General The Role of OxVox

[Scotchegg]

I would normally rush to ridicule Charlie and every patronising, slimy word he posts - but even when everything looks so incredibly positive, scrutiny is important and Oxvox are in the best position to ensure that happens.

I believe that our board have the best interests of the club at heart, and in NMcW we have a genuine unsung hero who is our fan on the inside. But the fine details are incredibly important and we need to ensure that mistakes of the past aren't repeated in the future.

Oxvox have been quieter than I would have liked, and whilst I completely respect the confidentiality elements regarding the takeover and stadium business, I would have liked to have seen them openly questioning the mistakes made in the season ticket sales, the generally poor marketing throughout the closed season, and much of the communication from the club over the last 6 months or more. I hope that now the ownership and board structure is clear we can yet again develop the constant dialogue between those at the very top of our club, and us the fans.

 

[horseman]

We have welcomed players and Managers back before, one who even ended up at our arch rivals before returning but we understood the path that was taken and why.

I do though find it odd that having left us for pastures new that the moment some positive news surrounds us, we are seeing the dialogue again and straight on the attack. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but why again the sudden interest and why now. !

Whether valid points will be made or not, I for one will struggle to take notice and whilst i can get on with anyone from all walks of life this is a hard one to swallow and it just doesn't sit right.

Sorry for feeling that way.

 

[Essexyellows]

OxVox are providing regular updates and doing exactly what they were set up to do - being a "critical friend representing the supporters".

There is no need for "daily news" this is a long game - until the current agreement runs out.

I`m more than certain they will ask the pertinent questions at the right time.

If nothing else - join them NOW.

Join OxVox | OxVox

 

[BelgOx]

I would normally rush to ridicule Charlie and every patronising, slimy word he posts - but even when everything looks so incredibly positive, scrutiny is important and Oxvox are in the best position to ensure that happens.

I believe that our board have the best interests of the club at heart, and in NMcW we have a genuine unsung hero who is our fan on the inside. But the fine details are incredibly important and we need to ensure that mistakes of the past aren't repeated in the future.

Oxvox have been quieter than I would have liked, and whilst I completely respect the confidentiality elements regarding the takeover and stadium business, I would have liked to have seen them openly questioning the mistakes made in the season ticket sales, the generally poor marketing throughout the closed season, and much of the communication from the club over the last 6 months or more. I hope that now the ownership and board structure is clear we can yet again develop the constant dialogue between those at the very top of our club, and us the fans.

I agree with the sentiment that OxVox have been far too quiet. What I have never understood about the takeover situation is that there was publicly-available information regarding shareholdings which was never reported by OxVox. I find that strange because that's clearly not commercially-confidential information as it's in the public domain.

With the arrangements for the stadium, OxVox has to be completely transparent about what is being proposed by the club and not be afraid to ask the difficult questions in public. The fans need to see what is being asked and what the responses are. To be honest, I also think it would be useful if the club were to hold a fans forum to set out their vision for where they see the club going, how they plan to get there, what the headline plans for the stadium are etc etc

 

[werthersoriginal]

Ignoring all the waffle about green credentials and other sports teams, looks like it boils down to two parts.
Key objectives of the proposal made to the County Council include:
· that the new football stadium will be an asset of Oxford United Football Club to support the future growth and future plans of the club, both on and off the pitch;
· the new football stadium is to remain in control of the club and is not to be separated in the future;
· legal protections will be included to confirm that the football stadium will remain part of the club.

9.What other supporting facilities are proposed?
The final answer to this is subject to a detailed feasibility study, design work and full public consultation and planning permission. The aspirations are for a fan zone, conferencing and exhibition facilities in the stadium, a boutique business hotel and community sports facilities. There have been discussions about including a multi-functional indoor arena space and a high quality wellness/health retreat, but the final designs are all subject to further analysis and exploration. The community stadium is the anchor for the eco park, but it will require some enabling development to help fund the scheme and provide a destination that Oxfordshire can be proud of.

So if I understand it, club owns stadium on long term 250 year lease.
PropCo owns the "other supporting facilities".

Was there a part 2 to the FAQ? as it seems to be FAQ, FAQ1 and FAQ3?
BelgOx raises some good questions which aren't explicitly answered in the FAQs which are at present just intentions, and of course can be changed.

The proposals sound great, but the deal isn’t signed yet, and we all need to stay vigilant and make sure this is how it ends up.

 

[Orkney Islands Yellow]

This is the situation which must be avoided at all costs. The broad brush questions which need to be answered before we get much further with this project are:

- How will the stadium build be funded?
- If borrowing is required, where will liability for that debt sit?
- Who will own the stadium? (Clearly, there are complexities here as the overall site is to be leased from County)
- What will the financial demands be on the club in terms of rent and service charges?
- What will be the financial benefits for the club in terms of income from sponsorship, food & beverage, and other matchday revenues?
- What guarantees will there be in place to protect the club from punitive rent increases in the event of ownership changes?

None of this is actually commercially confidential and absolutely needs to be communicated to fans BEFORE they are encouraged to campaign in support of a formal planning application. As the OP says, this is the sort of thing OxVox exists for. It's simply not enough to say "We're asking the questions"; the questions and answers need to be out there in public.

Also the new stadium website has even more information: https://oufcstadium.co.uk/

 

[Colin B]

Some interesting points, and some of them from interesting posters.

I think the general sentiment of Charlie's opening post is probably well intended, but he was never going to be given an easy return to the forum, which I'm sure he's aware of. I think it's important to consider what's said, rather than who said it, in this instance. My take on what Charlie is saying is that there have been no red flags with regards to our ownership, nor the stadium project (something I agree with btw) but that we should still be vigilant through the process, as we've been burned once before. I'd call that common sense, and if posted by someone else it wouldn't have caused any furore.

I'm not sure about BelgOx, whoever he/she may be, as they've popped out of nowhere with a bit of a scaremongering tone. Again, some valid questions, but it all seems a bit of an agenda to me from someone who's never posted before. Be interesting to see how he/she continues before passing judgement.

Both posters mention OxVox and their role, or lack of, in the club ownership situation and stadium development. Since resigning as Chairman four years ago I've kept my counsel regarding OxVox, but have noticed, during that time, many people saying where are they and what are they doing? That's for them to respond to, and they do read this forum. Maybe they don't know as much as people think? Or maybe they don't/can't share it with their members?

One thing I can answer with clarity is the issue of share ownership in the holding company. As mentioned above, it is publicly available, through the Singapore version of Companies House, although you have to know what you're doing, and it's not free, it costs about £3.50 each time you search. I know this as I first did it while still OxVox Chairman, and have checked it periodically since that time. Why OxVox have not done the same, and reported it back to their members seems odd to me, as it's not like they can't afford to spend £3.50 out of the £10,000+ they have in their bank account every month or two? I'm sure it would have been useful in stopping the endless questions regarding the "takeover" and is exactly what a supporters trust should be doing isn't it?

 

[BelgOx]

Some interesting points, and some of them from interesting posters.

I think the general sentiment of Charlie's opening post is probably well intended, but he was never going to be given an easy return to the forum, which I'm sure he's aware of. I think it's important to consider what's said, rather than who said it, in this instance. My take on what Charlie is saying is that there have been no red flags with regards to our ownership, nor the stadium project (something I agree with btw) but that we should still be vigilant through the process, as we've been burned once before. I'd call that common sense, and if posted by someone else it wouldn't have caused any furore.

I'm not sure about BelgOx, whoever he/she may be, as they've popped out of nowhere with a bit of a scaremongering tone. Again, some valid questions, but it all seems a bit of an agenda to me from someone who's never posted before. Be interesting to see how he/she continues before passing judgement.

I'm sorry that you feel my tone is scaremongering. As you say, we've been burned before and it's common sense to make sure that the right questions are being asked. Again, I have no concerns about Bakrie and Thohir being able to deliver on this project, but we simply can't totally take on trust what they say because that approach got us into our current situation. We simply cannot afford to get this wrong.

Both posters mention OxVox and their role, or lack of, in the club ownership situation and stadium development. Since resigning as Chairman four years ago I've kept my counsel regarding OxVox, but have noticed, during that time, many people saying where are they and what are they doing? That's for them to respond to, and they do read this forum. Maybe they don't know as much as people think? Or maybe they don't/can't share it with their members?

One thing I can answer with clarity is the issue of share ownership in the holding company. As mentioned above, it is publicly available, through the Singapore version of Companies House, although you have to know what you're doing, and it's not free, it costs about £3.50 each time you search. I know this as I first did it while still OxVox Chairman, and have checked it periodically since that time. Why OxVox have not done the same, and reported it back to their members seems odd to me, as it's not like they can't afford to spend £3.50 out of the £10,000+ they have in their bank account every month or two? I'm sure it would have been useful in stopping the endless questions regarding the "takeover" and is exactly what a supporters trust should be doing isn't it?

Completely agree with this. Club ownership and long-term stability of the club are the raison d'etre for a supporters' trust. Now the ownership issue has been sorted, there's not much point in raking over old ground, but OxVox has to be much more visible and transparent with the stadium situation. But when they issue an email less than 24 hours before the club AGM asking for any questions, and don't seem to be able to arrange their own AGM either, one starts to worry.

 

[Manorlounger]

I'm sorry that you feel my tone is scaremongering. As you say, we've been burned before and it's common sense to make sure that the right questions are being asked. Again, I have no concerns about Bakrie and Thohir being able to deliver on this project, but we simply can't totally take on trust what they say because that approach got us into our current situation. We simply cannot afford to get this wrong.

"I have no concerns about Bakrie and Thohir being able to deliver on this project, but we simply can't totally take on trust what they say"

You have no concerns but, you don't trust them? Care to expand?

 

[BelgOx]

"I have no concerns about Bakrie and Thohir being able to deliver on this project, but we simply can't totally take on trust what they say"

You have no concerns but, you don't trust them? Care to expand?

The context in which that is written makes it self-evident, surely? I mean, you simply have to read the rest of the sentence you have partially quoted.

It's not a question of having doubts about them as individual people, you simply just don't go into a multi-million-pound deal which has a generational impact on the club without getting some pretty cast iron guarantees. Be honest, and without the benefit of hindsight, how many people didn't simply take Kassam at his word when he said the leisure park would be used to fund the club? Very few. And that's why we absolutely need to get clarity on what is being proposed.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

The size of their wealth doesn't mean that they are going to altruistically build us a stadium, let us play there rent-free, and keep all the revenues. It would be amazing if that were to happen, but it's highly unlikely. That's why it's important to find out exactly how it is to be funded.

Do you know that DC United borrowed over $120m to help fund their share of the stadium build? Do you know that the site is owned by the equivalent of the local authority and it is to them that they pay rent? Do you know that in addition to the headline rent, there is also a process by which they have to pay an additional rent based on every ticket sold?

I'm not in any way saying that Bakrie and Thohir are in any way the wrong people or don't have the money and experience to be doing this. As far as I can see, they absolutely are. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask the questions to find out EXACTLY what the position for the club is going to be in all this. As a fan base, we were here 20-odd years ago and got it badly wrong. We can't afford to do that again.

My take on it since day one has always been: “If we can pay a single penny less than we currently pay, to play in a proper and finished stadium, and can generate just one penny more in revenue, it’s better than what we have now.” That is the bar. It is so, so low.

I’m optimistic that it will be much more favourable than that, in terms of how much we pay and how much we can generate from the stadium facilities compared to our current situation, but the scenario we are currently in is so dire that, in my opinion, the club is already dead unless we get out. Which in a really weird way makes me quite relaxed.

That said, obviously there is a huge difference between being relaxed and being careless. It matters and we do need to know the detail to some extent - I’m not for one second saying we shouldn’t care or be interested.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I agree that we need to keep an eye on what is happening (so far as is possible), and I agree that OxVox (yes I am a member) need to represent us in this. On the other hand, as RB says, we are in the position of holding on at the edge of a cliff and asking about the cleanliness of the hand reaching down to save us! If this doesn't happen then we will be AFC Oxford, playing on a local rec.

 

[SupporttheTriangle]

This is the situation which must be avoided at all costs. The broad brush questions which need to be answered before we get much further with this project are:

- How will the stadium build be funded?
- If borrowing is required, where will liability for that debt sit?
- Who will own the stadium? (Clearly, there are complexities here as the overall site is to be leased from County)
- What will the financial demands be on the club in terms of rent and service charges?
- What will be the financial benefits for the club in terms of income from sponsorship, food & beverage, and other matchday revenues?
- What guarantees will there be in place to protect the club from punitive rent increases in the event of ownership changes?

None of this is actually commercially confidential and absolutely needs to be communicated to fans BEFORE they are encouraged to campaign in support of a formal planning application. As the OP says, this is the sort of thing OxVox exists for. It's simply not enough to say "We're asking the questions"; the questions and answers need to be out there in public.

Having read through this post, if I didn’t know better I would believe that the poster was an undercover agent for FofSB. I of course know different, but these are the sort of questions those who oppose the stadium move are using to their advantage.

 

[m]

Having read through this post, if I didn’t know better I would believe that the poster was an undercover agent for FofSB. I of course know different, but these are the sort of questions those who oppose the stadium move are using to their advantage.

Then they are questions which will have to be answered!

 

[BelgOx]

Then they are questions which will have to be answered!

Quite. Questions can't be used to someone's advantage - only the answers, or lack thereof. Being open and honest, and clearly setting out the benefits to the club and the community can only help win the argument with those who may be siding against the development.

 

[BelgOx]

I agree that we need to keep an eye on what is happening (so far as is possible), and I agree that OxVox (yes I am a member) need to represent us in this. On the other hand, as RB says, we are in the position of holding on at the edge of a cliff and asking about the cleanliness of the hand reaching down to save us! If this doesn't happen then we will be AFC Oxford, playing on a local rec.

We were much closer to the brink last time, didn't ask about hand hygiene, and look where that got us...

 

[unification]

OxVox asked for questions on Monday via email from members. They were in attendance at the club's AGM on Tuesday and met with Grant Ferguson on Wednesday. Their own AGM is on 8th October.

I know in the age of instant messaging and rolling news we want to hear more or the time, but let's cut them some slack. They're made up of volunteers who have job and other commitments. They're asking the questions as and when they can. I'm sure the minutes and/or summaries of their conversations will be in the public domain soon.

The stadium development is still in its infancy. We only know a fraction of what's occurred so far. The finance questions are good ones, but there's not much use getting in a tizz over them at this moment in time. There's a long way to go and I'm sure that they will be asked.

Just theorising, I imagine that the board's collective wealth will see the stadium built and they'll look to reclaim their profit from whatever developments go with it (ice rink, hotel, commercial space). I too would be uneasy if that level of debt is hoisted entirely on the club and not themselves.

 

[SupporttheTriangle]

Then they are questions which will have to be answered!

They have in some ways and will be in full before planning is approved I’m sure. Let’s have some faith as I believe this is not another Kassam moment.

 

[Essexyellows]

Until the "nuts & bolts" of the planning are resolved nobody is going anywhere.

I will take a wild guess (hope!!) that a lot of the groundwork is being done in the background.

Palms being pressed and wheels being oiled as is the way of these things, then, once a majority of support is onboard, the project in all its glory launches.

 

[Manorlounger]

The context in which that is written makes it self-evident, surely? I mean, you simply have to read the rest of the sentence you have partially quoted.

It's not a question of having doubts about them as individual people, you simply just don't go into a multi-million-pound deal which has a generational impact on the club without getting some pretty cast iron guarantees. Be honest, and without the benefit of hindsight, how many people didn't simply take Kassam at his word when he said the leisure park would be used to fund the club? Very few. And that's why we absolutely need to get clarity on what is being proposed.

So, if I understand you correctly, you want, insist, upon iron clad guarantees that the new owners will fund the club, the stadium and further, add future proof guarantees that for generations to come, they will continue to fund or, at the very least, ensure that the club continues to exist?

That they, the current owners, have provided funding for the club (including all the teams), the training ground and, have covered all the operational costs for the last four years, has either passed you by, or has failed to convince you that they are serious players?

As for the clarity you talk about, much has been clarified already. The FAQs have spelled out the broad aims of the board/current owners and they include leasing the stadium to the club for 250 years among other measures to assure that the club will retain the benefits of the stadium.