Give Robinson some slack

[Foley]

Still a billion percent Robbo out for me.

Tactically inept bar one or two displays, disastrous summer transfers, some truly awful displays and results, rooted to the bottom four most of the season, talks utter shite.

So he has been tactically inept except for one or two games.
Presumably you are suggesting that tactics are not particularly important?

 

[Millman]

I don’t disagree with most of what you say, but in terms of getting the squad settled early; it’s rather wishful, but I think KR needs a reasonable amount of slack cut as in this modern world players (and agents) will ALWAYS hang on until the last minute for the best deal; and I think his hands have been tied more than we can appreciate.

As for loanees; I agree we shouldn’t RELY on them; but surely we should EMBRACE the system, it would be folly not to make the best of it. It’s about selecting the correct loanees which in the case of Sam Smith and to an extent Luke Garbutt - we probably didn’t. But it does open up a quality of player not otherwise available at a knockdown price; we’d be mad to have less than the maximum available; competition for places nothing but a good thing.

Finally; I’ll get the usual pelters for saying so, but previous injury record doesn’t predict future injury record; unless there’s some underlying predisposition, almost all injuries are freak events. Gotta trust the club’s medical staff on this. Sometimes they will get it wrong, sometimes there will be acts of God. However disappointing, Ricky Holmes was worth it for the goal at Sunderland alone. If his luck was any better, chances are good we’d be a few points better off by now and not struggling.

I was talking about getting the core squad assembled early. There is no doubt the disastrous start to the season was partly due to the us still signing players after we had started playing matches. Made much worse by the players we then signed had no preseason and took a lot of time to get fit and integrated. Getting your core squad settled is a must. You need to be able to compete from day one. You then add some of the last minute buys to enhance the squad and make it even better.

As for loans I agree we should use them. However using them for half your first team just adds to the problem identified above. Each season you have to totally rebuild and with us this is now core parts of our team. No wonder we are not ready to play at the start of the season. MApp used to use loans as a try before you buy and this worked well for us.

I regret the FA decision to allow league 1 and 2 to extend the transfer window into the season. If anything to me it should finish a week or 2 prior to the season starting. We need to get to where other teams are in so much as we are ready earlier otherwise as we have seen a poor start could condemn you to a relegation battle.

As for injury records I think they are a fair indicator of availability (everyone predicated Hall and Obika). We have seen this before and we have seen it this season take punts on older players or those with patchy records and you are taking a gamble. Maybe this is worth it for a great player but not for more than that. Add on top of that the injuries you can't plan for and that gmble can quickly turn into a disaster. As for Holmes I disagree, was his contribution worth it if you compared to a slightly less talented player (or maybe 2 who knows what wage he was on) that could have played more games and potentially bought more strength a consistency to the team.

 

[BigCrompy]

I was talking about getting the core squad assembled early. There is no doubt the disastrous start to the season was partly due to the us still signing players after we had started playing matches. Made much worse by the players we then signed had no preseason and took a lot of time to get fit and integrated. Getting your core squad settled is a must. You need to be able to compete from day one. You then add some of the last minute buys to enhance the squad and make it even better. As for loans I agree we should use them. However using them for half your first team just adds to the problem identified above. Each season you have to totally rebuild and with us this is now core parts of our team. No wonder we are not ready to play at the start of the season. MApp used to use loans as a try before you buy and this worked well for us. I regret the FA decision to allow league 1 and 2 to extend the transfer window into the season. If anything to me it should finish a week or 2 prior to the season starting. We need to get to where other teams are in so much as we are ready earlier otherwise as we have seen a poor start could condemn you to a relegation battle.

Again, you can only sign whomever wants to sign for you. Who knows the identity of the mystery non-runner? But I'll bet KR was planning for him as being part of the squad until he decided breaking sweat wasn't on his to-do list. Don't disagree with any of your sentiments, just please realise lots of planets need to line up to get business done. It's a gamble. You cannot reasonably accuse KR of sitting on his hands.

As for injury records I think they are a fair indicator of availability (everyone predicated Hall and Obika). We have seen this before and we have seen it this season take punts on older players or those with patchy records and you are taking a gamble.

They're not a fair indicator (unless of course we're talking about a professional footballer suffering osteogenesis imperfecta). Injuries can't happen without a trauma, however minor that trauma is. A 'condition' which to be fair is what Ricky Holmes probably has - is clearly a predisposing factor to missing games of football - but then the phrase becomes "Ricky Holmes is an arthritic has-been", not "Ricky Holmes is injury-prone". I've been a quack 15 years - believe me, I'd get laughed out of town if I diagnosed anyone as "injury prone" without finding an underlying cause.

Again, my point - gotta trust the medical dept to make the call. All this belief in witchcraft, leeches, injury-proneness - is not conducive to unity beteen the club and fans.

Maybe this is worth it for a great player but not for more than that. Add on top of that the injuries you can't plan for and that gamble can quickly turn into a disaster. As for Holmes I disagree, was his contribution worth it if you compared to a slightly less talented player (or maybe 2 who knows what wage he was on) that could have played more games and potentially bought more strength a consistency to the team.

Gotta ask the reasonable question by way of response - who? Sam Smith? Luke Garbutt? All those other quality loanees who were lining up to come here?

Sheffield United are paying Holmes' wages, we'd be paying a small percentage.

Really, really disappointed by his foul run of luck, but IMHO what we could have achieved was worth any risk taken. In the end of it, KR did the smart thing and replaced him with Graham; ultimately, the right thing has happened.

Not nit-picking for the sheer ruddy hell of it - really enjoying the debate.

 

[Marked Ox]

KR wanted and made Jem Karacan a couple of offers. I think once he signed for Millwall someone panicked and we signed Hanson for an inflated fee and overlong contract. Karacan left them and went to the USA in January.

Small point, Jem Karacan signed for Central Coast Mariners in Australia.

 

[Glover]

If I was in charge I’d give the job to Chris Allen he can’t be no worse than what we have I reckon him and faz could do a great job just look at how he’s done at the youth team and he knows the club back to front, I understand it’s a different level but look at how Manchester United have changed under Ole no reason the same couldn’t happen here.

 

[m]

If I was in charge I’d give the job to Chris Allen he can’t be no worse than what we have I reckon him and faz could do a great job just look at how he’s done at the youth team and he knows the club back to front, I understand it’s a different level but look at how Manchester United have changed under Ole no reason the same couldn’t happen here.

Except Man Utd had many world class players who were under-performing horribly of course.

We are under-performing per budget but perhaps not per squad.

 

[Shaun Rice]

I know that this will not go down well on here, but I feel it needs saying.

We all know Robinson has made errors, particularly with not recruiting a striker who can score goals, and he does often let his mouth run away with him.

But looking at this season there has clearly been a time when we had an injury crisis and a time when players were coming back into the team.

During the first 12 games of the season, we picked up 6 points, at 0.5 points per game. We had a tough start, lots of injuries (not helped by some poor signings) an unfit Mackie and lots of new players trying to bed in to the club. This clearly points to some errors in transfer dealings and pre-season.

However, since those games, the club have picked up 40 points in 26 games - 1.54 points per game.

I know this is hypothetical, put if we picked up the same ratio points within that first 12 game spell we would now be on 60 points, which would put us in 6th battling it out for the playoffs. We would all be happy and praising Robinson. I have seen some good football, some good battling performances and a good team morale, so he must be doing something right.

I know we cannot take those first 12 games of the season out of the equation and we currently average 1.18 points per game, but our form from game 12 onwards has been good. People are quite rightly worried about the league position, but I can clearly see some improvements.. Our Achilles heel this season has been we have struggled to put a fully consistent run of form together so the losses are felt even more keenly.

I feel we need to stop this "Robinson out", "Coco the Clown" narrative that is going on and actually support the team and look at the upturn in form when he has had the vast majority of his squad available and fit.

I'm now going to hide in my hole and expect a lot of flack!

I know that this will not go down well on here, but I feel it needs saying.

We all know Robinson has made errors, particularly with not recruiting a striker who can score goals, and he does often let his mouth run away with him.

But looking at this season there has clearly been a time when we had an injury crisis and a time when players were coming back into the team.

During the first 12 games of the season, we picked up 6 points, at 0.5 points per game. We had a tough start, lots of injuries (not helped by some poor signings) an unfit Mackie and lots of new players trying to bed in to the club. This clearly points to some errors in transfer dealings and pre-season.

However, since those games, the club have picked up 40 points in 26 games - 1.54 points per game.

I know this is hypothetical, put if we picked up the same ratio points within that first 12 game spell we would now be on 60 points, which would put us in 6th battling it out for the playoffs. We would all be happy and praising Robinson. I have seen some good football, some good battling performances and a good team morale, so he must be doing something right.

I know we cannot take those first 12 games of the season out of the equation and we currently average 1.18 points per game, but our form from game 12 onwards has been good. People are quite rightly worried about the league position, but I can clearly see some improvements.. Our Achilles heel this season has been we have struggled to put a fully consistent run of form together so the losses are felt even more keenly.

I feel we need to stop this "Robinson out", "Coco the Clown" narrative that is going on and actually support the team and look at the upturn in form when he has had the vast majority of his squad available and fit.

I'm now going to hide in my hole and expect a lot of flack!

Firstly I don’t think you can question the support of the fans for the team. The fans have been amazing in my opinion and very forgiving. During games at least and even with poor performances we’ve backed the team. Never once has there been Robinson out chants.
After matches however I think fans are entitled to give their opinion. You can’t have a record like Robinson’s and expect fans to be happy!

I think Robinson has brought any and all criticism on himself. As you said he has made mistakes, well I think he has made loads.

Recruitment was awful in the summer but it was Robinson’s team selection that was terrible and it’s taken an age to find a team.
No wonder we lost so many games with teams with:
McMahon
Garbutt
Obika
Smith
Hanson
Norman

That was a problem with recruitment and selection. He had a top eight budget FFS!

You mentioned injuries but that was recruitment too. How were we left with just Obika up front? His injury actually helped us!
Or no cover at centre back (don’t tell me Mous is good enough there because he ain’t)
Or only one recognised left back, although Ruffles has done okay.
Or no cover on the flanks?

Why is it so hard for us to bring players in? Is because of Robinson? Certainly seemed easier under Mapp.

Only Robinson can stop the calls for his head and lucky wins against Coventry, Blackpool or hard work draws against Rochdale don’t encourage fans who watch football not results.

My biggest criticism is that on paper at least we have a very good group of players now after Jan. but still he can’t seem to get them playing.

 

[Deleted member 222]

Firstly I don’t think you can question the support of the fans for the team. The fans have been amazing in my opinion and very forgiving. During games at least and even with poor performances we’ve backed the team. Never once has there been Robinson out chants.
After matches however I think fans are entitled to give their opinion. You can’t have a record like Robinson’s and expect fans to be happy!

I think Robinson has brought any and all criticism on himself. As you said he has made mistakes, well I think he has made loads.

Recruitment was awful in the summer but it was Robinson’s team selection that was terrible and it’s taken an age to find a team.
No wonder we lost so many games with teams with:
McMahon
Garbutt
Obika
Smith
Hanson
Norman

That was a problem with recruitment and selection. He had a top eight budget FFS!

You mentioned injuries but that was recruitment too. How were we left with just Obika up front? His injury actually helped us!
Or no cover at centre back (don’t tell me Mous is good enough there because he ain’t)
Or only one recognised left back, although Ruffles has done okay.
Or no cover on the flanks?

Why is it so hard for us to bring players in? Is because of Robinson? Certainly seemed easier under Mapp.

Only Robinson can stop the calls for his head and lucky wins against Coventry, Blackpool or hard work draws against Rochdale don’t encourage fans who watch football not results.

My biggest criticism is that on paper at least we have a very good group of players now after Jan. but still he can’t seem to get them playing.

Since the end of Jan we have lost just 3 games out of 10. Won 4 and drawn 3 which suggests he can get them playing. If you add in the January league games then we have lost 5 games out of 14 in 3 months.

I don't mind people having differing views but lets try not to rewrite the facts.

 

[Berliner]

Mistakes, as in any walk of life, are unavoidable. The key point is, do you learn from them or not?
If we finish the season on a high, having worked out finally what our best formation is, then you could say that KR has "learned"...albeit late.
Is the man capable of learning from his mistakes (and luck be damned there were several) in the transfer market?
How about in his dealings with players?
How about in his public appearances?

I still can't shake the feeling that we could really do better in all areas than KR, but so long as Tiger is here he won't be going anywhere. And should that happen, all we can do is support the team and hope that the learning process is a constant one.

 

[greatunclekip]

So he has been tactically inept except for one or two games.
Presumably you are suggesting that tactics are not particularly important?

No. A couple of times ive gone away thinking hes got it bang on. Numerous times ive thought - WTAF.

 

[Millman]

Again, you can only sign whomever wants to sign for you. Who knows the identity of the mystery non-runner? But I'll bet KR was planning for him as being part of the squad until he decided breaking sweat wasn't on his to-do list. Don't disagree with any of your sentiments, just please realise lots of planets need to line up to get business done. It's a gamble. You cannot reasonably accuse KR of sitting on his hands.



They're not a fair indicator (unless of course we're talking about a professional footballer suffering osteogenesis imperfecta). Injuries can't happen without a trauma, however minor that trauma is. A 'condition' which to be fair is what Ricky Holmes probably has - is clearly a predisposing factor to missing games of football - but then the phrase becomes "Ricky Holmes is an arthritic has-been", not "Ricky Holmes is injury-prone". I've been a quack 15 years - believe me, I'd get laughed out of town if I diagnosed anyone as "injury prone" without finding an underlying cause.

Again, my point - gotta trust the medical dept to make the call. All this belief in witchcraft, leeches, injury-proneness - is not conducive to unity beteen the club and fans.



Gotta ask the reasonable question by way of response - who? Sam Smith? Luke Garbutt? All those other quality loanees who were lining up to come here?

Sheffield United are paying Holmes' wages, we'd be paying a small percentage.

Really, really disappointed by his foul run of luck, but IMHO what we could have achieved was worth any risk taken. In the end of it, KR did the smart thing and replaced him with Graham; ultimately, the right thing has happened.

Not nit-picking for the sheer ruddy hell of it - really enjoying the debate.

To some extent it is tough to get signings in early (and it sure isn't getting any easier with football agents involved). However few clubs started the season in the mess we were in. As has been mentioned under MApp this problem did not seem to affect us so badly. Part of this is keeping a core squad together and under contract, so you can pick and choose where to strengthen and when. Part of it is identifying realistic targets and getting to them very early (before the season finishes).

Last summer seemed to be an utter farce. KR kept telling us about he top players he had identified and that were coming in and yet it is hard to believe he meant the players we ended up with (if fact regarding who we did and did not get I do not believe a word KR says. His story changes to whater makes him look good). There certainly appeared to be a high degree of fantasy in how we approached this window. We are not a massive club but we have an alright budget. That should have bought us a solid squad and left enough for a bit of flair. These solid players should have been easier to attract, but instead it seems we spent our time chasing dreams.

As for injuries. I agree totally that a decent medical team should have been able to identify weaknesses and problems in players. I wonder how often though they are listened to.

Holmes is an interesting point in question, the view of the Sheffield fans was that he was a crock and so it turned out we must have seen that possibility coming. BTW I have no idea what we are paying for Holmes, I would take the point that if it was a small amount it could be a risk worth taking. Otherwise maybe the money would be better spent, not on a loan, but with a contracted player, say a decent left back. Not the sort of player that costs the earth but it would have made a big difference for us to have a decent one early in the season.

I would contend if the club was properly organised a solid core of the squad could be built before most of preseason is completed. Instead last summer we had the silly situation where we toured Ireland with half a squad (and back room staff taking part in a game). It appears other cluds can get it right, we used to do it, we must do it again or we will repeat this summer and this season over and over.

I too am really enjoying this debate, BigCrompy.

 

[Scotchegg]

Only Robinson can stop the calls for his head and lucky wins against Coventry, Blackpool or hard work draws against Rochdale don’t encourage fans who watch football not results.

Firstly, the team was set up to not concede against Coventry and Blackpool and to then hit on the break. To that end, the game plan and result were not lucky and worth sacrificing the beautiful game for.

As for playing good football you could throw in the draws against Barnsley, Sunderland and Portsmouth were we played some very good football at times. It has to be a balance and results are all that matter st this stage of the season.

Robinson is criticised for not changing the system but we've gone from effectively have wing backs at the beginning of the season with Norman and Garbutt to the greater solidity of McMahon/Long and Ruffels. He then made us more solid in the middle with Mous and the Kashi making us harder to break down. Our 4231 has a really solid 4 and 2, with Henry and Mackie being the battles that give space to Browne/Whyte/Graham/Sinclair. It may not be all flair, but it is far more effective and has parallels with how MApp changed us during his first season with us.

 

[Reynolds97]

Firstly, the team was set up to not concede against Coventry and Blackpool and to then hit on the break. To that end, the game plan and result were not lucky and worth sacrificing the beautiful game for.

As for playing good football you could throw in the draws against Barnsley, Sunderland and Portsmouth were we played some very good football at times. It has to be a balance and results are all that matter st this stage of the season.

Robinson is criticised for not changing the system but we've gone from effectively have wing backs at the beginning of the season with Norman and Garbutt to the greater solidity of McMahon/Long and Ruffels. He then made us more solid in the middle with Mous and the Kashi making us harder to break down. Our 4231 has a really solid 4 and 2, with Henry and Mackie being the battles that give space to Browne/Whyte/Graham/Sinclair. It may not be all flair, but it is far more effective and has parallels with how MApp changed us during his first season with us.

Biggest criticism I have is overall will anything change? he had time to review where we were this time last season and if anything brought us into the season even weaker? IMO this has been a totally missed opportunity look at how close the league is and teams like Doncaster battling for the play offs? I fear we will be in same position next season. Could be wrong mind and ill be first to bring it back up.

 

[Scotchegg]

Biggest criticism I have is overall will anything change? he had time to review where we were this time last season and if anything brought us into the season even weaker? IMO this has been a totally missed opportunity look at how close the league is and teams like Doncaster battling for the play offs? I fear we will be in same position next season. Could be wrong mind and ill be first to bring it back up.

It's all ifs and buts, but had Eastwood not been injured then not only would we have had a full season with one of the best keepers in the league, but it would have also freed up a loan that could have been the striker we needed. Also, Carruthers could have been the player that brought our midfield together and gave us the stability that Mous and Kashi have since given.

So with such fine margins, a little luck could have had us up in the same position as Doncaster and Charlton and we'd all be much happier. I'm not excusing some of the wider recruitment or some of the way Robinson has acted, but I wouldn't write off everything on the basis of the last 9 months!

 

[Shaun Rice]

Firstly, the team was set up to not concede against Coventry and Blackpool and to then hit on the break. To that end, the game plan and result were not lucky and worth sacrificing the beautiful game for.

This is exactly the difference between watching football and looking at results.
Anyone who looks at results says things like setup not to concede. But anyone who actually watches those games and the football played by both sides will know we were very lucky to come away with 6 points. Those teams will have walked away saying how the f**k did we lose that!
Setting up defensively means restricting and frustrating the opposition and preventing chances. Not the other team missing a hat full.
Yes we’ll take it. any way we can but let’s not kid ourselves that it was some tactical mastery but KR.

I would also say with a top 8 budget and a few solid players left over from last season we shouldn’t be defending our way through these games in the first place.

KR has under performed at almost everything he has done this season.
Summer signings
Interviews
Publicly slating players
Pre season schedule
Inaccurate assessment of performances
Management of players.
Tactics

I’m not sure it’s all him. Clearly with regards to recruitment something needs to change. That has been our major problem.
If it’s Tiger forcing players on KR then if I were him I’d walk away now.

 

[Paul Cannell]

I think Scotchers will tell you that watching games can give you the wrong impression.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Firstly I don’t think you can question the support of the fans for the team. The fans have been amazing in my opinion and very forgiving. During games at least and even with poor performances we’ve backed the team. Never once has there been Robinson out chants.
After matches however I think fans are entitled to give their opinion. You can’t have a record like Robinson’s and expect fans to be happy!

I think Robinson has brought any and all criticism on himself. As you said he has made mistakes, well I think he has made loads.

Recruitment was awful in the summer but it was Robinson’s team selection that was terrible and it’s taken an age to find a team.
No wonder we lost so many games with teams with:
McMahon
Garbutt
Obika
Smith
Hanson
Norman

That was a problem with recruitment and selection. He had a top eight budget FFS!

You mentioned injuries but that was recruitment too. How were we left with just Obika up front? His injury actually helped us!
Or no cover at centre back (don’t tell me Mous is good enough there because he ain’t)
Or only one recognised left back, although Ruffles has done okay.
Or no cover on the flanks?

Why is it so hard for us to bring players in? Is because of Robinson? Certainly seemed easier under Mapp.

Only Robinson can stop the calls for his head and lucky wins against Coventry, Blackpool or hard work draws against Rochdale don’t encourage fans who watch football not results.

My biggest criticism is that on paper at least we have a very good group of players now after Jan. but still he can’t seem to get them playing.

13 points from last 6 games?
Did you go to the Luton game? ‘Robinson out’ was sung loud and clear.

 

[Mellowyellow]

I know that this will not go down well on here, but I feel it needs saying.

We all know Robinson has made errors, particularly with not recruiting a striker who can score goals, and he does often let his mouth run away with him.

But looking at this season there has clearly been a time when we had an injury crisis and a time when players were coming back into the team.

During the first 12 games of the season, we picked up 6 points, at 0.5 points per game. We had a tough start, lots of injuries (not helped by some poor signings) an unfit Mackie and lots of new players trying to bed in to the club. This clearly points to some errors in transfer dealings and pre-season.

However, since those games, the club have picked up 40 points in 26 games - 1.54 points per game.

I know this is hypothetical, put if we picked up the same ratio points within that first 12 game spell we would now be on 60 points, which would put us in 6th battling it out for the playoffs. We would all be happy and praising Robinson. I have seen some good football, some good battling performances and a good team morale, so he must be doing something right.

I know we cannot take those first 12 games of the season out of the equation and we currently average 1.18 points per game, but our form from game 12 onwards has been good. People are quite rightly worried about the league position, but I can clearly see some improvements.. Our Achilles heel this season has been we have struggled to put a fully consistent run of form together so the losses are felt even more keenly.

I feel we need to stop this "Robinson out", "Coco the Clown" narrative that is going on and actually support the team and look at the upturn in form when he has had the vast majority of his squad available and fit.

I'm now going to hide in my hole and expect a lot of flack!

Is that slack or sack?

 

[Scotchegg]

This is exactly the difference between watching football and looking at results.
Anyone who looks at results says things like setup not to concede. But anyone who actually watches those games and the football played by both sides will know we were very lucky to come away with 6 points. Those teams will have walked away saying how the f**k did we lose that!
Setting up defensively means restricting and frustrating the opposition and preventing chances. Not the other team missing a hat full.
Yes we’ll take it. any way we can but let’s not kid ourselves that it was some tactical mastery but KR.

I would also say with a top 8 budget and a few solid players left over from last season we shouldn’t be defending our way through these games in the first place.

KR has under performed at almost everything he has done this season.
Summer signings
Interviews
Publicly slating players
Pre season schedule
Inaccurate assessment of performances
Management of players.
Tactics

I’m not sure it’s all him. Clearly with regards to recruitment something needs to change. That has been our major problem.
If it’s Tiger forcing players on KR then if I were him I’d walk away now.

If we separated results and football then Robinson would have been praised earlier in the season when we were knocking the ball around nicely but getting beat. Under MApp, he started out by wanting to play beautiful football, was reluctant to change (plan b is going back to plan a), but after results crashed he tightened things up and went back to basics. Robinson has done the same and he is seen as lucky!!

 

[Mellowyellow]

There are so many reasons that I don't want him as manager next season, reasons that ARE his fault, although he loves to blame anyone and everything else.

-He's messed up 2 transfer windows, with a budget that says we are many places below where we should be. Too many loans, too many players who were already carrying injuries. Pekalski never played a full game under kr, even when we had injuries
-Throws his own players under the bus, when it should be discussed in private.
-His post match interviews are cringe worthy, again you can always guess what he is going to say.
-We've been in a relegation battle all season.
-A player who is also a friend, said the squad were run ragged in Ireland training wise, leaving a lot of players with niggles that never came out, going into the new season. It was if he was trying to make a point about how hard things would be under him.
-If you fall foul of him forget it. The way Pekalski was treated was awful, particularly the way kr spoke about him after one of the Plymouth away games.

The minimum I expected this season was top 10, not because we have a divine right to be there but because of the budget he had to spend.
We don't support the manager we support the team, that's why we go to Coventry away, Accrington away or Bury away.