New Stadium Plans - The Triangle - Planning

[Sarge]

I think he's been told he needs to quieten down or he's done for, either by local people or thr Green Party's social media bods. He may already be halfway out the door; we'll see what happens with some complaints going in early next week against his conduct to OCC and the Green Party itself.

hes attempting to defend his and the local green party for not opposing KPC firework display ( next to SB nature reserve,) despite it being totally contrary to Green Partys national policy about animal welfare , on next-door
Apparently, the firework display is popular with residents and children

Random thought, couldn't KPC hold their annual firework display somewhere that isn't next to a nature reserve?

 

[Pgyellow]

I think the new stadium might be popular with residents and children too . . .

 

[Scotchegg]

hes attempting to defend his and the local green party for not opposing KPC firework display ( next to SB nature reserve, despite it being totally contrary to Green Partys national policy about animal welfare , on next-door
Apparently the firework display is popular with residents and children

Random thought, couldn't KPC hold their annual firework display somewhere that isn't next to a nature reserve

In my opinion, this isn't the biggest battle. Firework displays occur once a year and are generally run through organisations that bring money in for supporting other local services. If well run, they are generally a really valuable community event that are enjoyed by families.

But they need to be in large open spaces which will have natural boundaries. This will cause disruption to nature, but it's for a relatively short period of time once a year and the gains outweigh the losses. I don't know the policy of the Green Party, but generally the view is that properly controlled public displays are far safer for people and wildlife than domestic events without the same safety measures.

Where the hypocrisy exists, is the likes of Middleton and FoSB suggesting that the club and football fans will do irreversible damage to nature simply by existing. This takes no account of the measures that will be in place to minimise light and sound pollution whilst also enhancing spaces of nature around the stadium site.

What we should be saying is that Firework displays are great entertainment for families and the wider community. Oxford United is also great entertainment for families and the wider community. Their impact on nature will both be absolutely minimal, but the evidence of the Firework displays prove that nature is extremely resilient and will adapt and thrive in these new surroundings.

 

[Billyox]

hes attempting to defend his and the local green party for not opposing KPC firework display ( next to SB nature reserve,) despite it being totally contrary to Green Partys national policy about animal welfare , on next-door
Apparently, the firework display is popular with residents and children

Random thought, couldn't KPC hold their annual firework display somewhere that isn't next to a nature reserve?

Where is that?

 

[Billyox]

In my opinion, this isn't the biggest battle. Firework displays occur once a year and are generally run through organisations that bring money in for supporting other local services. If well run, they are generally a really valuable community event that are enjoyed by families.

But they need to be in large open spaces which will have natural boundaries. This will cause disruption to nature, but it's for a relatively short period of time once a year and the gains outweigh the losses. I don't know the policy of the Green Party, but generally the view is that properly controlled public displays are far safer for people and wildlife than domestic events without the same safety measures.

Where the hypocrisy exists, is the likes of Middleton and FoSB suggesting that the club and football fans will do irreversible damage to nature simply by existing. This takes no account of the measures that will be in place to minimise light and sound pollution whilst also enhancing spaces of nature around the stadium site.

What we should be saying is that Firework displays are great entertainment for families and the wider community. Oxford United is also great entertainment for families and the wider community. Their impact on nature will both be absolutely minimal, but the evidence of the Firework displays prove that nature is extremely resilient and will adapt and thrive in these new surroundings.

I think it's because last year around this time when SB was still on the table fosb were saying football fans letting of pyro near a nature reserve is very dangerous for animals

 

[Paul P]

*Apologies for the length of post but I wanted to give this the attention it deserved. This was written yesterday but life got in the way of posting!*

Hi all

Firstly can I say a massive thank you from all at OxVox for the amazing work that has been done by so many of you. It has been and remains an incredibly busy time at the moment and we have an update due but I wanted the chance to say that here. Thank you! You continue to prove opposition stereotypes about football fans a nonsense.

I also wanted to address the formation of a separate group to stand against those opponents. Firstly I would say that it’s not my place to tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t do. Our fanbase has fantastic, intelligent and energetic supporters and seeing them engaging for the good of the club is heartening.

I do however wonder if a separate group solely founded to attack or counter a certain group of opponents may not be counter productive. I realise the massive frustration many of you feel when you see our club and fanbase attacked. Please don’t think we don’t share it. Nothing would be more enjoyable than to reply in kind, but from the start this was not about me, OxVox or any single person involved with this process. It was about getting the cabinet to approve the lease on the triangle and preparing us for a strong planning application.

OxVox are a fiercely independent group but we have worked hard with the club making sure our message got through to decision makers. It’s not exciting or glamorous but for nearly five years I have been involved in this process and for the last two we have been meeting councillors, planners, experts and MPs to hammer home the message. The nature of politics demands that a lot of this goes unnoticed but as a group we always said we would rather look quiet and succeed than make unnecessary noise and jeopardise the project.

The club, OxVox and all our amazing supporters have done exactly what is needed and we shouldn’t underestimate the scale of that success. Every cabinet member was in favour with only a supportive and very reasonable Peter Sudbury abstaining purely on party lines. The lease over freehold is also fine for the club and a positive move for OxVox in offering another layer of protection. The owners already stated their intention to aim for carbon zero and the opposition claim that they ‘forced’ us into needing planning permission to proceed with the sale of land is farcical.

@SwissYellow has done great work fighting the cause. The post he sent about the group being one combining all sports that combating organised opposition groups across the county is a great one that I would lend my weight to, but I honestly believe a single stadium group would weaken the unified voice we have, would steal some of the impact of individuals to campaign separately, and would also raise the attention levels for the opposition group. They are fractured at the moment and showing signs of desperation. Look at the disjointed effort at the council meeting in comparison to the amazing efforts from our side. Most had left before the decision was even made.

What we have done and will do is counter their misinformation with facts and our amazing numbers. The cabinet repeatedly mentioned the outstanding levels of positive contributions and emails. That is what has got us here.

@Colin B is right to bring up Brighton as an example but at various stages of their campaign they used different approaches. We now move on and our next update introduces the next element.

We are over this hurdle but there is a long way to go.

The club and those close to the project would not want to dampen this passion and commitment but would equally argue against going down this path.

If anyone from this group or as a group wants to sit down and discuss this issue i’m happy to give my time. It’s well worth pursuing what else can be done. I leave that in their hands but either way thank them again for their energy and willingness to get involved.

Anyone can contact us at enquiries@oxvox.org.uk as always. If you have questions about what we are doing then your input is always welcome. I would just remind everyone before they post to take two things in mind.

The people I work with at OxVox work incredibly hard and want nothing more than to ensure the safety and success of our club. The second is that the opposition would like nothing more than to goad us all into is making rash comments that put the fanbase in a bad light with decision makers. These people are failing. Let’s not throw them a lifeline. Now is the time for the club to convince the real people of Kidlington that they can answer their concerns.

Thank you

Paul

OxVox

 

[Billyox]

In my opinion, this isn't the biggest battle. Firework displays occur once a year and are generally run through organisations that bring money in for supporting other local services. If well run, they are generally a really valuable community event that are enjoyed by families.

But they need to be in large open spaces which will have natural boundaries. This will cause disruption to nature, but it's for a relatively short period of time once a year and the gains outweigh the losses. I don't know the policy of the Green Party, but generally the view is that properly controlled public displays are far safer for people and wildlife than domestic events without the same safety measures.

Where the hypocrisy exists, is the likes of Middleton and FoSB suggesting that the club and football fans will do irreversible damage to nature simply by existing. This takes no account of the measures that will be in place to minimise light and sound pollution whilst also enhancing spaces of nature around the stadium site.

What we should be saying is that Firework displays are great entertainment for families and the wider community. Oxford United is also great entertainment for families and the wider community. Their impact on nature will both be absolutely minimal, but the evidence of the Firework displays prove that nature is extremely resilient and will adapt and thrive in these new surroundings.

 

[Scotchegg]

View attachment 15794

Of course that is a dumb post, as are many from FoSB. But we can demonstrate that safely controlled football games are no different from safety controlled firework displays. And both can exist perfectly well in our communities.

 

[SwissYellow]

While it's not my place to be overconfident, I've heard more that the FOSB are done. Their folks want out, they are squabbling about money, Middleton and what to do next

They could however be planning something quite reverse.

It may be worth ignoring them through this next phase of planning but being absolutely ready to mobilize fully when needed. I know this is against my initial recommendation but they're no where near as powerful as we were made to think.

Ian Middleton is also done for, the sheer volume of complaints levelled against him added together that so many fellow Greens, Councillors, officers and press think the guy is a dick and want him removed. Middleton has been passing information to FOSB so if he goes, they lose more knowledge.

Finally, I'd love to help a pro Oxfordshire Sports facilities group, can't run it/lead it sadly. Just don't have the time!

 

[OUSP]

*Apologies for the length of post but I wanted to give this the attention it deserved. This was written yesterday but life got in the way of posting!*

Hi all

Firstly can I say a massive thank you from all at OxVox for the amazing work that has been done by so many of you. It has been and remains an incredibly busy time at the moment and we have an update due but I wanted the chance to say that here. Thank you! You continue to prove opposition stereotypes about football fans a nonsense.

I also wanted to address the formation of a separate group to stand against those opponents. Firstly I would say that it’s not my place to tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t do. Our fanbase has fantastic, intelligent and energetic supporters and seeing them engaging for the good of the club is heartening.

I do however wonder if a separate group solely founded to attack or counter a certain group of opponents may not be counter productive. I realise the massive frustration many of you feel when you see our club and fanbase attacked. Please don’t think we don’t share it. Nothing would be more enjoyable than to reply in kind, but from the start this was not about me, OxVox or any single person involved with this process. It was about getting the cabinet to approve the lease on the triangle and preparing us for a strong planning application.

OxVox are a fiercely independent group but we have worked hard with the club making sure our message got through to decision makers. It’s not exciting or glamorous but for nearly five years I have been involved in this process and for the last two we have been meeting councillors, planners, experts and MPs to hammer home the message. The nature of politics demands that a lot of this goes unnoticed but as a group we always said we would rather look quiet and succeed than make unnecessary noise and jeopardise the project.

The club, OxVox and all our amazing supporters have done exactly what is needed and we shouldn’t underestimate the scale of that success. Every cabinet member was in favour with only a supportive and very reasonable Peter Sudbury abstaining purely on party lines. The lease over freehold is also fine for the club and a positive move for OxVox in offering another layer of protection. The owners already stated their intention to aim for carbon zero and the opposition claim that they ‘forced’ us into needing planning permission to proceed with the sale of land is farcical.

@SwissYellow has done great work fighting the cause. The post he sent about the group being one combining all sports that combating organised opposition groups across the county is a great one that I would lend my weight to, but I honestly believe a single stadium group would weaken the unified voice we have, would steal some of the impact of individuals to campaign separately, and would also raise the attention levels for the opposition group. They are fractured at the moment and showing signs of desperation. Look at the disjointed effort at the council meeting in comparison to the amazing efforts from our side. Most had left before the decision was even made.

What we have done and will do is counter their misinformation with facts and our amazing numbers. The cabinet repeatedly mentioned the outstanding levels of positive contributions and emails. That is what has got us here.

@Colin B is right to bring up Brighton as an example but at various stages of their campaign they used different approaches. We now move on and our next update introduces the next element.

We are over this hurdle but there is a long way to go.

The club and those close to the project would not want to dampen this passion and commitment but would equally argue against going down this path.

If anyone from this group or as a group wants to sit down and discuss this issue i’m happy to give my time. It’s well worth pursuing what else can be done. I leave that in their hands but either way thank them again for their energy and willingness to get involved.

Anyone can contact us at enquiries@oxvox.org.uk as always. If you have questions about what we are doing then your input is always welcome. I would just remind everyone before they post to take two things in mind.

The people I work with at OxVox work incredibly hard and want nothing more than to ensure the safety and success of our club. The second is that the opposition would like nothing more than to goad us all into is making rash comments that put the fanbase in a bad light with decision makers. These people are failing. Let’s not throw them a lifeline. Now is the time for the club to convince the real people of Kidlington that they can answer their concerns.

Thank you

Paul

OxVox

A great post from @Paul P. It's very clear that this stage was not won on the front pages of the Oxford Mail, nor on Nextdoor, but in the strategic conversations with those making the decision. In fact the high media profile probably did more harm than good to those indulging in it, some of whom are now really feeling the heat.
There is a Kidlington residents for the stadium group which is doing great work on the ground.
There will be lots of opportunities to contribute going forward, directly or through the fan groups already in place.

 

[MJB]

*Apologies for the length of post but I wanted to give this the attention it deserved. This was written yesterday but life got in the way of posting!*

Hi all

Firstly can I say a massive thank you from all at OxVox for the amazing work that has been done by so many of you. It has been and remains an incredibly busy time at the moment and we have an update due but I wanted the chance to say that here. Thank you! You continue to prove opposition stereotypes about football fans a nonsense.

I also wanted to address the formation of a separate group to stand against those opponents. Firstly I would say that it’s not my place to tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t do. Our fanbase has fantastic, intelligent and energetic supporters and seeing them engaging for the good of the club is heartening.

I do however wonder if a separate group solely founded to attack or counter a certain group of opponents may not be counter productive. I realise the massive frustration many of you feel when you see our club and fanbase attacked. Please don’t think we don’t share it. Nothing would be more enjoyable than to reply in kind, but from the start this was not about me, OxVox or any single person involved with this process. It was about getting the cabinet to approve the lease on the triangle and preparing us for a strong planning application.

OxVox are a fiercely independent group but we have worked hard with the club making sure our message got through to decision makers. It’s not exciting or glamorous but for nearly five years I have been involved in this process and for the last two we have been meeting councillors, planners, experts and MPs to hammer home the message. The nature of politics demands that a lot of this goes unnoticed but as a group we always said we would rather look quiet and succeed than make unnecessary noise and jeopardise the project.

The club, OxVox and all our amazing supporters have done exactly what is needed and we shouldn’t underestimate the scale of that success. Every cabinet member was in favour with only a supportive and very reasonable Peter Sudbury abstaining purely on party lines. The lease over freehold is also fine for the club and a positive move for OxVox in offering another layer of protection. The owners already stated their intention to aim for carbon zero and the opposition claim that they ‘forced’ us into needing planning permission to proceed with the sale of land is farcical.

@SwissYellow has done great work fighting the cause. The post he sent about the group being one combining all sports that combating organised opposition groups across the county is a great one that I would lend my weight to, but I honestly believe a single stadium group would weaken the unified voice we have, would steal some of the impact of individuals to campaign separately, and would also raise the attention levels for the opposition group. They are fractured at the moment and showing signs of desperation. Look at the disjointed effort at the council meeting in comparison to the amazing efforts from our side. Most had left before the decision was even made.

What we have done and will do is counter their misinformation with facts and our amazing numbers. The cabinet repeatedly mentioned the outstanding levels of positive contributions and emails. That is what has got us here.

@Colin B is right to bring up Brighton as an example but at various stages of their campaign they used different approaches. We now move on and our next update introduces the next element.

We are over this hurdle but there is a long way to go.

The club and those close to the project would not want to dampen this passion and commitment but would equally argue against going down this path.

If anyone from this group or as a group wants to sit down and discuss this issue i’m happy to give my time. It’s well worth pursuing what else can be done. I leave that in their hands but either way thank them again for their energy and willingness to get involved.

Anyone can contact us at enquiries@oxvox.org.uk as always. If you have questions about what we are doing then your input is always welcome. I would just remind everyone before they post to take two things in mind.

The people I work with at OxVox work incredibly hard and want nothing more than to ensure the safety and success of our club. The second is that the opposition would like nothing more than to goad us all into is making rash comments that put the fanbase in a bad light with decision makers. These people are failing. Let’s not throw them a lifeline. Now is the time for the club to convince the real people of Kidlington that they can answer their concerns.

Thank you

Paul

OxVox

I would agree 100% with this.

It’s truly heartening to see more and more fans wanting to proactively engage with the new stadium development.

Let’s coordinate it so we get maximum benefit and impact, in the way suggested by Paul.

Stepping back and looking at this from a planning and public affairs perspective - which I often do due to my involvement in this kind of project in a work capacity - rather than purely as a fan, we’re getting nearly everything right so far, including messaging and engagement.

Positivity is growing and the politics and planning process is lining up as well as they can for such a large, complex and difficult development such as this.

It has always been said that the County process was the most significant first mountain, as without a lease/sale and land to consider, the plans were dead in the water.

They’re not and a significant reason for that has been the superb response from us fans, those we love and the wider community.

But planning is another beast entirely and it requires considered approaches to both public engagement and presentation of documentation.

We need to do this together, in a joined up way, and with a United front.

 

[Eaststanding]

*Apologies for the length of post but I wanted to give this the attention it deserved. This was written yesterday but life got in the way of posting!*

Hi all

Firstly can I say a massive thank you from all at OxVox for the amazing work that has been done by so many of you. It has been and remains an incredibly busy time at the moment and we have an update due but I wanted the chance to say that here. Thank you! You continue to prove opposition stereotypes about football fans a nonsense.

I also wanted to address the formation of a separate group to stand against those opponents. Firstly I would say that it’s not my place to tell anyone what they should or shouldn’t do. Our fanbase has fantastic, intelligent and energetic supporters and seeing them engaging for the good of the club is heartening.

I do however wonder if a separate group solely founded to attack or counter a certain group of opponents may not be counter productive. I realise the massive frustration many of you feel when you see our club and fanbase attacked. Please don’t think we don’t share it. Nothing would be more enjoyable than to reply in kind, but from the start this was not about me, OxVox or any single person involved with this process. It was about getting the cabinet to approve the lease on the triangle and preparing us for a strong planning application.

OxVox are a fiercely independent group but we have worked hard with the club making sure our message got through to decision makers. It’s not exciting or glamorous but for nearly five years I have been involved in this process and for the last two we have been meeting councillors, planners, experts and MPs to hammer home the message. The nature of politics demands that a lot of this goes unnoticed but as a group we always said we would rather look quiet and succeed than make unnecessary noise and jeopardise the project.

The club, OxVox and all our amazing supporters have done exactly what is needed and we shouldn’t underestimate the scale of that success. Every cabinet member was in favour with only a supportive and very reasonable Peter Sudbury abstaining purely on party lines. The lease over freehold is also fine for the club and a positive move for OxVox in offering another layer of protection. The owners already stated their intention to aim for carbon zero and the opposition claim that they ‘forced’ us into needing planning permission to proceed with the sale of land is farcical.

@SwissYellow has done great work fighting the cause. The post he sent about the group being one combining all sports that combating organised opposition groups across the county is a great one that I would lend my weight to, but I honestly believe a single stadium group would weaken the unified voice we have, would steal some of the impact of individuals to campaign separately, and would also raise the attention levels for the opposition group. They are fractured at the moment and showing signs of desperation. Look at the disjointed effort at the council meeting in comparison to the amazing efforts from our side. Most had left before the decision was even made.

What we have done and will do is counter their misinformation with facts and our amazing numbers. The cabinet repeatedly mentioned the outstanding levels of positive contributions and emails. That is what has got us here.

@Colin B is right to bring up Brighton as an example but at various stages of their campaign they used different approaches. We now move on and our next update introduces the next element.

We are over this hurdle but there is a long way to go.

The club and those close to the project would not want to dampen this passion and commitment but would equally argue against going down this path.

If anyone from this group or as a group wants to sit down and discuss this issue i’m happy to give my time. It’s well worth pursuing what else can be done. I leave that in their hands but either way thank them again for their energy and willingness to get involved.

Anyone can contact us at enquiries@oxvox.org.uk as always. If you have questions about what we are doing then your input is always welcome. I would just remind everyone before they post to take two things in mind.

The people I work with at OxVox work incredibly hard and want nothing more than to ensure the safety and success of our club. The second is that the opposition would like nothing more than to goad us all into is making rash comments that put the fanbase in a bad light with decision makers. These people are failing. Let’s not throw them a lifeline. Now is the time for the club to convince the real people of Kidlington that they can answer their concerns.

Thank you

Paul

OxVox

‘The nature of politics demands that a lot of this goes unnoticed but as a group we always said we would rather look quiet and succeed than make unnecessary noise and jeopardise the project.’ Couldn’t agree more, and thanks for all you have done and will do for the club, it’s fans and the community,.

 

[OX18]

I am not committed either way to having a separate fan group or just rely on OxVox. I do think the priority is to get the local media and I’m thinking of Radio Oxford in particular, that when the get some spokesperson from FOSB they get into the habit of getting a reply or view from the other side. I realise this is totally against the bias that the TV channel spout, but if we could persuade the Radio Oxford team to approach the fans, be it OxVox of the separate group to get an immediate reply. Too often the opposition, which is what they term themselves get away without being pulled up on lies and distortion. Maybe the club is offered a reply but don’t want to be seen as getting too far involved with these people. If we could get into the media’s head that a reply should be offered to the fan’s representatives, it would go a long way in reducing the crap that they spout.

 

[Foley]

I am not committed either way to having a separate fan group or just rely on OxVox. I do think the priority is to get the local media and I’m thinking of Radio Oxford in particular, that when the get some spokesperson from FOSB they get into the habit of getting a reply or view from the other side. I realise this is totally against the bias that the TV channel spout, but if we could persuade the Radio Oxford team to approach the fans, be it OxVox of the separate group to get an immediate reply. Too often the opposition, which is what they term themselves get away without being pulled up on lies and distortion. Maybe the club is offered a reply but don’t want to be seen as getting too far involved with these people. If we could get into the media’s head that a reply should be offered to the fan’s representatives, it would go a long way in reducing the crap that they spout.

I tend to agree with this.
Excellent post by Paul, but my slight concern is the fear that FoSB managed to install into an awful lot of people in Kidlington.
Keeping quiet and trusting the process may well have helped the club getting through the first major hurdle, but the lies and outrageous claims made by FoSB do need to be countered.
The interview of FoSB/ Middleton after the Council's decision did seem odd.

 

[OUFCwaffle]

What we have to understand about the opposition (well FOSB at least, sorry Ian looks like your days are numbered in politics), is that the have absolutely nothing to lose. They can risk spaffing off shouting and screaming as much as they like on Radio Oxford or in the Oxford Mail. Because whatever happens they will continue to live their comfortable and miserably well off lives.

OUFC on the other hand have everything to lose, and so must tread very carefully when engaging with the media. Agree with Paul P in that the best option is to remain calm, engage with the relevant parties in a positive manner and keep our cards close to our chest.

It's a long road ahead, and it may be frustrating seeing the negative comments that the opposition love to spin against us. But it is so critical to get everything done in the correct way, and this takes time and patience. Once the plans are out in the open for all to see, a lot of the concerns will be addressed.

The way that OUFC have been conducting themselves in the process has been excellent, and for that reason it gives me an awful lot of confidence that we will succeed in the end.

 

[Oxymoron]

As has been previously mentioned, we have now moved from a phase where "screaming and shouting" had some influence (in that it could shape or harden individuals attitudes and increase the volume of negatively) to a phase that is going to be more regulated and controlled.

Saying "We don't want it/them/anything here" might have some sway over a council's view of an individual and infrequent decision but planning is a completely different ball game, governed by many far reaching (and sometimes conflicting) policies and statutes.

The opposition knew they had to kill this project before it could get to this stage as weight of opinion is replaced by documented program.

The scheme will inevitably gather acceptance and understanding as and when the firm plans are publicised.

 

[unification]

IM hates the City Council with a passion. He really goes after this City Councillor.

 

[Sarge]

IM hates the City Council with a passion. He really goes after this City Councillor.

Like the City Council could interfere in a lease being terminated between a landlord and tenant.... Chester V of Yarton is deluded

 

[Paul Cannell]

Just boyish petulance.

 

[Sarge]

Just boyish bearded petulance.

^^ fixed it