General The Role of OxVox

Lundinsponytail

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First of all, really good news to have clarity over the ownership and direction of the club. There has been palpable drift over the last year or so as the negotiations as to who would be the controlling shareholder have clearly taken longer than expected.
But now the clouds have parted, and we have the opportunity to spy - at last - a sunny future for our club.
But the moment of most promise is also the moment of maximal jeopardy - ie things can go badly wrong as well as right.
Nearly 25 years ago, I was a 22 year-old season ticket holder in the London Road when a new owner promised us a great future. According to this man I was to spend my 20s, 30s and 40s watching a revitalized OUFC playing top 2 tier football in a modern stadium, with other facilities providing the cash to power us back up the leagues (it was then only 10 years since we had been in the top flight).
We needn't rehearse what happened next. But it is worth revisiting WHY it all went wrong. Basically, the City Council were hopelessly naive, and the Fans groups who had come together to save the club- SOUS/FOUL etc were so relieved that we werent going to be rattling buckets any longer that we took it on trust that everybody could be trusted to act in the best long-term interests of the club.
So we missed our moment of maximum.leverage (the planning process) and indeed almost encouraged the council to bend over forwards.
Two years later, the horrible truth had emerged and a group of fans met in the Catherine Wheel for an inaugural committee meeting of OxVox (I may be garbling the precise dates), part of the new Supporters Trust movement intended to safeguard the long-term interests of clubs against the naturally more short-term motives of owners and 3rd parties.
In short, OxVox was created and designed for precisely this moment. A moment when the next 25 years of our club will likely be determined.
This is absolutely not to say that our present owners have the same malign intent as OBG. But it is to say that there are a number of ways in which the new stadium project can be financially-designed.
It is OxVox's job to act transparently and publicly on behalf of the fans present and future, and fight for the best deal possible for the club.
In recent years there has been a slight tendency towards private, behind-the-scenes cosy un-minuted chats between Trust and club officials. I humbly submit that that needs to stop, as does the weird catch-all of 'commercial confidentiality' to explain why fans are being kept in the dark. After all, it was doubtless commercially confidential when Kassam was planning the rape of our club all those years ago that led to so much misery.
To repeat, this is not at all to impugn the motives of Thohir and Bakrie. It is simply a plea to learn the lessons of history and to avoid us being the insane man continuing to do the same thing whilst expecting a different outcome.
 
First of all, really good news to have clarity over the ownership and direction of the club. There has been palpable drift over the last year or so as the negotiations as to who would be the controlling shareholder have clearly taken longer than expected.
But now the clouds have parted, and we have the opportunity to spy - at last - a sunny future for our club.
But the moment of most promise is also the moment of maximal jeopardy - ie things can go badly wrong as well as right.
Nearly 25 years ago, I was a 22 year-old season ticket holder in the London Road when a new owner promised us a great future. According to this man I was to spend my 20s, 30s and 40s watching a revitalized OUFC playing top 2 tier football in a modern stadium, with other facilities providing the cash to power us back up the leagues (it was then only 10 years since we had been in the top flight).
We needn't rehearse what happened next. But it is worth revisiting WHY it all went wrong. Basically, the City Council were hopelessly naive, and the Fans groups who had come together to save the club- SOUS/FOUL etc were so relieved that we werent going to be rattling buckets any longer that we took it on trust that everybody could be trusted to act in the best long-term interests of the club.
So we missed our moment of maximum.leverage (the planning process) and indeed almost encouraged the council to bend over forwards.
Two years later, the horrible truth had emerged and a group of fans met in the Catherine Wheel for an inaugural committee meeting of OxVox (I may be garbling the precise dates), part of the new Supporters Trust movement intended to safeguard the long-term interests of clubs against the naturally more short-term motives of owners and 3rd parties.
In short, OxVox was created and designed for precisely this moment. A moment when the next 25 years of our club will likely be determined.
This is absolutely not to say that our present owners have the same malign intent as OBG. But it is to say that there are a number of ways in which the new stadium project can be financially-designed.
It is OxVox's job to act transparently and publicly on behalf of the fans present and future, and fight for the best deal possible for the club.
In recent years there has been a slight tendency towards private, behind-the-scenes cosy un-minuted chats between Trust and club officials. I humbly submit that that needs to stop, as does the weird catch-all of 'commercial confidentiality' to explain why fans are being kept in the dark. After all, it was doubtless commercially confidential when Kassam was planning the rape of our club all those years ago that led to so much misery.
To repeat, this is not at all to impugn the motives of Thohir and Bakrie. It is simply a plea to learn the lessons of history and to avoid us being the insane man continuing to do the same thing whilst expecting a different outcome.
And you would know all about underhand, scurrilous wheeler dealing, wouldn't you Charlie.
In fact, there's an idea, you could offer your services as a consultant.
 
Oxvox do seem to have had their role as an all encompassing official fans' group to the "boring" high level stuff on ownership which is pretty much out of their control. The Supporters' Panel seems to have taken the day-to-day exciting stuff of the match day experience.

Anyway, this all seems to boil down to the new stadium, and who benefits the most from it. Ideally we would want a club owned stadium where the additional revenues from the ancillaries such as food and drink, hotels, conferences etc subsidise the football team.
However a stadium won't build itself, and this isn't a situation like the US where there are huge spaces of land where the local authority will pay for the stadium.
So we currently have lot of different parties.
OUFC as a football club, now majority owned by the two Indonesians together.
Oxford Investments (Singapore) Limited - the holding company for OUFC
Oxford Park Developments Limited, which has some common Directors with Oxford Investments (Singapore) Limited, but not the Thais. Presumably the entity that will build and own a new ground.
Firoka (Oxford United Stadium) Limited - Kassam owned, with a license agreement with OUFC which the club says it cannot renew - but the site and surroundings is presumably "developable"?
and the Kidlington CAVE people - citizens against virtually everything.

Key risk is that we end up in exactly the same position we are now, but in Kidlington, renting a stadium that someone else owns, with the possibility that the football club gets sold off time and again to someone who can't afford it, whilst the ancillary revenues stay with the stadium owners.
 
Key risk is that we end up in exactly the same position we are now, but in Kidlington, renting a stadium that someone else owns, with the possibility that the football club gets sold off time and again to someone who can't afford it, whilst the ancillary revenues stay with the stadium owners.
This is the situation which must be avoided at all costs. The broad brush questions which need to be answered before we get much further with this project are:

- How will the stadium build be funded?
- If borrowing is required, where will liability for that debt sit?
- Who will own the stadium? (Clearly, there are complexities here as the overall site is to be leased from County)
- What will the financial demands be on the club in terms of rent and service charges?
- What will be the financial benefits for the club in terms of income from sponsorship, food & beverage, and other matchday revenues?
- What guarantees will there be in place to protect the club from punitive rent increases in the event of ownership changes?

None of this is actually commercially confidential and absolutely needs to be communicated to fans BEFORE they are encouraged to campaign in support of a formal planning application. As the OP says, this is the sort of thing OxVox exists for. It's simply not enough to say "We're asking the questions"; the questions and answers need to be out there in public.
 
This is the situation which must be avoided at all costs. The broad brush questions which need to be answered before we get much further with this project are:

- How will the stadium build be funded?
- If borrowing is required, where will liability for that debt sit?
- Who will own the stadium? (Clearly, there are complexities here as the overall site is to be leased from County)
- What will the financial demands be on the club in terms of rent and service charges?
- What will be the financial benefits for the club in terms of income from sponsorship, food & beverage, and other matchday revenues?
- What guarantees will there be in place to protect the club from punitive rent increases in the event of ownership changes?

None of this is actually commercially confidential and absolutely needs to be communicated to fans BEFORE they are encouraged to campaign in support of a formal planning application. As the OP says, this is the sort of thing OxVox exists for. It's simply not enough to say "We're asking the questions"; the questions and answers need to be out there in public.
I don't wish to come across as patronising but, this has all been covered, over and over again. Why anyone can still wish to raise doubts over the stadium project is beyond me. Please read the below posts from the OUFC website.


 
Just what everyone needs Salmonpants is back. :rolleyes:

🎶No-one like you, no-one likes you, no-one likes you we don`t care............. now f**k off. 🎶

OxVox are doing exactly what they were set up to do and, if the members don`t like it, they can vote them out and/or stand alternative candidates.

We should be more concerned about unelected quango`s or cabels that "got the job" because they were the only applicants and may have an unhealthy chunk of the clubs "ear". Start on them and we might listen, if not go and try and scrape another comedy mini-series.
 
I don't wish to come across as patronising but, this has all been covered, over and over again. Why anyone can still wish to raise doubts over the stadium project is beyond me. Please read the below posts from the OUFC website.


Thanks for flagging those up. However, the only one of my questions answered there is the ownership point. There is absolutely nothing there about the finances.

You may not understand why people still have questions, but we have lived for the past 21 years with the result of getting it wrong last time around. We are lucky to get the chance to put it right, and it seems sensible to me for people to be absolutely clear on what they are being asked to sign up to.
 
I don't wish to come across as patronising but, this has all been covered, over and over again. Why anyone can still wish to raise doubts over the stadium project is beyond me. Please read the below posts from the OUFC website.


Ignoring all the waffle about green credentials and other sports teams, looks like it boils down to two parts.
Key objectives of the proposal made to the County Council include:
· that the new football stadium will be an asset of Oxford United Football Club to support the future growth and future plans of the club, both on and off the pitch;
· the new football stadium is to remain in control of the club and is not to be separated in the future;
· legal protections will be included to confirm that the football stadium will remain part of the club.

9.What other supporting facilities are proposed?
The final answer to this is subject to a detailed feasibility study, design work and full public consultation and planning permission. The aspirations are for a fan zone, conferencing and exhibition facilities in the stadium, a boutique business hotel and community sports facilities. There have been discussions about including a multi-functional indoor arena space and a high quality wellness/health retreat, but the final designs are all subject to further analysis and exploration. The community stadium is the anchor for the eco park, but it will require some enabling development to help fund the scheme and provide a destination that Oxfordshire can be proud of.

So if I understand it, club owns stadium on long term 250 year lease.
PropCo owns the "other supporting facilities".

Was there a part 2 to the FAQ? as it seems to be FAQ, FAQ1 and FAQ3?
BelgOx raises some good questions which aren't explicitly answered in the FAQs which are at present just intentions, and of course can be changed.
 
Ignoring all the waffle about green credentials and other sports teams, looks like it boils down to two parts.
Key objectives of the proposal made to the County Council include:
· that the new football stadium will be an asset of Oxford United Football Club to support the future growth and future plans of the club, both on and off the pitch;
· the new football stadium is to remain in control of the club and is not to be separated in the future;
· legal protections will be included to confirm that the football stadium will remain part of the club.

9.What other supporting facilities are proposed?
The final answer to this is subject to a detailed feasibility study, design work and full public consultation and planning permission. The aspirations are for a fan zone, conferencing and exhibition facilities in the stadium, a boutique business hotel and community sports facilities. There have been discussions about including a multi-functional indoor arena space and a high quality wellness/health retreat, but the final designs are all subject to further analysis and exploration. The community stadium is the anchor for the eco park, but it will require some enabling development to help fund the scheme and provide a destination that Oxfordshire can be proud of.

So if I understand it, club owns stadium on long term 250 year lease.
PropCo owns the "other supporting facilities".

Was there a part 2 to the FAQ? as it seems to be FAQ, FAQ1 and FAQ3?
BelgOx raises some good questions which aren't explicitly answered in the FAQs which are at present just intentions, and of course can be changed.
No FAQ 2 to be found on the club website.
 
I am not quite sure why the OP isnt taken a little more seriously
This is a HUGE moment for the club and Oxvox do need to ask questions/ scrutinise the agreement.
The FAQs have been good but the devil will be in the detail
 
I am not quite sure why the OP isnt taken a little more seriously
This is a HUGE moment for the club and Oxvox do need to ask questions/ scrutinise the agreement.
The FAQs have been good but the devil will be in the detail

Because he is a pompous, over bearing knob who rides peoples coat tails for fun?
 
I am not quite sure why the OP isnt taken a little more seriously
This is a HUGE moment for the club and Oxvox do need to ask questions/ scrutinise the agreement.
The FAQs have been good but the devil will be in the detail
Watch Sunderland till I die then you will realise just what the OP is really like.
The guy is a fraud and a patronising one at that.

Put any bets on this season Charlie?
 
Thanks for flagging those up. However, the only one of my questions answered there is the ownership point. There is absolutely nothing there about the finances.

You may not understand why people still have questions, but we have lived for the past 21 years with the result of getting it wrong last time around. We are lucky to get the chance to put it right, and it seems sensible to me for people to be absolutely clear on what they are being asked to sign up to.
Do you not know of their financial worth? Do you not know what stadium DC pay in rent to Thohir?
 
Do you not know of their financial worth? Do you not know what stadium DC pay in rent to Thohir?
The size of their wealth doesn't mean that they are going to altruistically build us a stadium, let us play there rent-free, and keep all the revenues. It would be amazing if that were to happen, but it's highly unlikely. That's why it's important to find out exactly how it is to be funded.

Do you know that DC United borrowed over $120m to help fund their share of the stadium build? Do you know that the site is owned by the equivalent of the local authority and it is to them that they pay rent? Do you know that in addition to the headline rent, there is also a process by which they have to pay an additional rent based on every ticket sold?

I'm not in any way saying that Bakrie and Thohir are in any way the wrong people or don't have the money and experience to be doing this. As far as I can see, they absolutely are. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask the questions to find out EXACTLY what the position for the club is going to be in all this. As a fan base, we were here 20-odd years ago and got it badly wrong. We can't afford to do that again.
 
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