National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[Essexyellows]

How do you know that? How do you know how many of those who voted Leave either thought of, or didn't think of, the concept of a deal, of any sort? You don't know the answer to that any more than I do.

Because, as indicated by the electoral results, the majority wanted to leave. Leave being the horse, deal being the cart. It works that way round.......

 

[Essexyellows]

Where did the other 47-odd percent go?

Come along now......

 

[Leysboy]

Nigel Farage is the one that deserves the upmost respect here. He fought for 25 years for this, and deserves a special mention. If it wasn’t for him and UKIP putting so much pressure on the tories in particular Cameron, then the referendum wouldn’t of happened. So Cameron thinking he’d win said “if you vote tories we will give you an EU referendum”. He fell on his sword!

Nigel Farage I salute you! I just wish that he could join Johnson,Patel, and co. To see the vision of his through. Instead he must sit on the sidelines along with all the leave voters.

I think he deserves a knighthood for what he’s achieved, and all the time and energy he put in.

Leave on WTO terms in my opinion.

 

[Pete Burrett]

Because, as indicated by the electoral results, the majority wanted to leave. Leave being the horse, deal being the cart. It works that way round.......

A bizarre analogy referring to horses and carts is entirely unconvincing! I'll ask again, apart from individuals known to you or heard giving their views on the media, how many people's views on Leaving with a deal or no deal do you actually know?

 

[tonyw]

Correct, no deal was certainly a possibility, but that wasn't explicit as an aim. You can read any nuance you like into the statements that were made.

Back to the point, Leave was a referendum option, Leave with no deal was not. That's the point that some are trying to get across, but seemingly in vain.

And what I'm trying to say is that yes, the referendum left an absolute boatload of question marks as to what leaving the EU actually meant.

But then BoJo came along in 2019 and said "Ok, we interpret the referendum result to mean Hard Brexit. We'll try and negotiate a trade deal but there's no guarantees and we'll be out at the end of 2020 come what may. So that's what you're getting if you vote for us". He's a lying, deceitful t**t - but on this single, crucial issue in this campaign, the Tories were clear and straightforward. And 365 out of 650 constituencies voted for them.

I hate the concept of Brexit with every fibre of my being - but I believe in Britain's parliamentary democracy, and I think the 2019 GE settled this question.

So the question is no longer how do we stop Brexit from happening, because that ship has sailed.
The key should be how can an effective opposition be formed so that BoJo and co. are properly held to account, and hopefully don't take an independent Britain down the drain, which is a decidedly non-negligible risk.

 

[Essexyellows]

A bizarre analogy referring to horses and carts is entirely unconvincing! I'll ask again, apart from individuals known to you or heard giving their views on the media, how many people's views on Leaving with a deal or no deal do you actually know?

The "deal" or "no deal" is a moot point.
The initial question on the ballot paper was Leave or Remain. Nothing about deal`s.
Subsequently the electorate reinforced that "Leave" message rather vigorously irrespective of the electoral method.

 

[m]

Nigel Farage is the one that deserves the upmost respect here. He fought for 25 years for this, and deserves a special mention. If it wasn’t for him and UKIP putting so much pressure on the tories in particular Cameron, then the referendum wouldn’t of happened. So Cameron thinking he’d win said “if you vote tories we will give you an EU referendum”. He fell on his sword!

Nigel Farage I salute you! I just wish that he could join Johnson,Patel, and co. To see the vision of his through. Instead he must sit on the sidelines along with all the leave voters.

I think he deserves a knighthood for what he’s achieved, and all the time and energy he put in.

Leave on WTO terms in my opinion.

2/10

Transparent effort. Score would have been worse were it not for entertaining use of the word 'upmost'.

 

[Pete Burrett]

And what I'm trying to say is that yes, the referendum left an absolute boatload of question marks as to what leaving the EU actually meant.

But then BoJo came along in 2019 and said "Ok, we interpret the referendum result to mean Hard Brexit. We'll try and negotiate a trade deal but there's no guarantees and we'll be out at the end of 2020 come what may. So that's what you're getting if you vote for us". He's a lying, deceitful t**t - but on this single, crucial issue in this campaign, the Tories were clear and straightforward. And 365 out of 650 constituencies voted for them.

I hate the concept of Brexit with every fibre of my being - but I believe in Britain's parliamentary democracy, and I think the 2019 GE settled this question.

So the question is no longer how do we stop Brexit from happening, because that ship has sailed.
The key should be how can an effective opposition be formed so that BoJo and co. are properly held to account, and hopefully don't take an independent Britain down the drain, which is a decidedly non-negligible risk.

Well, yes, that's democracy for you. Bojo decides to interpret Leave as he prefers (hard Brexit). He wins a resounding election and presumably deduces that hard Brexit is therefore indeed what the people want. Big assumption, but I think we can leave it there.

 

[SteMerritt]

Come along now......
View attachment 4820

Thanks, pet hate is people using half the stats when trying to make a point. And I'd suggest that I'd you add LD, Green and SNP, all remain parties, then Leave didn't really win that election...

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Come along now......
View attachment 4820

So Brexit, Conservative and UKIP got 43% of the vote while the other ‘remain’ parties got 57%. Not sure that constitutes a thumping message from the nation when you look at what’s actually there - it’s incomparable to the manner in which a referendum takes place, where every vote goes into one pot or the other. Likewise, we all know a general election and the way the seats are won isn’t as straight forward as has been presented. You can have a constituency where four parties are on offer - one ‘leave’ and three ‘remain’ - and the leave party can get 40% of the vote and take the seat, purely because the others split the vote and cannibalise each other. In terms of the popular vote in December’s general election, Labour, Lib Dem, Green and SNP between them took more than 50%. That isn’t how seats are won, no arguments there, but it is another stack of data that goes against this notion that the UK is still in favour of leaving on a person to person basis. The opposition parties couldn’t find a way to coexist, and as a result they couldn’t get around the systems that were in place versus a party that basically stood on its own. That’s just how it is, but let’s be up front about that. We had two general elections that we weren’t ‘supposed’ to have between the referendum and leaving, but a second referendum was treated as utter blasphemy. There is a reason for that when you look at the popular vote data of both the 2019 general and EU elections. They knew what was more likely to happen than not, and they were successful in avoiding that.

At the end of the day, there’s no such thing as a remainer anymore, because you can’t remain in a club you’ve already walked out of. We are where we are, but let’s just be straight up about it. A smash and grab is still a win, after all. Does it need to be dressed up as anything else? Three points are three points, as they say.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Well, yes, that's democracy for you. Bojo decides to interpret Leave as he prefers (hard Brexit). He wins a resounding election and presumably deduces that hard Brexit is therefore indeed what the people want. Big assumption, but I think we can leave it there.

I might not mind so much if anything Boris had previously done hadn't turned out to be an underwhelming, gaffe-ridden pile of plop. You just know this will go the same way...and Boris in usual fashion will ride off into the sunset with hardly a hair ruffled on his ridiculous barnet.....and of course with not so much as a penny of his personal fortune lost.

Farage will.be remembered for this....they're naming a lorry park in Kent after him don't you know!

 

[Sheik djibouti]

So Brexit, Conservative and UKIP got 43% of the vote while the other ‘remain’ parties got 57%. Not sure that constitutes a thumping message from the nation when you look at what’s actually there - it’s incomparable to the manner in which a referendum takes place, where every vote goes into one pot or the other. Likewise, we all know a general election and the way the seats are won isn’t as straight forward as has been presented. You can have a constituency where four parties are on offer - one ‘leave’ and three ‘remain’ - and the leave party can get 40% of the vote and take the seat, purely because the others split the vote and cannibalise each other. In terms of the popular vote in December’s general election, Labour, Lib Dem, Green and SNP between them took more than 50%. That isn’t how seats are won, no arguments there, but it is another stack of data that goes against this notion that the UK is still in favour of leaving on a person to person basis. The opposition parties couldn’t find a way to coexist, and as a result they couldn’t get around the systems that were in place versus a party that basically stood on its own. That’s just how it is, but let’s be up front about that. We had two general elections that we weren’t ‘supposed’ to have between the referendum and leaving, but a second referendum was treated as utter blasphemy. There is a reason for that when you look at the popular vote data of both the 2019 general and EU elections. They knew what was more likely to happen than not, and they were successful in avoiding that.

At the end of the day, there’s no such thing as a remainer anymore, because you can’t remain in a club you’ve already walked out of. We are where we are, but let’s just be straight up about it. A smash and grab is still a win, after all. Does it need to be dressed up as anything else? Three points are three points, as they say.

Yeah but remain would be top on goal difference over the 2 fixtures of the referendum and the EU election [emoji6]

 

[Leysboy]

2/10

Transparent effort. Score would have been worse were it not for entertaining use of the word 'upmost'.

Well we can’t always spell a word correctly.

Not sure what the 2/10 is supposed to mean. It 100% true!

 

[tonyw]

We had two general elections that we weren’t ‘supposed’ to have between the referendum and leaving, but a second referendum was treated as utter blasphemy. There is a reason for that when you look at the popular vote data of both the 2019 general and EU elections. They knew what was more likely to happen than not, and they were successful in avoiding that.

We should never have had a first referendum is the problem.
Britain is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy like Switzerland. We don't know how to do a proper referendum, and it sure has shown in the past four years.

Cameron is the real villain in all of this. He started the Brexit ball rolling solely as a way to shut up his own backbenchers and avoid losing seats to Farage. His blatant attempts to shore up his own power have led to fundamental changes to the country, and Britain's place in the world, that he never wanted or intended.

 

[Sharp Edges]

So Brexit, Conservative and UKIP got 43% of the vote while the other ‘remain’ parties got 57%. Not sure that constitutes a thumping message from the nation when you look at what’s actually there - it’s incomparable to the manner in which a referendum takes place, where every vote goes into one pot or the other. Likewise, we all know a general election and the way the seats are won isn’t as straight forward as has been presented. You can have a constituency where four parties are on offer - one ‘leave’ and three ‘remain’ - and the leave party can get 40% of the vote and take the seat, purely because the others split the vote and cannibalise each other. In terms of the popular vote in December’s general election, Labour, Lib Dem, Green and SNP between them took more than 50%. That isn’t how seats are won, no arguments there, but it is another stack of data that goes against this notion that the UK is still in favour of leaving on a person to person basis. The opposition parties couldn’t find a way to coexist, and as a result they couldn’t get around the systems that were in place versus a party that basically stood on its own. That’s just how it is, but let’s be up front about that. We had two general elections that we weren’t ‘supposed’ to have between the referendum and leaving, but a second referendum was treated as utter blasphemy. There is a reason for that when you look at the popular vote data of both the 2019 general and EU elections. They knew what was more likely to happen than not, and they were successful in avoiding that.

At the end of the day, there’s no such thing as a remainer anymore, because you can’t remain in a club you’ve already walked out of. We are where we are, but let’s just be straight up about it. A smash and grab is still a win, after all. Does it need to be dressed up as anything else? Three points are three points, as they say.

At the time i believe the Labour party policy on Brexit was "to honour the result of the referendum", not sure how that puts them in the remain camp.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Nigel Farage is the one that deserves the upmost respect here. He fought for 25 years for this, and deserves a special mention. If it wasn’t for him and UKIP putting so much pressure on the tories in particular Cameron, then the referendum wouldn’t of happened. So Cameron thinking he’d win said “if you vote tories we will give you an EU referendum”. He fell on his sword!

Nigel Farage I salute you! I just wish that he could join Johnson,Patel, and co. To see the vision of his through. Instead he must sit on the sidelines along with all the leave voters.

I think he deserves a knighthood for what he’s achieved, and all the time and energy he put in.

Leave on WTO terms in my opinion.

Could you explain WTO terms and their benefits?

 

[m]

Well we can’t always spell a word correctly.

Not sure what the 2/10 is supposed to mean. It 100% true!

It was a poor attempt at a wind-up so I gave it a suitably low rating.

 

[Essexyellows]

Thanks, pet hate is people using half the stats when trying to make a point. And I'd suggest that I'd you add LD, Green and SNP, all remain parties, then Leave didn't really win that election...

Voting doesn`t work like that in most polls. You can`t add up the losers and say they "won".

Although I do support a proper PR system starting at local Council level, more people would be engaged with politics if they thought their vote mattered locally.

 

[SteMerritt]

Voting doesn`t work like that in most polls. You can`t add up the losers and say they "won".

But that's exactly what you did... ?

 

[SteMerritt]

Although I do support a proper PR system starting at local Council level, more people would be engaged with politics if they thought their vote mattered locally.

Completely agree, it's a shame that when the Lib Dems got into coalition the proposal they managed to get a vote on was watered down and killed off by hostile press and an apothetic public. A chance wasted to change things.