National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[SteMerritt]

You mean Oasis who benefitted from the EU? What about the thousands of other bands every year from Britain who may have lost their chance? When I lived in Germany there were plenty of British bands coming through. Some not great, some brilliant. Now they'll have to make sure they're cashed up for an overseas tour ... or maybe go back on the dole because a couple of hundred notes won't be enough to make it work. "If they're good enough they'll be as good as the Beatles or Oasis, so shouldn't be a problem".

Christ man, get some perspective, this is BREXIT. Who cares about an unimportant multi-billion pound industry like music when we have secured OUR fishing industry, and that brings in around a fiver a year. Anyway, just bleeding-heart liberals making music. Losers.

 

[bashamwonderland]

You mean Oasis who benefitted from the EU? What about the thousands of other bands every year from Britain who may have lost their chance? When I lived in Germany there were plenty of British bands coming through. Some not great, some brilliant. Now they'll have to make sure they're cashed up for an overseas tour ... or maybe go back on the dole because a couple of hundred notes won't be enough to make it work. "If they're good enough they'll be as good as the Beatles or Oasis, so shouldn't be a problem".

Nobody has lost their chance. Provided they submit the correct basic paperwork they will be able to continue to tour as before. If they need to save up a few hundred notes to do so then there are plenty of entertainment venues in the UK within which they will be able to play to save up.

I'm not sure the dole is a necessity, either. They could get jobs.

 

[bashamwonderland]

There's fronting on nothing, there's ignorance , there's living in the past and then there's bashamwonderland- who combines the lot.

Imagine thinking a touring orchestra or a band could work in the same way as it did 60 years ago.

Imagine making baseless logical leaps and then presenting it in a grandstanding fashion for a small number of likes on an internet forum.

... Who are you talking to?

 

[chuckbert]

Nobody has lost their chance. Provided they submit the correct basic paperwork they will be able to continue to tour as before.

Ah yes, I remember that: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/fa/fa7eac86d290d1ae1c3d4bbd806ba88d8b0c157d7b600444c2dca5c42f9a206c.jpg

If they need to save up a few hundred notes to do so then there are plenty of entertainment venues in the UK within which they will be able to play to save up.

Do you actually know that this is possible or are you pulling it out of your a**e? Have you any idea how challenging the scene is for real musicians?

 

[YellowTaxi]

He doesn't know anything. This is bashamwonderland, remember.


And strange what contempt he has for the internet forum on which he is a regular poster.

 

[carefreeoufc]

All these musicians complaining they can’t work, why don’t they retrain as fisherman or something important?

There’s not enough “get up and go” or “can do attitude” in this country anymore. Impossible to make a success of Brexit without a bit of positive thinking and drive.

 

[SteMerritt]

All these musicians complaining they can’t work, why don’t they retrain as fisherman or something important?

There’s not enough “get up and go” or “can do attitude” in this country anymore. Impossible to make a success of Brexit without a bit of positive thinking and drive.

That's the spirit.

 

[chuckbert]

All these musicians complaining they can’t work, why don’t they retrain as fisherman or something important?

There’s not enough “get up and go” or “can do attitude” in this country anymore. Impossible to make a success of Brexit without a bit of positive thinking and drive.

Here you go - an opportunity for everyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherman's_Friends_(film)

 

[bashamwonderland]

Ah yes, I remember that: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/fa/fa7eac86d290d1ae1c3d4bbd806ba88d8b0c157d7b600444c2dca5c42f9a206c.jpg

Do you actually know that this is possible or are you pulling it out of your a**e? Have you any idea how challenging the scene is for real musicians?

Do I actually know that performing music for money in one of our tens of thousands of entertainment venues is possible? Yes. Yes I do.

Quickmeme.com? I'm not clicking that.

 

[chuckbert]

Do I actually know that performing music for money in one of our tens of thousands of entertainment venues is possible? Yes. Yes I do.

Ok - give us some confidence that you know something about how the music industry works. Seriously. I hope you're not just some bloke saying "must be fine", and that you have some actual meat behind your assertion? I'd much rather you addressed this than the bit below.

Quickmeme.com? I'm not clicking that.

Trivial, but it was a cheap meme pointing at the irony of you suggesting providing "correct basic paperwork" in the context of leaving Europe (I hoped and expected that it would get imbedded, but must have not got that right).

 

[bashamwonderland]

Ok - give us some confidence that you know something about how the music industry works. Seriously. I hope you're not just some bloke saying "must be fine", and that you have some actual meat behind your assertion? I'd much rather you addressed this than the bit below.

Trivial, but it was a cheap meme pointing at the irony of you suggesting providing "correct basic paperwork" in the context of leaving Europe (I hoped and expected that it would get imbedded, but must have not got that right).

Fair enough I had a look and it was pretty good.

Do I need to be an industry insider to give my two cents on bands taking a jolly across the channel? Not really. No more than I expect you to be a medical professional before commenting "it's actually quite simple" when explaining how we escape the Covid pandemic on the Covid thread! These are just opinions.

I'd love to better understand exactly how bands will be worse off - perhaps you could give me your figures so I can understand the financial implications of a German gig for a UK band going forward? Like "the band will be £5,000 worse off per gig in Germany as a result of visa costs of [X], equipment passports of [Y] etc."

All I've got at the moment is a meme and a Twitter post from someone who is being a little dramatic.

 

[YellowTaxi]

"A jolly across the channel"- what a contemptuous thing to say.

They are at work and earning a living.

 

[Whingit]

Fair enough I had a look and it was pretty good.

Do I need to be an industry insider to give my two cents on bands taking a jolly across the channel? Not really. No more than I expect you to be a medical professional before commenting "it's actually quite simple" when explaining how we escape the Covid pandemic on the Covid thread! These are just opinions.

I'd love to better understand exactly how bands will be worse off - perhaps you could give me your figures so I can understand the financial implications of a German gig for a UK band going forward? Like "the band will be £5,000 worse off per gig in Germany as a result of visa costs of [X], equipment passports of [Y] etc."

All I've got at the moment is a meme and a Twitter post from someone who is being a little dramatic.

Didn't @RyanioBirdio explain this in quite some detail a few months back, only to be dismissed by people like yourself?

 

[bashamwonderland]

Didn't @RyanioBirdio explain this in quite some detail a few months back, only to be dismissed by people like yourself?

Yeah a cost breakdown would be genuinely interesting to read from someone who knows their onions. I seem to remember RB got involved with this a while back and he seemed to actually understand the industry.

 

[Essexyellows]

To be more realistic the whole Covid lark has stuffed far more arts/music/venues etc than Brexit would ever manage to inconvenience.
Everyone will have to adapt to new regulation on travel etc.

 

[bashamwonderland]

To be more realistic the whole Covid lark has stuffed far more arts/music/venues etc than Brexit would ever manage to inconvenience.
Everyone will have to adapt to new regulation on travel etc.

Yeah but then you can't call people gammons and hang a blue flag out your bedroom window. F the Tories, bring back British Leyland and all that.

It also doesn't get you those sweet sweet likes on social media.

Brexit is the true problem.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Didn't @RyanioBirdio explain this in quite some detail a few months back, only to be dismissed by people like yourself?

I can’t bear to go through it all in quite as much detail again. But yes, probably. I work in the music industry and have done since around 2003, bar a 2/3 year stint in football in the middle. Have done everything from tour management and live promotions to marketing and publishing.

The live touring and logistics industry will be taking a hammering after covid clears and gigs / tours start up again. Most major agencies and promoters operating in the UK are already going to be using almost exclusively German riggers and buses (they used some previously, obviously, but it is going to be significantly more) because they can move freely through borders. Less border issues and more clarity on things like taxable fees relating to performance revenues and royalties, vehicle and equipment taxation, health and safety insurance for people who spend all day and night lugging around and hoisting up gear that if it fell on you would kill you and so forth. It’s just easier to get EU companies and citizens to handle that so they can move along for weeks at a time without any snags. A lot of British crew workers moved to the continent in the last couple of years to take jobs at these continental firms and get EU citizenship to safeguard their jobs.

There is also a lot of impending issues with regards to merchandise. A lot of touring merchandise was made in the UK (a lot in Leeds and Manchester specifically) but in the last few years a lot of that work has been moved to companies in Dublin and the Netherlands, as well as Germany. A garment being an EU made product is again much clearer and far easier when you’re carting it through 20 different borders and selling it in different countries every night or two. You don’t want to be taking a UK garment with you and filling out customs forms and having full vehicle checks at every single border. The WA still has so many sections marked “We’ll figure this out at some point in the next few years” that nobody can even say what the rules and regulations are on half the things that touring bands and artist need to carry with them. So why would anyone take the risk? Just make all the merch in the EU and use EU companies and staff for all the equipment and logistics. Just means the UK has less jobs in the sector and therefore collects less tax.

It’s a minefield, but nobody making any of the decisions has the first idea how any of it works, so it was always going to be messy.

 

[YellowTaxi]

Thanks for clarifying what a "jolly across the channel" (© @bashamwonderland 2021) actually involves.


He's now accusing people who correct him wanting "sweet sweet likes on social media" by which he means people writing on the same message board he uses.

No-one's calling you a gammon in this case mate. Just an idiot,

 

[bashamwonderland]

I can’t bear to go through it all in quite as much detail again. But yes, probably. I work in the music industry and have done since around 2003, bar a 2/3 year stint in football in the middle. Have done everything from tour management and live promotions to marketing and publishing.

The live touring and logistics industry will be taking a hammering after covid clears and gigs / tours start up again. Most major agencies and promoters operating in the UK are already going to be using almost exclusively German riggers and buses (they used some previously, obviously, but it is going to be significantly more) because they can move freely through borders. Less border issues and more clarity on things like taxable fees relating to performance revenues and royalties, vehicle and equipment taxation, health and safety insurance for people who spend all day and night lugging around and hoisting up gear that if it fell on you would kill you and so forth. It’s just easier to get EU companies and citizens to handle that so they can move along for weeks at a time without any snags. A lot of British crew workers moved to the continent in the last couple of years to take jobs at these continental firms and get EU citizenship to safeguard their jobs.

There is also a lot of impending issues with regards to merchandise. A lot of touring merchandise was made in the UK (a lot in Leeds and Manchester specifically) but in the last few years a lot of that work has been moved to companies in Dublin and the Netherlands, as well as Germany. A garment being an EU made product is again much clearer and far easier when you’re carting it through 20 different borders and selling it in different countries every night or two. You don’t want to be taking a UK garment with you and filling out customs forms and having full vehicle checks at every single border. The WA still has so many sections marked “We’ll figure this out at some point in the next few years” that nobody can even say what the rules and regulations are on half the things that touring bands and artist need to carry with them. So why would anyone take the risk? Just make all the merch in the EU and use EU companies and staff for all the equipment and logistics. Just means the UK has less jobs in the sector and therefore collects less tax.

It’s a minefield, but nobody making any of the decisions has the first idea how any of it works, so it was always going to be messy.

That's helpful thanks.

Hopefully once we get some numbers which can illustrate what the financial difference is for a small band seeking to tour in the EU, we will all be a little more educated on the topic.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Thanks for clarifying what a "jolly across the channel" (© @bashamwonderland 2021) actually involves.


He's now accusing people who correct him wanting "sweet sweet likes on social media" by which he means people writing on the same message board he uses.

No-one's calling you a gammon in this case mate. Just an idiot,

The reference to social media was to Instagram / Twitter / FB. I don't consider this or any forum to be "social media" in the traditional sense (though perhaps it is).