National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[Peterdev]

I personally feel the government have done their level best faced with the biggest challenges in more than a lifetime.
Boris Johnson has had this terrible disease and has had to a balancing act between business and COVID-19. It is possible to argue that he has misjudged the virus, as have many other governments.
As to brexit, he was always going to upset many on this. The pro EU lobby have not gone away and arguably are getting more vocal. The ‘deal’ as such is not necessarily a bad one. Fisheries is a minor part of an agreement.
Finance agreements are still under discussion as are many other arrangements.
The UK and EU have to live alongside each other. The EU wanted to make it difficult for us to leave as a salutary lesson to other member states considering referenda.
What is good is that tariffs are off the agenda and that has to be good for trade and future relationships.
Looking to 2021 it would be good to see a co-operation of European countries to help each other provide a unified response to Covid 19 and work together to eliminate it

 

[YellowTaxi]

Do you mean on Covid or more generally? The financial support for business was good- although it's been a target for fraud and there have been a number of significant omissions. (I have a couple of friends who have been very hard hit.)

Since then it's been a saga of mismanagement dithering and contradiction

Don't read the Express, Peter. What is your evidence that the EU wanted to make it difficult to leave and if they did why do you think the deal is not such a bad one?

I have cited several governments of all politcal shades from Communist to Conservative who have done far better than Britain has. To take one example I'm trying to think of another government where a sneior figure openly flouted the guidelines and was defended by the Prime Minister.

 

[Peterdev]

I haven’t read the Express for years.
YT do you really think the EU have not been intransigent on the whole process? However, it can’t have been easy for them when they have to get 27 states to agree on a course of action.
My personal opinion has been for some time that there will be other countries wanting to exit the political union. Italy and Greece have been unhappy with the way things are. Spanish unemployment at 25% amongst the youth probably doesn’t help the EU cause too much.
I think you’re referring to Cummings. How about Nicola Sturgeon? I wasn’t too bothered about that one either.
Remind me of the communist regimes that have done better.
Boris Johnson, I agree, has given the impression of dithering. Maybe he is just listening to others.
As I say he’s damned if he does.
As far as the deal is concerned, I don’t think we could have done much better. the negotiating process has been going on for four and half years and there is still much to sort including the areas of finance which will be talked about until at least March.
I would be interested YT how you would have handled the situation differently. Do you consider the deal not good enough? I’m assuming you didn’t like the way we voted and you would Have preferred a change of government with a new referendum.
What would you have done differently on Covid-19?
would you have put more focus on shutting the country down for months risking much higher unemployment or preferred to help some businesses stay open whilst developing the vaccine.
The one sensible thing to come from a Labour politician this week was from Anthony Blair who said give as many people as possible one vaccine rather than do two several weeks apart. I think at least we have one politician from the opposition talking sense.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The one sensible thing to come from a Labour politician this week was from Anthony Blair who said give as many people as possible one vaccine rather than do two several weeks apart. I think at least we have one politician from the opposition talking sense.

There was a medical scientist on the radio the other day saying that no extensive mass tests had been done on just giving people just one shot of this vaccine She said that some vaccines require a double dose to ensure lasting protection and that just giving one shot may only lead to a very short time when you were immune.

Of course, if that's the case, you will have effectively wasted millions of doses of the vaccine.

She was also sceptical of waiting 12 weeks between doses - that was not the period that has been tested.

 

[LowerSouth]

There was a medical scientist on the radio the other day saying that no extensive mass tests had been done on just giving people just one shot of this vaccine She said that some vaccines require a double dose to ensure lasting protection and that just giving one shot may only lead to a very short time when you were immune.

Of course, if that's the case, you will have effectively wasted millions of doses of the vaccine.

She was also sceptical of waiting 12 weeks between doses - that was not the period that has been tested.

Jonathan Van-Tam would beg to differ.
Rough quote from today :
“it’s better to give double the number of people one shot and achieve 80% immunity, rather than giving two shots to half the number and gain 90/95%.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Jonathan Van-Tam would beg to differ.
Rough quote from today :
“it’s better to give double the number of people one shot and achieve 80% immunity, rather than giving two shots to half the number and gain 90/95%.

Surely that depends on how long that immunity lasts? I am only posing the question - I *presume* this change of policy is based on actual science rather than panic at the current numbers and a desire to firefight.

 

[carefreeoufc]

Surely that depends on how long that immunity lasts? I am only posing the question - I *presume* this change of policy is based on actual science rather than panic at the current numbers and a desire to firefight.

I was going to post almost the same thing. My concern in the last few days is the appearing change in tactics has coincided with the virus seemingly being out of control in the U.K. and potential issues with how many doses we actually have access to.

I’m more than happy with what JVT has said as long as it’s guided by science/data and we’re not going to be in a situation where people are no longer “covered” by the vaccine because it’s no longer effective in June/July or whatever.

Now I did hear someone on the radio say that it would maybe reduce its protection by say 7-8yrs to 5-6 but I can’t see how that is known yet.

 

[YellowTaxi]

No i don't think the EU have been intransigent.

The British government have been showboating and lying both to their own population and to the negotiators.

This included signing a treaty and then passing a law saying the treaty they signed didn't count in law.

 

[YellowTaxi]

Vietnam with a population of 120 million (and a border with China) has had 35 deaths.

 

[YellowTaxi]

I think it's crazy to leave the EU. if you are going to do it you should have guaranteed the rights of EU citizens here and UK ctizens in the EU


I would also have been. in favour of staying in the single market and customs union- as almost everyone arguing for brexit said would happen.

 

[chuckbert]

I thought this was a particularly interesting perspective, given the football reference and the bunch of posters on here in the music business (hope the link to facebook works - the OP insists the picture accompanies the text):

https://www.facebook.com/attilathestockbroker/posts/10159107274997417

 

[bashamwonderland]

I thought this was a particularly interesting perspective, given the football reference and the bunch of posters on here in the music business (hope the link to facebook works - the OP insists the picture accompanies the text):

https://www.facebook.com/attilathestockbroker/posts/10159107274997417

Interesting indeed.

Seems like his point is that he can't perform gigs anymore in the EU, referencing "at least one last time" etc.

I mean - he and his band are still allowed to travel to the EU to perform their music whenever they like (Covid permitting). They might not even need a visa depending on the country/length of stay.

For countries where a visa is required, how hard would it be for him and his band to spend 10 minutes on their phone obtaining one? The Beatles managed to do their Germany thing before we were in Schengen. I don't know if they got a visa or not but it didn't seem to hinder them.

He's being a bit dramatic if you ask me.

 

[YellowTaxi]

Musicians now need visas to work in the EU.

it takes longer than 10 minutes on the phone to get one.

If they go on tour they will probably need a different visa for every country they play in

They will also need carnets when they take equipment from one country to another.

 

[chuckbert]

The Beatles managed to do their Germany thing before we were in Schengen. I don't know if they got a visa or not but it didn't seem to hinder them.

He's being a bit dramatic if you ask me.

I rest my case m’lud. This is it. Condensed into one issue. f**k.

 

[YellowTaxi]

As Williams had not obtained German work permits, the Beatles were detained at Harwich for five hours. Williams finally convinced the authorities that they were students on holiday, although work permits were later obtained after their arrival in Hamburg.

 

[YellowTaxi]

Turns out George Harrison Pete Best and Paul McCartney were all deported and Lennon's work permit was revoked .

 

[chuckbert]

Turns out George Harrison Pete Best and Paul McCartney were all deported and Lennon's work permit was revoked .

Yeah but that was all fun and japes. The odd bit of paperwork here and there and a fee or two couldn't possibly be important in the 2020s. FF-F-S.

 

[bashamwonderland]

So they managed it without even submitting the paperwork and after acting like a bunch of dickheads when they got there.

Oasis' deportation story is also a belter.

 

[chuckbert]

So they managed it without even submitting the paperwork and after acting like a bunch of dickheads when they got there.

Oasis' deportation story is also a belter.

You mean Oasis who benefitted from the EU? What about the thousands of other bands every year from Britain who may have lost their chance? When I lived in Germany there were plenty of British bands coming through. Some not great, some brilliant. Now they'll have to make sure they're cashed up for an overseas tour ... or maybe go back on the dole because a couple of hundred notes won't be enough to make it work. "If they're good enough they'll be as good as the Beatles or Oasis, so shouldn't be a problem".

 

[YellowTaxi]

There's fronting on nothing, there's ignorance , there's living in the past and then there's bashamwonderland- who combines the lot.

Imagine thinking a touring orchestra or a band could work in the same way as it did 60 years ago.