National News Brexit - the Deal or No Deal poll

[Whingit]

Here’s what the Prime Minister David Cameron said prior to referendum in his Chatham House speech

“Your Decision, not politicians, not parliament. Just you”

“If we vote to leave, we will leave. They’ll not be another renegotiation or another referendum”

Hardly relevant though, there's been an election and there's a different government.

 

[tonyw]

It’s a fair analysis. You could argue that Cameron called the referendum 5 years to soon!

I wonder what percentage of those age groups 18 - 24 & over 65s actually bothered to vote?

Over 65s was 90%, and 18-24 was 65%. They factored that into their calculation!

 

[Banbury2018]

Hardly relevant though, there's been an election and there's a different government.

How about 85%of the voters at the last general election voting for parties( conservative and labour) who said they would see through the result of the referendum eg LEAVING the European Union. None of the s**t we are hearing now.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Over 65s was 90%, and 18-24 was 65%. They factored that into their calculation!

Latest Poll from Yougov - done yesterday: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...5/PeoplesVoteResults_190116_SnapPolling_w.pdf

 

[Sheik djibouti]

How about 85%of the voters at the last general election voting for parties( conservative and labour) who said they would see through the result of the referendum eg LEAVING the European Union. None of the s**t we are hearing now.

So you are saying that this means those voting for those parties support Brexit. Not relevant with no credible alternative I'm afraid and elections (rightly) are fought on a far wider range of issues than just Brexit. You can draw absolutely no conclusions from that at all. I know both life long Tory and Labour Remainers who voted the way they've always voted!

Anyway..we all know how true to their manifesto promises parties can be....and that is part of how we've got here!

 

[Whingit]

How about 85%of the voters at the last general election voting for parties( conservative and labour) who said they would see through the result of the referendum eg LEAVING the European Union. None of the s**t we are hearing now.

As far as I know, that's still the case. Both parties want to honour the result.

 

[Banbury2018]

As far as I know, that's still the case. Both parties want to honour the result.

So leave the Eu then because it doesn’t appear that way. How many labour politicians will honour the pledge or conservatives for that matter. Right now I am watching desperate Tony Blair trying to stop it.

 

[Sharp Edges]

I would have 3 defined options but in a 2 stage question

1st stage: Remain in the EU or Leave the EU

2nd stage: should Leave win stage 1: EFTA/May's deal (something like that) or No deal Brexit

If leave wins stage 1, then the winning option in stage 2 gets a mandate, whether No Deal or EFTA etc.

This stops the ambiguity of the 1st referendum on what Leave meant whilst allowing people to vote on actual options and on the implications of those deals. Make it a legally binding Referendum, unlike the advisory 2016 Referendum.

Remain has to be an option as so much more information about what Brexit means and its implications have been unveiled by the last 2 or so years and in a democracy, voters/people are allowed to change their minds.

Sounds okay but......

So if 51% vote leave, then 51% of the leave vote want no deal we leave on no deal with 25.5% of the vote.

Given that remainers have had great difficulty accepting defeat, how would the 49% react being beaten by 25.5%? Team up with the leave vote that want Mays deal to stop it? Parliament would be in meltdown!

 

[Marked Ox]

Sounds okay but......

So if 51% vote leave, then 51% of the leave vote want no deal we leave on no deal with 25.5% of the vote.

Given that remainers have had great difficulty accepting defeat, how would the 49% react being beaten by 25.5%? Team up with the leave vote that want Mays deal to stop it? Parliament would be in meltdown!

If the Referendum gave such a result then it would be legally binding.

 

[Sharp Edges]

The situation has changed, ie the implications of the options are now more readily apparent, so remain has to be an option.

The remain campaign should have highlighted these implications during the campaign instead of telling us there would be an emergency budget, property price crash, stock market crash, pensions would be worthless etc etc.

 

[Banbury2018]

If the Referendum gave such a result then it would be legally binding.

I thought the last one was legally binding.?

 

[Marked Ox]

The remain campaign should have highlighted these implications during the campaign instead of telling us there would be an emergency budget, property price crash, stock market crash, pensions would be worthless etc etc.

That can be turned around and Leave should have given genuine options with the implications of those options (and actually campaigned on one rather than switching depending on the day of the week) instead of the Sunlit Uplands rubbish. Likewise they could have been honest and not pushed the rubbish on the side of the bus (which was a lie). Leave could have not pushed the xenophobic angle when discussing immigration as they did over Turkey etc which was utter rubbish.

 

[Marked Ox]

I thought the last one was legally binding.?

Nope, advisory only.

 

[Banbury2018]

Nope, advisory only.

Yes you are correct although the government said they would act on the result. That’s the last government and the current one. As for opinion polls they don’t really carry much weight do they. Even after the referendum exit polls they still got it wrong.

 

[Marked Ox]

Yes you are correct although the government said they would act on the result. That’s the last government and the current one. As for opinion polls they don’t really carry much weight do they. Even after the referendum exit polls they still got it wrong.

And this Govt has amply demonstrated it can't get a result.

 

[Sharp Edges]

That can be turned around and Leave should have given genuine options with the implications of those options (and actually campaigned on one rather than switching depending on the day of the week) instead of the Sunlit Uplands rubbish. Likewise they could have been honest and not pushed the rubbish on the side of the bus (which was a lie). Leave could have not pushed the xenophobic angle when discussing immigration as they did over Turkey etc which was utter rubbish.

It could be turned around but when remainers claim we voted out on a lie or lies they conveniently forget they lost using a campaign based on the same. Telling the US president to lie on their behalf also is forgotten. Perhaps remain could have provided evidence the the leave campaign was flawed instead of pushing their own brand of lies. Cameron called a vote he didnt need to, lost a vote thought impossible and ran away when the s**t hit the fan.

 

[m]

Yes you are correct although the government said they would act on the result. That’s the last government and the current one. As for opinion polls they don’t really carry much weight do they. Even after the referendum exit polls they still got it wrong.

As the referendum was advisory it was surely little more than an opinion poll.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Do any of our resident Brexiteers think a 2nd vote would be undemocratic?

In the way the last vote was sold to us proles, yes. It was framed as IndyRef Mark 2, not as an ongoing consultation on our relationship with the EU with a chance to back out later. If Remainers saw that peril, they needed to do a better job then, not retcon the job now.

If we have another vote, regardless of being advisory or binding or a Twitter poll, I'd suggest that the loser will take it as an ok to go again. Remainers have largely not accepted the last result, and for some Brexiteers, it will be the green light for them to act in the same way if they don't get what they want. The UK could be mired in a morass of toxicity.

In some respects, it gets to the core of the issue. Do we believe in democracy and not winning at times, or do we believe in democracy, but only when it's the result we believe in?

 

[Banbury2018]

As the referendum was advisory it was surely little more than an opinion poll.

An opinion poll is a small sample not 35.5 million. Remain lost simple as .

 

[Marked Ox]

It could be turned around but when remainers claim we voted out on a lie or lies they conveniently forget they lost using a campaign based on the same. Telling the US president to lie on their behalf also is forgotten. Perhaps remain could have provided evidence the the leave campaign was flawed instead of pushing their own brand of lies. Cameron called a vote he didnt need to, lost a vote thought impossible and ran away when the s**t hit the fan.

So lets have a referendum based on genuine info.

I agree on Cameron.