How will you vote on Thursday?

Who will you vote for in the EU elections?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 12 13.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Lib Dem

    Votes: 25 28.1%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 42 47.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • Total voters
    89
  • Poll closed .
Manorlounger said:
Out of, currently, 750 MEPs. 73 represent the UK. Less than 10%.

Currently, Germany has 96, France 74, Italy 73, Spain 54, Poland 51, etc. etc.

Of course the EU isn't working for the UK.
Click to expand...

Um, it's not that surprising or unfair though, is it?

I mean number of MEPs is roughly scaled with population - with the only exception being that they have a floor of 6 MEPs per country so the tiny nations like Malta & Luxembourg get overrepresented, and the biggest nations get slightly underrepresented.

In that respect, the EU works for no single nation. It's designed to make decisions that benefit the majority of Europeans. Because of course it is.

The only way this is threatening is if you fundamentally believe that what is good for the majority of Europeans is not good for Britain - because you believe that we are exceptional or different to other Europeans.
(although of course even then, there are decisions in a range of the most significant policy areas that cannot be imposed on the UK)

Which, I suppose, at the end of the day is what this whole debate is really about...….
 
Pete Burrett said:
Yes, but that wasn't the question asked. If a more specific option were available than just 'leave' the logic for wanting another referendum to decide HOW we leave would have been unnecessary. As it is, the logic remains.
Click to expand...

The question asked was simple....
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

To do the complex things you have to decide what the end point is first. EG: Leave the EU.
Forever moving the parameters means you achieve the square root of feck all and it is the uncertainty that is damaging & costly.
 
Yes but if you asked 'Should the UK reduce air pollution as near zero as possible?" (a perfectly laudable aim and an end point many people would agree with) and on getting a 'Yes' vote then informed everyone that their cars were to be immediately scrapped and they couldn't fly to Majorca any more but you had no idea how they were going to get to work or go on holiday by any other means, people would be rightly miffed that the consequences of their vote weren't explained before they made it!

(Of course, some people would say that it was OK because they can walk to work and holiday in a tent in their back garden.)

The reason many MPs including Brexiteers don't want to 'just leave' is that basically it's a stupid and economically crippling idea. A Brexit party candidate has said that people are willing to be poorer for 30 years to leave the EU (https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-party-eu-elections-lucy-harris-economy-30-years-8919786) - and Rees-Mogg thinks it will be 50 years before we know whether leaving at all is a good idea (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566).

Maybe the original question should have been:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union (with all it's annoyances, bureaucracy and creeping federalism, but also it's security, cooperation and high standards in workers and personal rights, trade, the environment and justice) or leave the European Union (which will very probably mean economic hardship and uncertainty, but you can have a blue passport, eat straight bananas all day long and the elite will profit from your financial misfortune and lack of a job - so that's all right then)? ;)
 
Essexyellows said:
The question asked was simple....
"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

To do the complex things you have to decide what the end point is first. EG: Leave the EU.
Forever moving the parameters means you achieve the square root of feck all and it is the uncertainty that is damaging & costly.
Click to expand...
And therein lies the obvious nonsense. Such an ill defined question with no reference to the ramifications, never mind the diversity of political opinion post referendum, has resulted in the mess we now find ourselves in. The question should never have been presented in such an uninforming way. It's a bit like asking the country 'as the NHS is failing to deliver on waiting times, should we scrap it and start again?', relying on a combination of subjective opinions and emotive reactions to inform the outcome.
Surely a more intelligent approach would have been to draw up an independently informed pro's and cons of staying or leaving, educating the voter in their choice of answer. Certainly there would still be a number of unknowns, but minds greater than my own are perfectly able to forecast and take variables into account to some large extent. Economists and research departments do this all the time.
 
I get it now, all of us who voted "leave" were simply uninformed. And all those who voted "remain" were wise enough to know better.

So, we need another vote preceded by classes for all to learn how to vote in future.

It's all so simple really.
 
Manorlounger said:
I get it now, all of us who voted "leave" were simply uninformed. And all those who voted "remain" were wise enough to know better.

So, we need another vote preceded by classes for all to learn how to vote in future.

It's all so simple really.
Click to expand...

Also, some remain voters have been turned away from the polls today. So obviously if Brexit Party do well the vote was unfair.

If the Brexit Party don't do well, we'll never hear about the "administrative difficulties" again.

You raging xenophobe.
 
Manorlounger said:
I get it now, all of us who voted "leave" were simply uninformed. And all those who voted "remain" were wise enough to know better.

So, we need another vote preceded by classes for all to learn how to vote in future.

It's all so simple really.
Click to expand...

The leave vote was uninformed in the sense that there was no definition of what leave actually meant. There still isn't.

That's not to suggest that leave voters didn't have many valid arguments for wishing to leave the EU - they clearly did.
 
Manorlounger said:
I think you would be wise to retract this accusation. (or look up the definition and then give your reasoning)
Click to expand...

Hi M,

Would appear to be a bit of a whoosh there, I meant it in a sarcastic sense. Mod has been in touch to let me know it might be misinterpreted. Apologies for any confusion there.

I don't think you're a xenophobe.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Hi M,

Would appear to be a bit of a whoosh there, I meant it in a sarcastic sense. Mod has been in touch to let me know it might be misinterpreted. Apologies for any confusion there.

I don't think you're a xenophobe.
Click to expand...
Apology accepted.
 
Manorlounger said:
I get it now, all of us who voted "leave" were simply uninformed. And all those who voted "remain" were wise enough to know better.

So, we need another vote preceded by classes for all to learn how to vote in future.

It's all so simple really.
Click to expand...
Oh dear....sadly you reflect what I'm saying. So, explain to me what you knew about leaving, it's implications and benefits, given that you knew what you were voting for, and that there was no explanation about what leaving meant.
 
Interestingly the votes on here show no less than 87 votes and not one for the Tories.
Amusing to think that the party want May to leave with some credit. Looks to me like people on here of all persuasion think May is a terrible PM.
She’s due to resign today if reports are right, and exiting after the Trump visit and by election in Peterborough. I’m not too sure what can be read into the outcome of that result.
Interesting times ahead that’s for sure.
There must still be questions over whether we will actually leave the EU, even if Brexit as expected score a massive win in the EU elections.
I think the final straw for the Conservatives was the compromise deal to Labour over the second referendum and customs union, which was seen as a capitulation.
Announcement expected at 900am from Downing Street
 
Peterdev said:
Interestingly the votes on here show no less than 87 votes and not one for the Tories.
Amusing to think that the party want May to leave with some credit. Looks to me like people on here of all persuasion think May is a terrible PM.
She’s due to resign today if reports are right, and exiting after the Trump visit and by election in Peterborough. I’m not too sure what can be read into the outcome of that result.
Interesting times ahead that’s for sure.
There must still be questions over whether we will actually leave the EU, even if Brexit as expected score a massive win in the EU elections.
I think the final straw for the Conservatives was the compromise deal to Labour over the second referendum and customs union, which was seen as a capitulation.
Announcement expected at 900am from Downing Street
Click to expand...
Agree. The Maybot has disenfranchised a lot of her core vote and party in quite a spectacular way - it started with the Chequers Deal and has gone downhill from there. She didn't and didn't communicate.

It's always sad to see anyone limp out like this, but she did it to herself.
 
The good thing will be I shouldn't have to read the word 'Maybot' ever again.
 
Mrs May ? Going Going Gone June 7th thank god. Now let’s get somebody in, who can deliver a proper Brexit that 17.4 million people voted for.

I think I might have a beer ?
 
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