General Winnall v Agyei

[Golden Dr Otto]

Interested to see data following reading the forum on this matter

 

[Essexyellows]

No contest.
One is strong, quick, explosive, attack-minded, and the sort of player that turns a game.
The other is Winnall.

 

[Northstandboy]

Are you watching Robinson!

 

[holdsteady]

Of our 3 centre forwards only Agyei is the type to run in behind/at the defence with pace and power, offering something a bit different so you would think he would at least make a good option up top as a sub but from the little game time Robinson has given him up front it’s hard not to conclude that he doesn’t fancy him.

Given that first Mackie and now Winnall have regularly got minutes ahead of him and both of them have been here at the end of there careers and diminished by previous injuries it looks like Robinson would rather have an experienced head in to finish games, it’s a bit strange given that most managers like pace to exploit a tired defence but instead of using that we have thrown on two slow players over him.

I don’t know how good a centre forward Agyei is, not seen him play there enough to form an opinion but having witnessed Mackie and now Winnall coming on as subs instead of him I would like to see him given more of a go but it’s not going to happen as he obviously isn’t a Robinson type of player.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Dan deserves a run of 10 games.

He doesn't even need to "prove himself" - he's done that time and again since Shrewsbury away 2020.

 

[holdsteady]

I am actually most surprised by the fact he is still here, wouldn’t be surprised to see him go out on loan before the end of the month.

 

[Osei Yaw]

I think Winnall is a player where you pretty much know what you're going to get, where as Agyei is much more unpredictable. Winnall is very similar to Taylor and I think he gets a hard press on here, particularly because he's not Agyei. There is every chance he will come good, but I don't really see how Winnall on for Taylor changes the game much. Dan has the pace and unpredictability to unsettle a defence and it's a real shame Robbo doesn't seem to like him. Hopefully Agyei gets a start on Wednesday night and gives Robbo no choice but to start to pay more attention to him.

 

[Oxymoron]

Agyei has enthusiasm, a tremendous burst of speed and an eye for goal - for ten minutes. After that he can drift out of the game.

Winall puts himself about, has a bit of shithousery and pops up with the odd goal but he goes to the end.

This is why Dan gets the nod at the 80 minute mark and Winall comes on if it's an earlier change.

 

[TeamOX]

Yesterday was another example of the side being weakened by the Taylor to Winnall switch. The ball just does not hold up front with Winnall making it more difficult for the side no move up the pitch. Taylor is very effective at this for his size and a part of his game that goes a little under the radar-he is such a nuisance to defenders.

 

[Sarge]

Dan Agyei as he brings a different approach

Though Whyte in that role could be an option ...he got a hat trick last time he played up front for us

 

[Steve McAvoy]

I remember the player that Winnall was. He isn’t that player any more. Maybe he will contribute more over time but I suspect his fitness/physicality is shot. Dan every time.

 

[werthersoriginal]

I’d like to see more of Dan but has anyone seen him play well for longer than twenty minutes?

 

[holdsteady]

Shithousery, you know a players legs are going/gone when that’s one of the strong points of there game. It never gets mentioned about players in there prime.

 

[holdsteady]

I’d like to see more of Dan but has anyone seen him play well for longer than twenty minutes?

He hasn’t had a lot of opportunities over twenty minutes has he? Has Winnall played well for more than twenty minutes? Does Winnall come on out of position?

I would agree that the jury is out on Agyei, we know he is fast and strong but he never gets enough game time or a run to really judge him.

 

[ttg17]

FWIW I'm much more pro-Agyei than I was this time last year. His performances after being brought back into the side at MK impressed me (in spells).

I do think though that he is a classic example of a player who gets better in the eyes of fans the less they play. Whenever we don't win and Agyei hasn't made the field, there's always comments along the lines of, why does KR hate Agyei? He would have changed the game! But I just don't think there's much evidence to back this up. There is literally one game, the MK game, that I can think of where Agyei came on and single-handedly changed the game in our favour. He was superb that day. (I know people will point to the screamer at Shrewsbury as another example, but one good goal doesn't equate to a game-changing all-round performance - or we would give Winnall far more credit for, for example, the goal at home to Gills that set up the comeback.) But he has, at this point, had a lot of chances, and, for me, rarely produced enough of note to justify this clamour every time we drop points.

This isn't to say I think Winnall is the second coming - I've been pretty disappointed with him since he came in given his pedigree. (I hope it's just a fitness issue and we'll get to see the best of him this year, but it has been a year now.) But acting like we dropped two points yesterday because Winnall came on instead of Agyei is attributing far more credit to DA than I think his performances in his OUFC career so far have merited.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

FWIW I'm much more pro-Agyei than I was this time last year. His performances after being brought back into the side at MK impressed me (in spells).

I do think though that he is a classic example of a player who gets better in the eyes of fans the less they play. Whenever we don't win and Agyei hasn't made the field, there's always comments along the lines of, why does KR hate Agyei? He would have changed the game! But I just don't think there's much evidence to back this up. There is literally one game, the MK game, that I can think of where Agyei came on and single-handedly changed the game in our favour. He was superb that day. (I know people will point to the screamer at Shrewsbury as another example, but one good goal doesn't equate to a game-changing all-round performance - or we would give Winnall far more credit for, for example, the goal at home to Gills that set up the comeback.) But he has, at this point, had a lot of chances, and, for me, rarely produced enough of note to justify this clamour every time we drop points.

This isn't to say I think Winnall is the second coming - I've been pretty disappointed with him since he came in given his pedigree. (I hope it's just a fitness issue and we'll get to see the best of him this year, but it has been a year now.) But acting like we dropped two points yesterday because Winnall came on instead of Agyei is attributing far more credit to DA than I think his performances in his OUFC career so far have merited.

Rochdale away from right wing , Pompey away he was excellent actually playing CF but hasn't featured since there .
Swindon away instant impact .

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

He needs to start for at least 5/ 6 matches to have time to settle rather than constantly under pressure to deliver everytime he gets 20 mins as sub

 

[ttg17]

Rochdale away from right wing , Pompey away he was excellent actually playing CF but hasn't featured since there .
Swindon away instant impact .

Agreed, he was unplayable at Rochdale (for 20 minutes). But then faded badly. I don't actually remember the Pompey game, but Hull away in the run-in he played striker and I thought he was great then too. But then he also played striker against Charlton at home and had an absolute stinker. The thing is, after that MK game, he played in every one of our last 20 matches, scoring twice. They were, admittedly, important goals, but that's hardly the 'five minutes off the bench here and there' that some try and present it as, and a pretty poor scoring rate. (By comparison, Winnall, in his last 7 appearances, when you could argue he was finally getting back to match sharpness, scored 3 times, all off the bench).

He needs to start for at least 5/ 6 matches to have time to settle rather than constantly under pressure to deliver everytime he gets 20 mins as sub

I don't necessarily disagree with this either, but it is a different argument. Unless you're saying he should start over Taylor, which I doubt anyone is seriously calling for (yet!), he's simply not going to get 5/6 starts in a row as striker to 'settle'. Him and Winnall are basically in competition for that backup striker who comes on to try and tilt the game in our favour in the closing stages. Agyei can definitely do that - as shown in the examples we've both mentioned. But offering something 'different' isn't always necessarily the same as offering something 'better'.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The thing is, after that MK game, he played in every one of our last 20 matches, scoring twice.

Do you have the figure for how many times Agyei started and (for those where he came on as sub) how long he got? I suppose the other thing is that he was quite often (as we all know) brought on in a wide position as compared to Winnall who inevitably came on as central striker.

Winnall has (in his playing career) been a class act. There are two points to debate though:
a) does he still have what he did?
b) is he different enough from Taylor?

Without even talking about Agyei, let's think about those questions firdt. I'd say the answer to question 'a' is that he has shown glimpses certainly, but not enough to make me believe he is a game changer nowadays. But that is IMO somewhat because the answer to question 'b' is 'No'. If a defence has managed to keep Taylor quiet, they don't actually need to change how they are playing very much to cope with Winnall. Which is why he looks pretty ineffective when that particular substitution is made - it's pretty much like for like. Winnall doesn't suddenly inject pace or direct running with the ball.

I think that if Taylor is getting no joy, we need to sub a different *type* of striker on - it isn't often that Taylor is missing endless chances that a someone playing the same way would take. That different type may or may not be Agyei (I think he's got something, but can understand why others are doubtful) - but if it isn't him, then we need a new alternative.

 

[Cass63]

Are you watching Robinson!

I thought you would know the answer to that.