taken two points from those two fixtures. It's becoming increasingly clear how important the whole squad is going to be this season. I think it's fair to say Manning is not someone who has favourites, which is refreshing after the previous incumbent. Two more good additions to the squad and I think we'll have a really good season ahead of us.

 

[Eaststanding]

I agree. They can’t be called ‘Assistant Referees’ and then not be allowed to behave like one.

The clue is in the title…if they do any less they are simply linesmen/women/persons. It seems a rare thing to see an assistant actively bringing something other than offside to the refs attention.

 

[Yellowecky]

I’m still smiling from yesterday’s result and performance. My greatest hope from the last two matches was two points and I’m usually on the positive bus! How wrong was I. Here’s hoping we can carry on where we left off next Saturday and top it off with a couple of additions to the squad.

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

Referees on YF can probably answer that with the current rules or laws etc ... the way I understand it ( I I may very likely be mistaken) is that the referee instructs his (or her) assistants on what the require from them, some referees for instance only want thrown ins and offside

personally, and especially as the officials at league level are linked these days, I think referees should be instructed by the FA to accept all the assistance their assistant referees can give them, as in the theFA should stop referees limiting the assistance they are given

This is right Sarge. Ref's discretion.

It's a tough one to get right. If assistants get too involved its surprising how much that can affect the game and confuse players and fans. It's also not possible for any human being to reliably follow the defensive line and touchline and catch fouls. At the other extreme, especially in the pro game where everything happens at such pace, completely passive assistants means all but the fittest and most dynamic refs will have an impossible job.

The best refs know their style and strengths and weaknesses and brief their assistants accordingly. Ego driven refs tend to tell their linos to do offside and throwins only. Wimpy refs ask for everything so they can deflect responsibility from themselves. Good refs will explain how they tend to position themselves, make it clear it's not the assistants responsibility but ask for a flag if the lino happens to catch something he or she may have missed. Yesterday's seemed pretty good.

On the subject of linos I love this quote from the Cheltenham manager yesterday after a Pompey fan had to step in from the crowd to run the line in the second half. "I think they should all have a curry and four pints before coming on, it seemed to do the trick.He was probably the best official we've had this year."

 

[Marked Ox]

You always get that, especially from the posters who are trying to make a point about how poor their own team is! 'How bad must we be if we lose to that lot' type thing.

I laughed at one thread started saying it was the worst performance in the last 10 years. Pretty much every poster responded suggested far worse performances including from this season.

 

[Theox07]

We scored from a ciaron brown throw yesterday

 

[Yellowecky]

This is right Sarge. Ref's discretion.

It's a tough one to get right. If assistants get too involved its surprising how much that can affect the game and confuse players and fans. It's also not possible for any human being to reliably follow the defensive line and touchline and catch fouls. At the other extreme, especially in the pro game where everything happens at such pace, completely passive assistants means all but the fittest and most dynamic refs will have an impossible job.

The best refs know their style and strengths and weaknesses and brief their assistants accordingly. Ego driven refs tend to tell their linos to do offside and throwins only. Wimpy refs ask for everything so they can deflect responsibility from themselves. Good refs will explain how they tend to position themselves, make it clear it's not the assistants responsibility but ask for a flag if the lino happens to catch something he or she may have missed. Yesterday's seemed pretty good.

On the subject of linos I love this quote from the Cheltenham manager yesterday after a Pompey fan had to step in from the crowd to run the line in the second half. "I think they should all have a curry and four pints before coming on, it seemed to do the trick.He was probably the best official we've had this year."

That’s interesting thank you.

Do you think the linesman should have intervened with the penalty decision in the Derby game? (He looked to be in a better position than the referee.)

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

That’s interesting thank you.

Do you think the linesman should have intervened with the penalty decision in the Derby game? (He looked to be in a better position than the referee.)

Personally I'd have seen it as an obvious foul but kept my flag down. The ref was well up with play and had every opportunity to see it. A quick glance to 'the boss' to check he wasn't flat on his a**e or looking the other way and on with the game. If it had been the same foul after a counter attack with the ref 60 yards back and puffing would be different

 

[Yellowecky]

Personally I'd have seen it as an obvious foul but kept my flag down. The ref was well up with play and had every opportunity to see it. A quick glance to 'the boss' to check he wasn't flat on his a**e or looking the other way and on with the game. If it had been the same foul after a counter attack with the ref 60 yards back and puffing would be different

That’s what I don’t understand. How an official can see an ‘obvious foul’ but let play continue??

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

That’s what I don’t understand. How an official can see an ‘obvious foul’ but let play continue??

I think thats the difference between watching a game and officiating it. In an average match there'll be hundreds of individual decisions most of which noone even notices and often dozens of times when a lino will see things differently to the ref. If the assistant flags everything they see there'd be three refs on the pitch. That might sound ok but in reality the whole game becomes unplayable and unwatchable without a line of command. In the Derby pen example there's nothing to stop the ref asking his lino for an opinion if he was unsighted and had genuine doubt but it's not the assistant's job to make that decision. One area where this boundary has blurred a bit in recent years is shirt pulling in wide positions where most of the time the offender is blocking the ref's sight line - linos are often more empowered to make the call on these.

Note that I only do amateur football at a very low level and the feedback from most supporters and coaches is that I am a blind, corrupt wa***er so don't take anything here as gospel

 

[Swaby39]

Interesting reading the Derby and Barnsley fans forums where both have a reference to their sides making us look like Barcelona! We should take the compliment even if it was not intended as such!

Nb: Whilst the Derby site had some reasonable, balanced individuals, the Barnsley site appears neanderthal!

It’s always symptomatic of the ‘too big for this league’ disease. Both are sufferers.

A bit like being nutmegged at school by the little kid with straight A’s … “doesn’t count, I wasn’t concentrating”

 

[SteMerritt]

I think thats the difference between watching a game and officiating it. In an average match there'll be hundreds of individual decisions most of which noone even notices and often dozens of times when a lino will see things differently to the ref. If the assistant flags everything they see there'd be three refs on the pitch. That might sound ok but in reality the whole game becomes unplayable and unwatchable without a line of command. In the Derby pen example there's nothing to stop the ref asking his lino for an opinion if he was unsighted and had genuine doubt but it's not the assistant's job to make that decision. One area where this boundary has blurred a bit in recent years is shirt pulling in wide positions where most of the time the offender is blocking the ref's sight line - linos are often more empowered to make the call on these.

Note that I only do amateur football at a very low level and the feedback from most supporters and coaches is that I am a blind, corrupt wa***er so don't take anything here as gospel

Isn't the flag horizontal across the linesmans chest a signal to the ref that a penalty offense has occurred? Is that still in use if so? Should have been deployed v Derby, the linesman was in a much better place to see any offense.

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

Isn't the flag horizontal across the linesmans chest a signal to the ref that a penalty offense has occurred? Is that still in use if so? Should have been deployed v Derby if so, the linesman was in a much better place to see any offense.

That's an informal signal not part of the regs. I don't know whether refs are allowed to explicitly ask for these in a pro game tbh. Apart from that a pen is the same as any other foul, only intervene if the ref is unsighted or if it's clearly in your vicinity not theirs.

 

[Sarge]

This is right Sarge. Ref's discretion.

It's a tough one to get right. If assistants get too involved its surprising how much that can affect the game and confuse players and fans. It's also not possible for any human being to reliably follow the defensive line and touchline and catch fouls. At the other extreme, especially in the pro game where everything happens at such pace, completely passive assistants means all but the fittest and most dynamic refs will have an impossible job.

The best refs know their style and strengths and weaknesses and brief their assistants accordingly. Ego driven refs tend to tell their linos to do offside and throwins only. Wimpy refs ask for everything so they can deflect responsibility from themselves. Good refs will explain how they tend to position themselves, make it clear it's not the assistants responsibility but ask for a flag if the lino happens to catch something he or she may have missed. Yesterday's seemed pretty good.

On the subject of linos I love this quote from the Cheltenham manager yesterday after a Pompey fan had to step in from the crowd to run the line in the second half. "I think they should all have a curry and four pints before coming on, it seemed to do the trick.He was probably the best official we've had this year."

well explained @ThatSlopesATwelfthMan , thanks .... I kinda empathise with the Cheltenham managers comments after yesterdays game

It is a thankless task officiating matches - and, we wouldnt have games to watch without match officials

 

[Nadi-]

Although the Bristol game turned out badly, The so called green shoots were evident, for 45 minutes. McGuane and Brannagan iwere as good if not better in midfield, the 3 youngsters and Bodin going forward caused lots of trouble for City.
A sloppy few minutes and as a team we were in trouble.
the last 3 games have been a credit to all the players and management. The confidence, organisation, and structure are all pretty evident. And would say the players have enjoyed playing, as much as it’s been to watch.
Defensively Moore and Negru look solid as a pair, Brown and Long both cover and do as full backs should.
But going forward we look so dangerous, sharp, quick, and not the ponderous slow sideways possession of the last 18 months.

 

[Ewes]

Isn't the flag horizontal across the linesmans chest a signal to the ref that a penalty offense has occurred? Is that still in use if so? Should have been deployed v Derby, the linesman was in a much better place to see any offense.

No. If the assistant sees something they believe is worthy of a penalty, they flag frantically in the air and run to the corner flag. That’s the official way of notifying the offence. In reality, in the EFL, all referees and assistants are mic-ed up and speaking continually to each other, and the assistant will have told the ref what they have seen.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I think if the Ref tells the linesmen/assistant referees that they are there for just offsides and throw-ins, they‘re not doing their job properly.The linesmen/assistant referees are paid to help officiate and are often much closer to the action and have less distractions.
The referee’s assessors should be checking with the linesmen/referee’s assistants what instructions were they given.

 

[TailsWeWin]

Although the Bristol game turned out badly, The so called green shoots were evident, for 45 minutes. McGuane and Brannagan iwere as good if not better in midfield, the 3 youngsters and Bodin going forward caused lots of trouble for City.
A sloppy few minutes and as a team we were in trouble.
the last 3 games have been a credit to all the players and management. The confidence, organisation, and structure are all pretty evident. And would say the players have enjoyed playing, as much as it’s been to watch.
Defensively Moore and Negru look solid as a pair, Brown and Long both cover and do as full backs should.
But going forward we look so dangerous, sharp, quick, and not the ponderous slow sideways possession of the last 18 months.

The forced substitution of Negru may well be a blessing in disguise. He has talent in bundles. I look forward to him and Moore solidifying their partnership in the centre of defence.