Away Match Day Thread 18/9/21 L1: Cheltenham Town v OUFC

All teams use technology to try to find the slightest possible gain, I am sure that it’s fear of missing out that made it so popular , team x have it and they are top of the table so it must be good and so let’s get it…..
Where it falls down is that the gain has to be turned in to something achieviable on the pitch by a human
Our stats no doubt will show that nothing of real value, it won’t show our goal scoring problems, or players played out of position, the real stats which count are the results
 
All teams use technology to try to find the slightest possible gain, I am sure that it’s fear of missing out that made it so popular , team x have it and they are top of the table so it must be good and so let’s get it…..
Where it falls down is that the gain has to be turned in to something achieviable on the pitch by a human
Our stats no doubt will show that nothing of real value, it won’t show our goal scoring problems, or players played out of position, the real stats which count are the results
I agree. As I said previously the telling pass and the progressive/aggressive pass which sometimes goes wrong is not encouraging to a player scared he will be scolded in low stats returns.
 
We didn’t have any clear cut chances against Cheltenham though.

2 great shots by Henry from outside the box and then a blocked effort from Whyte is all I can remember.

And the less said about our set pieces the better. They were appalling.
 
is it not also the case that teams now only play from the back because Man City introduced it into their game. So clubs,managers,coaching staff are either changing their recruitment policy to find suitable players comfortable with that style of play or trying to change the style of their current players.

Stats are everywhere, there are even some Broadcasters now giving percentage chance of each outcome during various stages of the game, i'm sure most viewers are not bothered or interested and as a poster has said with other factors can lead to boredom
 
We didn’t have any clear cut chances against Cheltenham though.

2 great shots by Henry from outside the box and then a blocked effort from Whyte is all I can remember.

And the less said about our set pieces the better. They were appalling.
is it not the case in modern football that there are fewer clearcut chances? These days Goalkeepers do not have to make the number of saves that they once used to.
 
As a sport football has got duller to watch, it’s an old game now that has been analysed to death and teams have tried to figure out how to minimise risk, whether that’s getting 10 men behind the ball or passing the ball across the back four for half an hour. I used to watch loads of games on tv but unless you have an interest in a team or it’s a big game it can be like watching paint dry.

There’s an old saying from some old football manager that if you want entertainment go and watch clowns in a circus, well kids very much have that option nowadays with social media and they don’t even have to get out of bed to do it, that explains why most youngsters barely watch football now, the game has disappeared up its own a**e.

It (like all other sports) will be a niche activity within 10 to 15 years as the gap between ultra competitive sporting demands and modern patience for entertainment widens.
 
I’ve been in my job for a long time and we used to do things quickly and keep track on a bit of paper or a spreadsheet. Often I’d sort it all out myself and it was generally fine. Now there are any number of procedures and armies of bossy girls with all manner of platforms and tracking tools. Must cost a fortune. But it’s the way of the world and as @Scotchegg says you have to do it or be left behind.
I've been in my job a very long time as well, and up until a few years ago, we got by perfectly fine without the influx of technology that exists in the job now, workers were much happier, felt valued and trusted, and were able to do the job in a much more effective way, achieving excellent results.

Then a few years ago, the company spent millions on a whole new technological "upgrade" to the way things are done, and the job has now become an absolute nightmare.

Workers feel under valued, ignored and are made to blindly follow the technology and computer based info, that is totally wrong, illogical, over complicated, and has made the job impossible to do successfully, due to the human element being taken out of it and the workers not being able to achieve the unrealistic targets and expectations of the ludicrous, overcomplicated technology and computer systems we're now forced to use and abide by.

The company won't change back to the way we did things before, simply because they say they've spent too much money implementing these new technologies, and other rival companies are using this tech, so we need to keep up, or we'll fall behind.

But some of these rival companies have now gone bust in recent years, and the ones that are still operating, just like us now, have seen their working relationship with a lot of customers suffer as a direct result of the technology making it more difficult to provide the excellent service they/we did before we allowed technology to become the bee all and end all.

I understand the need to move with the times, and use technology as a useful tool to assist humans in any job, in all walks of life, not just sport, and to an extent, technology does just that, and does it well.

But it's easy to say "keep up, or get left behind" but if keeping up means losing the natural, human instinctive approach, and things being more clinical, complicated, ridiculous and illogical, to the point where results are actually being effected in a negative way, then I think I'd rather be left behind, to do things the way that was working fine before all this technological nonsense started taking over!

Like I say, with regards to the football, statistical analytical data is fine, to an extent, but you look at how many people are in the "backroom staff" at clubs nowadays, especially at the top level, and how many of those are simply "analysis" and it's a bloody ludicrous waste of money.

Top managers throughout the history of the game managed absolutely fine, without all the technology and "analysis" in the game these days, they were able to identify what was good or bad, and knew how to make the relevant adjustments. They didn't need an army of "analysts" to do it for them.

Any manager worth his salt could surely see in any given game that the crossing was good or poor, the shooting was good or poor, we did or didn't have enough attempts on goal, the passing was or wasn't good enough, we lost too many tackles and 2nd balls, we did or didn't retain possession well enough in the 1st or 2nd half, we gave away too many silly fouls, we didn't win enough or conceded too many corners, and then didn't defend the corners well enough, or make use of our own corners enough etc.

They should also be able to see, throughout the course of the season, where the strengths and weaknesses lie, individually and as a team, without the need to spend a fortune to employ statistical analysts to use expensive technology to tell them that.

I dunno, call me old fashioned, but I just preferred it when it was a much simpler time, and maybe I am a bit of a dinosaur, but to be honest, I'm absolutely fine with that!
 
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I don't think the annoyance on here is 'because we lost a game of football'.

It is because:
It is become obvious (as if we didn't know it already!) that the squad that has been assembled contains some very talented individuals, but little thought *seems* to have been put into how they fit together and how there will be options to cover injuries and loss of form in various positions. If we are going to lump the ball up (after passing it sideways for a while) we need a target man. We haven't really got one. If we are going to put in crosses, then we need an excellent, tall header of the ball who can dominate large central defenders. We haven't really got one. So the only conclusion is that we have bought/retained decent players, but perhaps not ones who fit into the system we are playing. But yet we've got loads of wingers who either don't get a game (Cooper) or get played on the wrong side. The squad is ridiculously imbalanced.
Yet again we seem to have players like Winnall and McGuane who are made of wet tissue paper. A strong breeze and they are on the treatment table for a month. Do we sign some players based on their reputations rather than how they might actually perform now?
It's all very well having a set way to play, but when that isn't working just doing it over and over again and hoping things somehow improve is quite daft. Our away games have settled into a fairly predictable pattern.
The team is not as fit as it should be. By 75 minutes we are puffing and blowing - so the last quarter of the match seems to always be a real trial.
After a decent start, we have now reverted to our usual early season form under KR. The excuses are wearing thin (bad time to play promoted teams, Wimbledon have a new ground, injuries, unlucky etc). You'd have though he'd have learned by now, but apparently not. Points gained and lost now are just as precious as those gained in a long unbeaten run later in the season - but relying on the latter happening every year is a risky option.
The substitutions made by the manager often seem preplanned (whatever the match situation) and are frequently very ineffective - often making things worse rather than better,

It's not a crisis of course - we are early in the season still, But there *obviously* need to be changes. We have to work with what we've got until January. So we need a bit more flexibility from the manager in team selection, tactics and substitutions, some stamina training to make sure we don't keep fading in matches and (even if we keep playing the same style) a bit more urgency and a bit more willingness to carry the ball forward, to go past a man and to try a forward pass (not a hoof) rather than taking the safe option. The challenge for KR is to take the players he has bought/kept and make them into a better 'team' than they are presently.
People have been warned about talking sense on here before!!!
 
As a sport football has got duller to watch, it’s an old game now that has been analysed to death and teams have tried to figure out how to minimise risk, whether that’s getting 10 men behind the ball or passing the ball across the back four for half an hour. I used to watch loads of games on tv but unless you have an interest in a team or it’s a big game it can be like watching paint dry.

There’s an old saying from some old football manager that if you want entertainment go and watch clowns in a circus, well kids very much have that option nowadays with social media and they don’t even have to get out of bed to do it, that explains why most youngsters barely watch football now, the game has disappeared up its own a**e.

It (like all other sports) will be a niche activity within 10 to 15 years as the gap between ultra competitive sporting demands and modern patience for entertainment widens.
Is that right though? There's loads of money in football now, someone must be watching it.
 
Is that right though? There's loads of money in football now, someone must be watching it.

The viewing figures for most Sky/BT games are tiny, I was in a couple of pubs Sunday afternoon with two big games on and they would of been busy years ago but not now. People pay Sky/BT to watch there own team and the big matches (or out of habit).

It’s the viewing age that matters as well, it’s fine for now as they have older generations that grew up watching football and are used to paying for it, what is coming after as that number decreases will either have no interest or not want to pay for it. I have Sky, BT and Amazon Prime and I will watch more Oxford and England games not through those platforms this season than I do.
 
The viewing figures for most Sky/BT games are tiny, I was in a couple of pubs Sunday afternoon with two big games on and they would of been busy years ago but not now. People pay Sky/BT to watch there own team and the big matches (or out of habit).

It’s the viewing age that matters as well, it’s fine for now as they have older generations that grew up watching football and are used to paying for it, what is coming after as that number decreases will either have no interest or not want to pay for it. I have Sky, BT and Amazon Prime and I will watch more Oxford and England games not through those platforms this season than I do.
You're probably right about young people, they may develop their own sports habits if new media presents football to them in a way that appeals more.

I find that the PL has become really dull, the same teams win every week which might interest the notional 'Asian market' but is certainly boring to me. I want to see Southampton winning at Old Trafford and Bournemouth beating Chelsea three years in a row.
 
It’s the viewing age that matters as well, it’s fine for now as they have older generations that grew up watching football and are used to paying for it, what is coming after as that number decreases will either have no interest or not want to pay for it.
If the game wants to survive it is going to have to embrace proper streaming platforms and greater availability. It’s completely unavoidable. People pay for music, television and movies via this method in huge numbers, primarily for the convenience. They’re willing to pay to stop themselves having to trawl about the Internet finding various sources of differing reliability, and also because they know that almost anything they want will be there in one place. Streaming any Premier League game that you like is currently very easy, but it can be unreliable from time to time. When Ronaldo made his return against Newcastle the other week the demand was so high to see the game that the main sites all crashed about 15 minutes in - total sever meltdown - but even then people started streaming that game and others through Twitter and Twitch accounts. People are going to show these games and find a way to view them, so it’s just nonsense that the leagues themselves don’t offer quick and easy access to view any fixture, rather than Sky (including NowTV), BT and Amazon all costing a combined £50+ quid a month across multiple gateways to show less than half of the games. People will pay for the reliability and convenience - that’s their priority. Football arrogantly misunderstands where the value is to these people. Young people will pay for stuff if it’s what they want, how they want it. The biggest threat to them not caring about football is football not caring about them. If it’s going to take them on and try to force “the way it’s always a been” onto them then it will lose.

The sport is going to need to confront this at some point, starting at the top with the PL where the bulk of the demand is, because otherwise it’s going to make nothing while people still take what they want regardless. The “they won’t come to the games though” argument isn’t even worth starting - the people streaming aren’t going anyway and the people who do go regularly who then choose not to will be extremely minimal. Keep the experience of attending a game semi-engaging and there won’t be problems. People want to go to the football in the flesh the same as they want to go to a gig or festival. If a camera on the halfway line kills the sport then it wasn’t worth saving and had no value to begin with.

There needs to be real debate and real consideration given to this ASAP. The main problem isn’t that the entire sport isn’t being flung open overnight, but that the people who matter and make the calls aren’t even willing to talk or start taking small steps in the right direction. It isn’t that they’re not moving fast enough, they aren’t moving at all. That coordinated “here’s why the blackout singlehandedly saves English football and should be here forever and ever” messaging that was put out the other week was proof that the game has no interest in evolving. It arrogantly thinks that it dictates consumption methods and trends rather than the consumer. The music industry tried this and nearly killed itself. Now it’s making more money than it has for more than 20 years. Football needs to start moving now.

In five years they might start looking at this a little closer. Maybe. In reality it’ll probably still just be a bunch of old blokes tossing off Sky in car parks across the country.
 
If the game wants to survive it is going to have to embrace proper streaming platforms and greater availability. It’s completely unavoidable. People pay for music, television and movies via this method in huge numbers, primarily for the convenience. They’re willing to pay to stop themselves having to trawl about the Internet finding various sources of differing reliability, and also because they know that almost anything they want will be there in one place. Streaming any Premier League game that you like is currently very easy, but it can be unreliable from time to time. When Ronaldo made his return against Newcastle the other week the demand was so high to see the game that the main sites all crashed about 15 minutes in - total sever meltdown - but even then people started streaming that game and others through Twitter and Twitch accounts. People are going to show these games and find a way to view them, so it’s just nonsense that the leagues themselves don’t offer quick and easy access to view any fixture, rather than Sky (including NowTV), BT and Amazon all costing a combined £50+ quid a month across multiple gateways to show less than half of the games. People will pay for the reliability and convenience - that’s their priority. Football arrogantly misunderstands where the value is to these people. Young people will pay for stuff if it’s what they want, how they want it. The biggest threat to them not caring about football is football not caring about them. If it’s going to take them on and try to force “the way it’s always a been” onto them then it will lose.

The sport is going to need to confront this at some point, starting at the top with the PL where the bulk of the demand is, because otherwise it’s going to make nothing while people still take what they want regardless. The “they won’t come to the games though” argument isn’t even worth starting - the people streaming aren’t going anyway and the people who do go regularly who then choose not to will be extremely minimal. Keep the experience of attending a game semi-engaging and there won’t be problems. People want to go to the football in the flesh the same as they want to go to a gig or festival. If a camera on the halfway line kills the sport then it wasn’t worth saving and had no value to begin with.

There needs to be real debate and real consideration given to this ASAP. The main problem isn’t that the entire sport isn’t being flung open overnight, but that the people who matter and make the calls aren’t even willing to talk or start taking small steps in the right direction. It isn’t that they’re not moving fast enough, they aren’t moving at all. That coordinated “here’s why the blackout singlehandedly saves English football and should be here forever and ever” messaging that was put out the other week was proof that the game has no interest in evolving. It arrogantly thinks that it dictates consumption methods and trends rather than the consumer. The music industry tried this and nearly killed itself. Now it’s making more money than it has for more than 20 years. Football needs to start moving now.

In five years they might start looking at this a little closer. Maybe. In reality it’ll probably still just be a bunch of old blokes tossing off Sky in car parks across the country.

Or we could go back to one game every 9 weeks on ITV?

It can’t survive how it is, to have a deal that pretends the interest in Brentford v Wolves is the same as that of Man U vs Liverpool, that refuses to let people pay money to watch there own team play a game away in league one on the other side of the country to protect soccer Saturday is unworkable now let alone a few years in the future when you have a generation that has grown up scrolling through Tik Tok videos on IPhones.

Live football has a big enough problem attracting the younger generation but at least that’s a day out and an event, Wolves having eleven men behind the ball while Brighton pass it around there back four for 45 minutes at 12.30 on a Saturday afternoon on a £50 plus a month subscription is doomed like you say, you can either watch it for free on a stream if you are already a fan or, more sensibly, watch tik toks of people arguing over parking spaces.
 
Walsall and Bury were higher than Bournemouth a few years back, but look at them now.Ever since I started supporting the Yellows Bournemouth were always a fourth tier team, they sometimes went to the third tier So you do get the likes of Walsall and Bury up there.
Wouldn't surprise me to see Fleetwood or Morecambe in the Championship soon.Wycombe were there last season for Gods sake
Any team with a good management structure who can get the right manager has a chance to go through the leagues

Bournemouth had a good management structure - but they also had a Russian oligarch bankrolling them way beyond their means.

That's the only way now for a small-to-medium size club to be competitive at the upper end of the Championship (never mind the Premier League). Without that, even with the best management team in the world, the ceiling is scrapping it out for survival at the bottom of the second tier - as Wycombe did last year, and Burton did for a couple of years before that.

I don't think there's any doubt that the financial chasm - even between the bigger Championship clubs (again, never mind the Premier League) and the lower leagues - has grown massively in the past quarter century.

I will give you any odds you like that Morecambe won't finish higher than 18th in the Championship any time soon unless for some reason an insane sugar daddy looks there way.
 
I will give you any odds you like that Morecambe won't finish higher than 18th in the Championship any time soon unless for some reason an insane sugar daddy looks there way.

I'll have a penny* at 100,000,000/1 please.

Do you do PayPal?

*US or UK
 
The issues around TV revenue and access to games via streaming platforms is something that clearly needs addressing, but the whole game needs a complete overhaul, from a moral point of view, as at the top level, clubs have become foreign run companies with largely foreign players and very few homegrown players, all on astronomical wages, supposedly representing communities that were at one time intrinsically linked to their football clubs, but who they simply can't relate to anymore.

Gone are the days when players would come through the ranks at clubs, and go on to become club legends, making hundreds of appearances, and sharing memorable moments with the fans that will be remembered for a lifetime. You might get the odd one, but most players who do come through these days, predominantly sit on the bench whilst a bunch of foreign players come in and get paid obscene amounts of money, and walk straight into the side, stunting the homegrown players' progression, leading to those players either spending their career on the fringes of the first team, or moving on to a Championship club, or forever being shipped out to lower league clubs on loan, until they fade into obscurity.

Premier league games used to be a great spectacle, when fixtures really meant something to the players, and there were club rivalries and individual player rivalries, back when you'd have a handful of foreign players in the squad, who would buy into the ethos of the club, and develop a huge bond with the club, the fans and the local community, and go on to become club legends.

Players like Cantona, Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Lundberg, Viera, Van Nistelrooy, Torres, Klinsmann, Drogba, Zola, Ronaldo, Evra, Stam, Vidic, to name a few!

These players didn't just chase the dollar, they went to clubs for success, learnt about the history of their clubs, and understood the rivalries, and what the club meant to the fans and the local communities, and fought for that club, putting their bodies on the line each week, along with the homegrown players who went on to become premier league and club legends themselves, it made the premier league a cauldron for intense competitive matches week in week out, and was a great spectacle, and whoever was playing, you knew you were going to be entertained.

Now, players go where the money is, and they barely bother to learn the language, let alone anything else, such as the club's history, they play like they're more bothered about themselves, and preserving their latest tattoo and hairstyle, before securing another big money move elsewhere, and due to their disgusting wages, are so far removed from the reality of the communities that their clubs represent, that the bonds that used to exist between players, clubs, fans and communities are no longer there. At the top level of the game, fans are considered paying customers now, nothing more.

The passion from the players for their club isn't there anymore, and it shows in the lacklustre performances in the premier league every week, the games are flat, sterile and lacking passion, intensity and desire, with players from opposing teams laughing and chatting after games, even if one team has thrashed the other. They're not bothered.

In my opinion, it's due to the overwhelming influx of money, technology, and foreign players, foreign managers and foreign owners.

Football originated from a working class background, but has now evolved into a money generating monster for the elite mega rich, and the clubs are losing their identities in the process.

It's like an infection, that's already trickled down from the premiership into the Championship, and needs to be stopped in it's tracks, before it can trickle down into the lower leagues, although I fear we're already seeing the first signs that it may already be too late...
 
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The issues around TV revenue and access to games via streaming platforms is something that clearly needs addressing, but the whole game needs a complete overhaul, from a moral point of view, as at the top level, clubs have become foreign run companies with largely foreign players and very few homegrown players, all on astronomical wages, supposedly representing communities that were at one time intrinsically linked to their football clubs, but who they simply can't relate to anymore.

Gone are the days when players would come through the ranks at clubs, and go on to become club legends, making hundreds of appearances, and sharing memorable moments with the fans that will be remembered for a lifetime. You might get the odd one, but most players who do come through these days, predominantly sit on the bench whilst a bunch of foreign players come in and get paid obscene amounts of money, and walk straight into the side, stunting the homegrown players' progression, leading to those players either spending their career on the fringes of the first team, or moving on to a Championship club, or forever being shipped out to lower league clubs on loan, until they fade into obscurity.

Premier league games used to be a great spectacle, when fixtures really meant something to the players, and there were club rivalries and individual player rivalries, back when you'd have a handful of foreign players in the squad, who would buy into the ethos of the club, and develop a huge bond with the club, the fans and the local community, and go on to become club legends.

Players like Cantona, Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Lundberg, Viera, Van Nistelrooy, Torres, Klinsmann, Drogba, Zola, Ronaldo, Evra, Stam, Vidic, to name a few!

These players didn't just chase the dollar, they went to clubs for success, learnt about the history of their clubs, and understood the rivalries, and what the club meant to the fans and the local communities, and fought for that club, putting their bodies on the line each week, along with the homegrown players who went on to become premier league and club legends themselves, it made the premier league a cauldron for intense competitive matches week in week out, and was a great spectacle, and whoever was playing, you knew you were going to be entertained.

Now, players go where the money is, and they barely bother to learn the language, let alone anything else, such as the club's history, they play like they're more bothered about themselves, and preserving their latest tattoo and hairstyle, before securing another big money move elsewhere, and due to their disgusting wages, are so far removed from the reality of the communities that their clubs represent, that the bonds that used to exist between players, clubs, fans and communities are no longer there. At the top level of the game, fans are considered paying customers now, nothing more.

The passion from the players for their club isn't there anymore, and it shows in the lacklustre performances in the premier league every week, the games are flat, sterile and lacking passion, intensity and desire, with players from opposing teams laughing and chatting after games, even if one team has thrashed the other. They're not bothered.

In my opinion, it's due to the overwhelming influx of money, technology, and foreign players, foreign managers and foreign owners.

Football originated from a working class background, but has now evolved into a money generating monster for the elite mega rich, and the clubs are losing their identities in the process.

It's like an infection, that's already trickled down from the premiership into the Championship, and needs to be stopped in it's tracks, before it can trickle down in the lower leagues, although I fear we're already seeing the first signs that it may already be too late...

Hmm. It's a bit 1982 Amish for me. The Premier League didn't slowly go bad, it was the start and the cause of the problem. It was just a lot of fun to begin with so most people didn't notice or care.
 
Hmm. It's a bit 1982 Amish for me. The Premier League didn't slowly go bad, it was the start and the cause of the problem. It was just a lot of fun to begin with so most people didn't notice or care.
I think there was always an undercurrent of financial toxicity from day one, but it wasn't effecting the football itself, quite the opposite in fact, it became an exciting league full of intense competition and rivalries, as well as a healthy sprinkling of genius players coming in from outside the uk, and had become very entertaining.

The REAL problems started in 2003, when Abramovich took over at Chelsea. That really started the rot, and then Man City came along, and took it to the next level, and now it's rotten to the core, and heading out into the stratosphere!

It's why, although I'm naturally desperate for our club to win and win, and to have as much success as possible, I'm also terrified of what will happen to the club I love, if we soar too high, as it would break my heart to see it infected by the sums of money that have robbed a lot of top level clubs of their identity over the last 10-15 years...
 
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