HMRC?

myles said:
Well, quite. That would be a pretty low move though, not paying an outstanding tax bill and letting the new owner deal with it instead.

EDIT: It's also worth remembering that Darryl is supposedly still involved with the club, at least at some level, so it's not as if this is something which could've been missed in a "clean break" transaction.
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I'd guess that the takeover involved the club agreeing a statement of assets and liabilities as at for instance 31 Jan, and that Tiger would then be responsible for those assets and liabilities going forward.

So if there was a VAT bill due or PAYE and NIC, then it's up to Tiger to finance the club and pay those liabilities which he should have known about when he bought the club.

The alternative being that Darryl leaves say £500K in a club bank account and increases the price of the club by £500K, which Tiger still has to pay?
 
LowerSouth said:
HMRC do not issue a winding up petition for missing one payment.
For quite some time now, I felt that we are a ship with a Captain and no officers.
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From the other thread talking about this:

Iirc, HMRC don't muck around with football clubs who are late paying after being burnt in the past and with clubs like Southend using it as an overdraft facility. Again iirc, they pretty much go straight to the nuclear option of the Courts.
 
The Hawk said:
A major relief in the short term

Still, how do you forget to pay a tax bill?

Dear old tiger really needs to up his game.
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Sorry, just for clarity, do you buy the club's version of events or do you still think it's 'long-standing'?
 
yellowbow said:
On a side note, does anybody know who this Ed Hawkins is and why he has some sort of agenda against us? That tweet wasn’t exactly written from a neutral perspective.
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Ask him @thehawk
 
Why’s it uneccessary and unhelpful to tweet that my club hadn't paid its tax bill?

Should we try to keep it secret?
 
This can have serious consequences for the club. The implication that any bill/account is left unpaid is a sign of either very poor management or financial irregularities.
The bickering that goes on following debate on here is pathetic. Childish point scoring is diverting attention from a serious lapse by the club. It matters not one iota who raised the issue or through what motivation.
 
Sorry guys and gals, leave your Charlie vs me or who or what aside for a minute.

This is one monumental event. No debt gets called in moments after its due. Either someone hasnt been paying the bills or something somewhere has gone horendously wrong.


This isnt an "oh I didnt see that bill in the inbox" issue, this is a decision over a number of months to not pay VAT or Tax. it can lead to administration and points deductions.

Leave the you vs him aside for a minute, lets not try and points score. lets find out what the f**k has gone on first.
 
The Hawk said:
Why’s it uneccessary and unhelpful to tweet that my club hadn't paid its tax bill?

Should we try to keep it secret?
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I would like to say that it is unbelievable that the messenger is being shot, but with a cabal of OUFC fans on here nothing surprises me. They will do anything, literally anything, to protect their hero ("the best chairman we ever had, Oi tell you") from criticism. So it becomes your and Mark's fault for revealing it, rather than his fault for not paying it and imperilling the club's reputation at a crucial time.

At the very, very, very best it is yet another indication that the running of the club has been, and remains, an utter shambles. I actually derive no pleasure from saying "I told you so".... why would I? I am furious. And utterly, continuously aghast that so many OUFC fans have forgotten the lessons of 20-25 years ago and are wandering around in a sort of Moonie-like daze. Wake up, for heaven's sake (as T Rosser has). We are a total joke... managerless, stadium-less, massively loss-making, loaded up with hard debt, with an owner who - in four months of asking - hasn't even managed to say what his plans are for the club.
Jesus we need a win tomorrow. And then we need to start pressing very, very hard for answers. Because this Moonie act clearly isn't working.
 
Dave T said:
And you don’t think a takeover where different people are taking different responsibilities to normal might mean it just got missed, forgotten about or assumed the other had paid it. The final demand was made, it was paid, we had the money to do so. That’s the end of it. If it happens again under tigers watch then that is cause for concern, as it would show it wasn’t done in error. If anyone can prove that was the case then great. so far it was being made out to be far worse than it was.
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No, Dave. It was not "the final demand". Being taken to court is what happens when you do not respond to the fifth and final demand. Even if the previous five "demands" were somehow mislaid "in error", it is cause for concern at just how shambolic things are.
As for somehow forgetting who was responsible for it, was the DD not done by a qualified accountant.
Please, please stop defending this. You are looking like Comical Ali, as the tanks rumbled in behind him.
 
HMRC Will issue a winding up order if an oustanding debt is not paid after 21 days of informing that company that it is going to proceed. this will usually happen 60-90 days after an unpaid bill.

That means we've not paid our tax for since perhaps November.
 
As I’ve said, if things need bringing to light then I’m all for it but I’m getting a little bit tired with the negative agendas against the club. I just thing ‘no manager, no money, not many points’ is a little bit unnessecary. But I understand people’s frustrations and I was also critical of Tiger initially. However there are signs that he wants to turn things round and we still wait to see who he unearths as manager. However people seem ready to stick the boot in as soon as possible now which I don’t think is too helpful while I’m not even sure who people are angry at anymore. DE, Tiger, each other..? Maybe we should find out what has happened first before firing our weapons, we’ll at least know who to aim at then

What do people want? Mass protests at tomorrow’s game with banners saying ‘Tiger out! - sack the board!’ What then? Then where do we go? Who takes the club on then? And how does all this help the team on the field?
 
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Dave T- two big questions for me

1) If Tiger didnt know about the debt. How!!? that is a huge question for his due dilligence team, what other skeletons are in the cupboard, who else is owed money, is Kassam up to date?

2) If Tiger did know about the debt, why didnt it get cleared asap? one thing you do when buying a company with debt is repay the debt or raise a creditors meeting to part pay, however you never ever ever keep in debt with the HMRC.

Did Pep leave because of cash issues? it raises a bunch of other questions here
 
This Tiger takeover has apparently been in the offing since May last year when the plug was pulled on the Sartori (due to Tiger's interest offering a higher return).

So at some point between then and 21 Feb, Eales and Tiger have agreed a deal I assume based on known assets and liabilities of the club including whatever bank accounts were there and what was owed to Eales/Ensco.

My guess is perhaps as far back as January or earlier the deal is done on the basis that Tiger puts the cash in to settle bills - but then the takeover has dragged on and on, perhaps fit and proper tests etc. Meanwhile assuming the players get paid, but accounts get told not to pay the big bills like HMRC because Tiger will be buying the club and putting the money in to pay them.

So reminders turn up, but the takeover means nothing is done until the winding up petition goes in?

Just guessing of course.

Other guesses could be that Tiger has been having trouble finding the cash to fund all this, hence only paying on the winding up petition, and who knows where he got the money from?
 
yellowbow said:
As I’ve said, if things need bringing to light then I’m all for it but I’m getting a little bit tired with the negative agendas against the club. I just thing ‘no manager, no money, not many points’ is a little bit unnessecary. But I understand people’s frustrations and I was also critical of Tiger initially. However there are signs that he wants to turn things round and we still wait to see who he unearths as manager. However people seem ready to stick the boot in as soon as possible now which I don’t think is too helpful while I’m not even sure who people are angry at anymore. DE, Tiger, each other..? Maybe we should find out what has happened first before firing our weapons, we’ll at least know who to aim at then

What do people want? Mass protests at tomorrow’s game with banners saying ‘Tiger out! - sack the board!’ On them? Then where do we go? Who takes the club on then? And how does all this help the team on the field?
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I don’t think it’s negativity per se. We as fans are so short of answers to burning questions at the minute that some posters are going in search of them. What they’re finding isn’t pretty – from departing directors to unpaid tax bills leading to winding-up orders.

That’s not negativity, it’s all fact. However, they are questions that the OM and Rad Ox should be asking and Oxford United FC should be clear with the fan base what these things mean. Why is that fans with a curious mind and the right searches in Google can find this sort of stuff faster than the press can or well ahead of the club having to answer questions on it?

The negativity on here is from a couple of posters who aren’t just sounding like broken records but are attempting to play them in every thread. Added to that, Charlie brands Dave T as ‘Comical Ali’ but I’d say he’s the Hugo Chavez around here – maintaining his profile by selectively answering the questions he wants to.

‘Questions Charlie won’t answer’ could be a thread of its own.
 
MarkG said:
This Tiger takeover has apparently been in the offing since May last year when the plug was pulled on the Sartori (due to Tiger's interest offering a higher return).

So at some point between then and 21 Feb, Eales and Tiger have agreed a deal I assume based on known assets and liabilities of the club including whatever bank accounts were there and what was owed to Eales/Ensco.

My guess is perhaps as far back as January or earlier the deal is done on the basis that Tiger puts the cash in to settle bills - but then the takeover has dragged on and on, perhaps fit and proper tests etc. Meanwhile assuming the players get paid, but accounts get told not to pay the big bills like HMRC because Tiger will be buying the club and putting the money in to pay them.

So reminders turn up, but the takeover means nothing is done until the winding up petition goes in?

Just guessing of course.

Other guesses could be that Tiger has been having trouble finding the cash to fund all this, hence only paying on the winding up petition, and who knows where he got the money from?
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There’s a lot of the word ‘guess’ in there. I have no problem with these things being brought to light and I don’t come on here to get into arguments. I hope people agree that I’m always respectful of others’ view points. The trouble with forums is that people’s theories and assumptions can sometimes snowball into facts and counter rumours which then lead to negativity without foundation. I’d just like to see a bit of a feel good factor going again which I think would help with the onfield problems, until I see irrefutable evidence that something crooked is indeed happening and action needs to be taken
 
Pete Burrett said:
Threads like this are the life blood of football forums! Something is happening relating to HMRC and OUFC debt. No-one really knows what, so theories abound. Nowt wrong with that. Unfortunately, despite no-one knowing what's really going on, some are tempted to connect these theories to previous thoughts of other contributors about other topics, which may or may not be relevant to the HMRC story. All a bit daft.
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Where's Oxbible when you need the real story?
 
Leysboy said:
Nothing to see here! Shut the thread down!
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Rubbish. Plenty to see and get answers from. Oxvox should be on the phone asking what the hell is going on. As s member I would what my supporters representive to be doing this . Eales has done the dirty on tiger and the coin and the fans bigtime
 
unification said:
I don’t think it’s negativity per se. We as fans are so short of answers to burning questions at the minute that some posters are going in search of them. What they’re finding isn’t pretty – from departing directors to unpaid tax bills leading to winding-up orders.

That’s not negativity, it’s all fact. However, they are questions that the OM and Rad Ox should be asking and Oxford United FC should be clear with the fan base what these things mean. Why is that fans with a curious mind and the right searches in Google can find this sort of stuff faster than the press can or well ahead of the club having to answer questions on it?

The negativity on here is from a couple of posters who aren’t just sounding like broken records but are attempting to play them in every thread. Added to that, Charlie brands Dave T as ‘Comical Ali’ but I’d say he’s the Hugo Chavez around here – maintaining his profile by selectively answering the questions he wants to.

‘Questions Charlie won’t answer’ could be a thread of its own.
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You are one of the few people who can bitch at people for "negativity" on a day when it becomes clear that a winding up petition has been served on the club.

In fact, it is precisely the fans with "negative" mindsets who are the "curious" ones you note who find stuff out. It is the ones determined to wander around in a sort of hero-worshipping daze who never find out anything about anything.

The "negativity" surrounding the club is NOT the fault of fans. Any of us. Tell me a single club which would be positive whilst remaining managerless for two months, lost 7 out of 8 games, had a winding-up order filed against it, saw itself loaded up with hard debt to one former owner, whilst continuing to be in the palm of another former owner with regards to the stadium.

As a side point, please feel free to PM me any questions you care to ask that you want answered and I shall do my best to do so. But presumably if I ignore you for four months then that'll be fine anyway....
 
The club is playing a game of chicken with Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs concerning the payment of tax liabilities whilst the team are being dragged into a relegation battle with no leadership on or off the field - yet still fans are engaging in petty point scoring with each other! Time for a ceasefire and take stock of the seriousness of the situation, non?
 
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