4th Test Wed 19-23 July 2023 - Emirates Old Trafford

[OxfordBoy]

looking at the weather forecast there’s very little chance of a few hours pley

 

[Mike_H]

Come on England. Go away rain. Keep the faith.

 

[Leysboy]

Play might resume at 1pm if rain stays away.

 

[unification]

Cricket really doesn’t help itself. The fannying about for an inspection at X and then 45 minutes later we can play is so frustrating. It just allows showery days to stop everything.

There could and should be pockets of dry weather to play. Whether the umpires allow the teams to get back out there, remains to be seen.

 

[Leysboy]

Cricket really doesn’t help itself. The fannying about for an inspection at X and then 45 minutes later we can play is so frustrating. It just allows showery days to stop everything.

There could and should be pockets of dry weather to play. Whether the umpires allow the teams to get back out there, remains to be seen.

Yeah I agree, it doesn’t make sense to have an inspection, then decide on having lunch, and then potentially have some play.

Get started and have a delayed lunch simple.

Having said that we’d be quite happy if we were in Australias position. It’s just frustrating, that the weather could spoil a great series, that I think England have been the best over the 4 test matches. Why did we go for that aggressive declaration in the first test.

I’m still hopeful and optimistic we will get some play, but if the umpires decide no fast bowlers then it’s crazy, as they will be wearing sunglasses.

 

[yellowbow]

Such a shame that a fantastic sporting event as the ashes is going to be decided by the weather. You’d like to think Australia retaining the ashes in this way would be a hollow victory but we just know that won’t be the case and they will be arrogantly celebrating as if they’d beaten us 5:0.

I can’t understand why, in these circumstances an extra day can’t be allowed on Monday to finish the match.

I guess it’s our own fault for playing a game that is totally reliant on dry weather in Manchester of all places…

 

[unification]

Such a shame that a fantastic sporting event as the ashes is going to be decided by the weather. You’d like to think Australia retaining the ashes in this way would be a hollow victory but we just know that won’t be the case and they will be arrogantly celebrating as if they’d beaten us 5:0.

I can’t understand why, in these circumstances an extra day can’t be allowed on Monday to finish the match.

I guess it’s our own fault for playing a game that is totally reliant on dry weather in Manchester of all places…

And if roles are reversed, we’d be thrilled!

Weather is always part of cricket, I’m afraid. Only in some circumstances should reserve days be considered for finishing matches - the ODI/T20 World Cup final or to complete the world Test Championships final match.

It’s such a shame that the Ashes will (at the least) be retained in these circumstances.

 

[Leysboy]

No chance of play. Puddles on the outfield, and it’s lashing down.

Disappointing yes, but these venues have been selected well in advance, and whilst there are other grounds that can provide ashes cricket like Cardiff years ago. It is what it is, and we can’t do nothing about it when it comes to weather.

I’ve been to Galle (Sri Lanka) when the sun was beating down, and then 3 days completely washed out.

Zero the hero mentioned roofing on stadiums. It’s a nice thought, but the cost would be astronomical, and it just wouldn’t be the same, as cricket is an outdoors sport.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

We could have easily played an extra 3 hours in the three days we did get some play in.

It’s just so annoying and frustrating that we didn’t bat on instead of declaring all the way back in the first test. You never know of course but I think we’d have drawn that one and would now be 1-1 with all to play for…

 

[yellowbow]

We could have easily played an extra 3 hours in the three days we did get some play in.

It’s just so annoying and frustrating that we didn’t bat on instead of declaring all the way back in the first test. You never know of course but I think we’d have drawn that one and would now be 1-1 with all to play for…

All ifs buts and maybes now unfortunately.. we’ll just have to take the ashes back in two years time now. It’ll be more fun in their backyard

 

[unification]

Day washed out and Aussies retain the Ashes. A completely miserable way to retain them.

I hope the team take a leaf from the women’s team and square the series at the Oval. It would at least stop them winning the series outright.

 

[Sarge]

Day washed out and Aussies retain the Ashes. A completely miserable way to retain them.

I hope the team take a leaf from the women’s team and square the series at the Oval. It would at least stop them winning the series outright.

absolute bollox decision- couldnt an extra day have been added due to no play today ?

maybe it was suggested and the convicts with their win any which way perspective refused? I wouldn't put it past em

 

[Leysboy]

absolute bollox decision- couldnt an extra day have been added ?

That would never happen. To be fair that wouldn’t be right, just so it’s suites England. To try and get some sort of result.

Maybe we batted too long, and could have had longer at them, before putting on a fascinating run chase. The declaration on the first day of the first test has come back to haunt us.

Let’s just go to the Oval and square the series, and blitz the Aussies there.

 

[unification]

That would never happen. To be fair that wouldn’t be right, just so it’s suites England. To try and get some sort of result.

Maybe we batted too long, and could have had longer at them, before putting on a fascinating run chase. The declaration on the first day of the first test has come back to haunt us.

Let’s just go to the Oval and square the series, and blitz the Aussies there.

Yeah, it’s all it’s and but’s. I don’t think getting them in earlier would have changed much since we’ve had so little play over the weekend. The weather hasn’t played ball at all. You play the match situation too and I’m sure England would have expected some play today.

Really disappointing to see the result end this way.

 

[tonyw]

Really pretty angry with the England management right now. Yes, we were unlucky with the rain this weekend, but we've been the better team over four games and we've lost because we've repeatedly shot ourselves in the foot:

1) The first day declaration at Edgbaston. Overly aggressive nonsense. Course it's possible we could have been all out in two balls anyway, but another 30-50 runs there and we definitely wouldn't have lost the game, and could have won it

2) Brainless batting in the first innings at Lords when we fell for the most obvious trap in the book and conceded a needless 90 run first innings deficit - and lost by half of that

3) Persisting with Bairstow as keeper, and having him be the biggest culprit as we missed chance after chance through the first two and a half Tests. We have a great keeper - and one who can bat, albeit in a more sedate manner than what this England management expects - we needed to use him. And there was no need to drop Bairstow either.....see next point.....

4) We've included Moeen for three Tests and watched him get a total of six wickets at an average of 65 (almost exact in line with his career averages vs. the Aussies, by the way) while being comprehensively outbowled by Joe Root, and we've included Jimmy Anderson for three Tests and watched him get four wickets at an average of 75 and prove that Father Time is indeed unbeaten. Meanwhile Woakes, Tongue and Wood have all been massively more effective and have played five Tests between them

5) As I said over and over and over on Thursday and Friday - the weather forecast for this weekend was clearly horrific, and what has transpired was thoroughly predictable. We absolutely had to give ourselves a chance at a three day win by batting super-agressively in the morning on Friday and getting the Aussies in before lunch to give ourselves a shot at bowling them out that day. But the one time when hyper-aggression was clearly needed, England went conservative instead.


And by the way, this comes immediately on the back of blowing the series in New Zealand as well by idiotically enforcing the follow on when we could and should have batted them out of the game.

The difference between the two sides this Ashes is that one sticks to its principles and hopes to win, while the other will do literally anything to win. And while I certainly don't want to see England ever behaving like this Aussie side - there's a middle ground that we need to find to compete with them. One where Vaughn and Strauss' sides always managed to sit - play honestly and honorably but have a ruthless streak. The current England management have done a wonderful job in clearing the players' minds and giving them the freedom to go and out and perform, but they have the ruthlessness of a sponge.

 

[Foley]

Really pretty angry with the England management right now. Yes, we were unlucky with the rain this weekend, but we've been the better team over four games and we've lost because we've repeatedly shot ourselves in the foot:

1) The first day declaration at Edgbaston. Overly aggressive nonsense. Course it's possible we could have been all out in two balls anyway, but another 30-50 runs there and we definitely wouldn't have lost the game, and could have won it

2) Brainless batting in the first innings at Lords when we fell for the most obvious trap in the book and conceded a needless 90 run first innings deficit - and lost by half of that

3) Persisting with Bairstow as keeper, and having him be the biggest culprit as we missed chance after chance through the first two and a half Tests. We have a great keeper - and one who can bat, albeit in a more sedate manner than what this England management expects - we needed to use him. And there was no need to drop Bairstow either.....see next point.....

4) We've included Moeen for three Tests and watched him get a total of six wickets at an average of 65 (almost exact in line with his career averages vs. the Aussies, by the way) while being comprehensively outbowled by Joe Root, and we've included Jimmy Anderson for three Tests and watched him get four wickets at an average of 75 and prove that Father Time is indeed unbeaten. Meanwhile Woakes, Tongue and Wood have all been massively more effective and have played five Tests between them

5) As I said over and over and over on Thursday and Friday - the weather forecast for this weekend was clearly horrific, and what has transpired was thoroughly predictable. We absolutely had to give ourselves a chance at a three day win by batting super-agressively in the morning on Friday and getting the Aussies in before lunch to give ourselves a shot at bowling them out that day. But the one time when hyper-aggression was clearly needed, England went conservative instead.


And by the way, this comes immediately on the back of blowing the series in New Zealand as well by idiotically enforcing the follow on when we could and should have batted them out of the game.

The difference between the two sides this Ashes is that one sticks to its principles and hopes to win, while the other will do literally anything to win. And while I certainly don't want to see England ever behaving like this Aussie side - there's a middle ground that we need to find to compete with them. One where Vaughn and Strauss' sides always managed to sit - play honestly and honorably but have a ruthless streak. The current England management have done a wonderful job in clearing the players' minds and giving them the freedom to go and out and perform, but they have the ruthlessness of a sponge.

I kind of agree Tony, but would say that in the past 2 Tests England have been fantastic.
Without this awful weather, we probably would have won the series 3 2.
England appear to have improved in their game management from the first 2 Tests ( more sensible batting even if still very aggressive)

 

[NorthernExile]

Really pretty angry with the England management right now. Yes, we were unlucky with the rain this weekend, but we've been the better team over four games and we've lost because we've repeatedly shot ourselves in the foot:

1) The first day declaration at Edgbaston. Overly aggressive nonsense. Course it's possible we could have been all out in two balls anyway, but another 30-50 runs there and we definitely wouldn't have lost the game, and could have won it

2) Brainless batting in the first innings at Lords when we fell for the most obvious trap in the book and conceded a needless 90 run first innings deficit - and lost by half of that

3) Persisting with Bairstow as keeper, and having him be the biggest culprit as we missed chance after chance through the first two and a half Tests. We have a great keeper - and one who can bat, albeit in a more sedate manner than what this England management expects - we needed to use him. And there was no need to drop Bairstow either.....see next point.....

4) We've included Moeen for three Tests and watched him get a total of six wickets at an average of 65 (almost exact in line with his career averages vs. the Aussies, by the way) while being comprehensively outbowled by Joe Root, and we've included Jimmy Anderson for three Tests and watched him get four wickets at an average of 75 and prove that Father Time is indeed unbeaten. Meanwhile Woakes, Tongue and Wood have all been massively more effective and have played five Tests between them

5) As I said over and over and over on Thursday and Friday - the weather forecast for this weekend was clearly horrific, and what has transpired was thoroughly predictable. We absolutely had to give ourselves a chance at a three day win by batting super-agressively in the morning on Friday and getting the Aussies in before lunch to give ourselves a shot at bowling them out that day. But the one time when hyper-aggression was clearly needed, England went conservative instead.


And by the way, this comes immediately on the back of blowing the series in New Zealand as well by idiotically enforcing the follow on when we could and should have batted them out of the game.

The difference between the two sides this Ashes is that one sticks to its principles and hopes to win, while the other will do literally anything to win. And while I certainly don't want to see England ever behaving like this Aussie side - there's a middle ground that we need to find to compete with them. One where Vaughn and Strauss' sides always managed to sit - play honestly and honorably but have a ruthless streak. The current England management have done a wonderful job in clearing the players' minds and giving them the freedom to go and out and perform, but they have the ruthlessness of a sponge.

Sure, we lost/they won the Ashes, but I know which team I and cricket fans around the world would rather support. Not only are captains and players like Stokes rare, but people like him are, and while we might not get to keep an urn, as a not particularly prideful nor patriotic person, I love the way we conduct ourselves, and I'm proud to be a fan of English cricket. They're not just players to be inspired by, but people, and the future of our game is as exciting as it's ever been when we've role models like these.

If anger is going to be the overwhelming emotion as a result of this series, then this England team may not be for you.

In the words of Ben Stokes, 'It's not what you get, it's what you become.' Enjoy the urn, Aussies, I'll take the players, personalities and approach of our team every time.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

So the Aussies scraped home, well, they can hardly say that it was easy.

Very fine margins (and the cruelest of British weather) have denied us all a thrilling final run fest at the Oval.
This series has been superb and it totally deserved a finale fit for the top entertainment that it has delivered so far.
Oh well!

 

[38yearsofpain]

Really pretty angry with the England management right now. Yes, we were unlucky with the rain this weekend, but we've been the better team over four games and we've lost because we've repeatedly shot ourselves in the foot:

1) The first day declaration at Edgbaston. Overly aggressive nonsense. Course it's possible we could have been all out in two balls anyway, but another 30-50 runs there and we definitely wouldn't have lost the game, and could have won it

2) Brainless batting in the first innings at Lords when we fell for the most obvious trap in the book and conceded a needless 90 run first innings deficit - and lost by half of that

3) Persisting with Bairstow as keeper, and having him be the biggest culprit as we missed chance after chance through the first two and a half Tests. We have a great keeper - and one who can bat, albeit in a more sedate manner than what this England management expects - we needed to use him. And there was no need to drop Bairstow either.....see next point.....

4) We've included Moeen for three Tests and watched him get a total of six wickets at an average of 65 (almost exact in line with his career averages vs. the Aussies, by the way) while being comprehensively outbowled by Joe Root, and we've included Jimmy Anderson for three Tests and watched him get four wickets at an average of 75 and prove that Father Time is indeed unbeaten. Meanwhile Woakes, Tongue and Wood have all been massively more effective and have played five Tests between them

5) As I said over and over and over on Thursday and Friday - the weather forecast for this weekend was clearly horrific, and what has transpired was thoroughly predictable. We absolutely had to give ourselves a chance at a three day win by batting super-agressively in the morning on Friday and getting the Aussies in before lunch to give ourselves a shot at bowling them out that day. But the one time when hyper-aggression was clearly needed, England went conservative instead.


And by the way, this comes immediately on the back of blowing the series in New Zealand as well by idiotically enforcing the follow on when we could and should have batted them out of the game.

The difference between the two sides this Ashes is that one sticks to its principles and hopes to win, while the other will do literally anything to win. And while I certainly don't want to see England ever behaving like this Aussie side - there's a middle ground that we need to find to compete with them. One where Vaughn and Strauss' sides always managed to sit - play honestly and honorably but have a ruthless streak. The current England management have done a wonderful job in clearing the players' minds and giving them the freedom to go and out and perform, but they have the ruthlessness of a sponge.

We didn't win back The Ashes because we dropped too many catches, simple as. We could have won Test 1 and 2 if we had. Equally if Wood and Woakes were fit to play those tests we might have won them. But we didn't, but we are evolving the way test cricket will be played.
We have mentally destroyed the Australian team, they know it , we know it.
Like all competitive sport the difference between sucess and failure is always very small.
What it certainly was, was entertaining and it has brought a new generation to enjoy test cricket. That alone is far more important for the long term future of test cricket than winning this Ashes series.
Yes we made mistakes but so did Australia, it was a memorable series and a great shame the Oval will be a bit of an anti climax.

 

[holdsteady]

It’s annoying, we win back the ashes if it doesn’t rain, the convicts will never admit it but we are a better team than them. But the one plus side we can take from this is that Smith and Warner don’t live in this country, they can take a little yen home as long as those two go back with it.