2nd Test Wed 28 June-2 July 2023 - Lord's

[Sarge]

Pope out for the series!!
We're not going to call up anyone else so probably means Lawrence will play which doesn't fill me with confidence.
What they should do is bring Foakes back in at seven and move everyone else up one.
A missed opportunity for me.
Of course they could bring Mo back in but there's an even bigger risk in that.

agree re Foakes

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Or bring Woakes in and play even more bowlers!

 

[tonyw]

The way I see it is this:

The aussies didnt cheat (this time).
Bairstow was brainless.
The umpires arent at fault, they would have had to have called "over" the second the ball hit Careys gloves.
The aussies are famous for errr lets say "playing hard", our players would know this so see point 2.
The aussies will get pelters from the Headingly crowd.
The rest is about pointing the finger of blame depending on how you see it.

I don't actually think that any of your statements are incorrect......
(the Aussies didn't break any rules, Bairstow was being cavalier, the umpires didn't do anything wrong)

......and I still maintain that it was the cheapest, most cowardly, sniveling piece of play I've ever seen on a cricket field. A professional one, at least.

All of those things can be true.

 

[Foley]

I don't actually think that any of your statements are incorrect......
(the Aussies didn't break any rules, Bairstow was being cavalier, the umpires didn't do anything wrong)

......and I still maintain that it was the cheapest, most cowardly, sniveling piece of play I've ever seen on a cricket field. A professional one, at least.

All of those things can be true.

I agree. Clearly Bairstow was not looking to get any advantage. That 'stumping ' possibly eon the game for Australia. Very similar to running out a batsman backing up too much ( although in that case the batsman IS getting an advantage). In.those instances the bowler wouod normally at least warn the batsman!

 

[Sharp Edges]

Sharp Edges "I didn't say he was trying to gain an advantage, I'm not sure why that's relevant,"

I think it is hugely relevant..it makes a world of difference. If a player is trying to gain advantage and gets found out he can hardly cry foul. In a "Mankad" type situation the non-striking batsman backing up too "enthusiastically" shall we say is trying to gain an advantage and if found out by the bowler can have no complaints. Even so I think a warning initially would be appropriate and in the "spirit of the game" as I would want it played.
Equally, as Jonathan Agnew said yesterday, if the facing batsman is batting well out of his crease to negate swing and is stumped when he misses the delivery he can have no complaints as he was trying to gain advantage. However, in that situation I do not think a warning would be needed...just my opinion.

also SE.. "It seems to me its down to Cummings to be judge and executioner and he has to make an on the spot decision. I think that's unfair on him."

He is the captain..goes with the territory?

If he wasnt trying to gain an advantage then it just makes his actions all the more stupid. Bairstow has been very quiet about the incident, very wise to given he has been trying to "stump" batsmen in the same way as Carey got him out. The only difference is Carey was better at it than Bairstow, yet being better makes you a villain and not being good enough makes you a victim. Bairstow fell for his own trick, worse than brainless.

If being captain goes with the territory, I assume you think Cook should have made Broad walk when it was obvious he was out? Losing the ashes in the process.

As for McCullum, he has history and it isnt pretty. Hypocrisy level is over flowing.

Lets hope our players can do their talking with the bat today.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

If he wasnt trying to gain an advantage then it just makes his actions all the more stupid. Bairstow has been very quiet about the incident, very wise to given he has been trying to "stump" batsmen in the same way as Carey got him out. The only difference is Carey was better at it than Bairstow, yet being better makes you a villain and not being good enough makes you a victim. Bairstow fell for his own trick, worse than brainless.

If being captain goes with the territory, I assume you think Cook should have made Broad walk when it was obvious he was out? Losing the ashes in the process.

As for McCullum, he has history and it isnt pretty. Hypocrisy level is over flowing.

Lets hope our players can do their talking with the bat today.

1. ‘If he wasn’t trying to gain an advantage’ - there’s absolutely no ‘if’ about it; can you explain what advantage he could possibly have got from doing it? Because there is zero. He thought the contest between bat and ball was over (as it in fact was) and was wandering down the pitch. It gained him absolutely zero sporting or competitive advantage.

2. If you mean the ML one then no, that’s not the same and it’s strange that people keep using it when it’s totally different. If someone is batting out of their crease or swings at the ball and misses, falling out of their crease it’s absolutely fine and proper for the wicketkeeper to try and stump them; it’s part of the contest between bat and ball. Can you give any other examples of Bairstow trying to stump batters who were walking out of their crease thinking the over was finished?

3. Cook was on the balcony rather than on the field with the ability to withdraw an appeal. Again, totally different.

4. Yep McCullum did something very similar, and was roundly criticised for it, which shows that many people think it’s a bad thing. He also later apologised and has said on many occasions that he really regrets it and has since reflected and learned better. Unlike the Aussies who are still defending it and saying it’s fine - so once again, there’s a difference. Presumably you think what McCullum did was absolutely fine then?

 

[Sharp Edges]

1. ‘If he wasn’t trying to gain an advantage’ - there’s absolutely no ‘if’ about it; can you explain what advantage he could possibly have got from doing it? Because there is zero. He thought the contest between bat and ball was over (as it in fact was) and was wandering down the pitch. It gained him absolutely zero sporting or competitive advantage.

2. If you mean the ML one then no, that’s not the same and it’s strange that people keep using it when it’s totally different. If someone is batting out of their crease or swings at the ball and misses, falling out of their crease it’s absolutely fine and proper for the wicketkeeper to try and stump them; it’s part of the contest between bat and ball. Can you give any other examples of Bairstow trying to stump batters who were walking out of their crease thinking the over was finished?

3. Cook was on the balcony rather than on the field with the ability to withdraw an appeal. Again, totally different.

4. Yep McCullum did something very similar, and was roundly criticised for it, which shows that many people think it’s a bad thing. He also later apologised and has said on many occasions that he really regrets it and has since reflected and learned better. Unlike the Aussies who are still defending it and saying it’s fine - so once again, there’s a difference. Presumably you think what McCullum did was absolutely fine then?

1. He thought wrong, the contest doesnt finish until the umpire calls over. He knows this and has tried to use it to his advantage in the past but hasnt been good enough to execute.
2. I dont know the ML one. Ive read various articles from people suggesting he has been trying to do it in county cricket and tried it in the first test but missed. Perhaps they are wrong or Bairstow was just dropping the ball (again).
3. So it only goes with the territory when it suites. Yep, sounds about right.
4. McCullem ran out a guy that went to congratulate his mate on scoring 100, ive also read he did it to a batsman that congratulated his mate on scoring a maiden test 50. My point is McCullem is a hypocrite. No I dont think its fine, I think its disgusting.

Anyway, we clearly arent going to agree on this, so this will be my last post on it. I just see rank hypocrisy, you dont. Im not actually sure the players are that bothered, I keep hearing about needle and bad feeling but think this is more media drama than reality.